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Prospect Thread: James Wiseman

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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#361 » by yosemiteben » Thu Oct 1, 2020 1:14 pm

SWedd523 wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:I could be wrong, but it seems like many on this board who are big fans of Wiseman are using his lack of games as a strength. His lack of games leaves a ton of question marks in his game and gives more room for speculation.

With all this room for speculation many seem to think he can shoot, handle the ball away from the basket, pass etc...

It’s as if because there is not enough tape of him “not” doing these things it leaves the door open that he can. Versus a guy who has a ton of tape we have a stronger understanding of their strengths and weaknesses and it’s easier to place limits on their potential.


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I think too many people are anti-Wiseman via looking through a vacuum and conveniently forgetting or ignoring the aircraft carrier sized holes in every other prospect's game. There's a reason why this is considered a weak draft with no clear top one or even top 3 players.

"I won't draft Wiseman because he's not Jokic on offense"

Is his lack of generational offensive talent really cause to put him behind Lonzo "Michael Carter Williams" Ball, Anthony "Needs a Lobotomy" Edwards, Obi "No Neck, No Hips" Toppin, and so on?

I believe this is what is referred to as a strawman.

I've tried to take the time to explain my take and even to point to multiple articles explaining it. Posts like this make it seem like it was a waste of time.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#362 » by SWedd523 » Thu Oct 1, 2020 1:36 pm

Not too much of a waste of time to continue replying to it, though?
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#363 » by yosemiteben » Thu Oct 1, 2020 2:45 pm

SWedd523 wrote:Not too much of a waste of time to continue replying to it, though?

Not sure what that means. I think you are mischaracterizing my posts and arguments and I suppose I thought if I pointed it out you might acknowledge or have some sort of productive analysis or response.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#364 » by DY_nasty » Thu Oct 1, 2020 3:17 pm

SWedd523 wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:I could be wrong, but it seems like many on this board who are big fans of Wiseman are using his lack of games as a strength. His lack of games leaves a ton of question marks in his game and gives more room for speculation.

With all this room for speculation many seem to think he can shoot, handle the ball away from the basket, pass etc...

It’s as if because there is not enough tape of him “not” doing these things it leaves the door open that he can. Versus a guy who has a ton of tape we have a stronger understanding of their strengths and weaknesses and it’s easier to place limits on their potential.


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I think too many people are anti-Wiseman via looking through a vacuum and conveniently forgetting or ignoring the aircraft carrier sized holes in every other prospect's game. There's a reason why this is considered a weak draft with no clear top one or even top 3 players.

"I won't draft Wiseman because he's not Jokic on offense"

Is his lack of generational offensive talent really cause to put him behind Lonzo "Michael Carter Williams" Ball, Anthony "Needs a Lobotomy" Edwards, Obi "No Neck, No Hips" Toppin, and so on?

I'm just saying

I want to see the same energy kept up across the board. I'm not even a big fan of Wiseman or any of these guys really.... but we're talking about decision making from a 19 year old center when Anthony Edwards can't even be left alone and unattended in Georgia :lol:

People were big upping LaMelo as an elite athlete when he's not even as gifted athletically as his brother
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#365 » by BigSlam » Thu Oct 1, 2020 3:56 pm

If people are understandably wary of Wiseman because he played so few college games, can’t the same/similar be said about Ball - because not only did Ball play zero college games, but didn’t he only play about a dozen games in the NBL - which is only about 10 more games than Wiseman?
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#366 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Thu Oct 1, 2020 4:09 pm

Wary of both personally.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#367 » by yosemiteben » Thu Oct 1, 2020 4:43 pm

I don't really get the constant comparisons to Ball in terms of severity of criticism. Like 90% of the people on here (myself included) are on record saying steer clear.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#368 » by SWedd523 » Thu Oct 1, 2020 7:27 pm

DY_nasty wrote:I'm just saying

I want to see the same energy kept up across the board.


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Bro, yes.

That's all I'm asking for.

So much energy being devoted to finding reasons to not like one guy while the rest just get the whatever treatment.

They ALL have warts. Bigguns.

But I don't see the fervor when it comes to the other guys. I have to wonder why
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#369 » by BigSlam » Thu Oct 1, 2020 8:55 pm

yosemiteben wrote:I don't really get the constant comparisons to Ball in terms of severity of criticism. Like 90% of the people on here (myself included) are on record saying steer clear.

It’s not constant (at least from me) but I am wondering why some aren’t applying the same set of criteria to all prospects and are being hypocritical.


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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#370 » by cornchip » Thu Oct 1, 2020 9:09 pm

I just think we've all been "prisoners of the moment" and that's why there has been so much volatility with Wiseman.

A 6'9 guy just isn't 7 ft guy no matter what and there's a difference when they can both play...but small ball is a legitimate trend. I think after the season ends everybody can look at Wiseman more objectively.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#371 » by James Gatz » Thu Oct 1, 2020 10:07 pm

SWedd523 wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:I'm just saying

I want to see the same energy kept up across the board.


Bro, yes.

That's all I'm asking for.

So much energy being devoted to finding reasons to not like one guy while the rest just get the whatever treatment.

They ALL have warts. Bigguns.

But I don't see the fervor when it comes to the other guys. I have to wonder why


Are these comments directed towards me? It's known I'm low on Wiseman and high on Ball. That being said, I've always been upfront that Ball has plenty of flaws in his game. My opinion remains the same that the upside for Ball is much higher than upside for Wiseman. The floor for Wiseman is higher than the floor for Ball.

On a team bereft of top end talent I'd be willing to gamble our pick on any player with the highest perceived upside.

It's fine to disagree. We're just talking sports after all. It is lame when choose not to engage in the discussion and just use a :lol: emoji because you don't want to consider an opposite opinion.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#372 » by SWedd523 » Thu Oct 1, 2020 10:46 pm

Not directed towards you at all. Don't even think I've quoted you or used that emoji regarding disagreements on prospects.

Are you thinking of someone else?
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#373 » by yosemiteben » Fri Oct 2, 2020 12:00 am

FWIW I'll take Wiseman over Ball and probably Edwards 10 out of 10 times.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#374 » by amcoolio » Fri Oct 2, 2020 1:46 am

SWedd523 wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:I'm just saying

I want to see the same energy kept up across the board.


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Bro, yes.

That's all I'm asking for.

So much energy being devoted to finding reasons to not like one guy while the rest just get the whatever treatment.

They ALL have warts. Bigguns.

But I don't see the fervor when it comes to the other guys. I have to wonder why


The other two top 3 prospects threads are full of the same fervor...

I guess you guys are bewildered by the "he's a center so don't draft him" trope, but for me drafting a center that high he has to be able to do things besides rebound and defend the rim...its like the running back position of the NBA draft... Wiseman is Leonard Fournette. Useful? Of course, but with his limitations how much will it really make us better to be worth a top 3 pick?
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#375 » by Diop » Fri Oct 2, 2020 2:00 am

amcoolio wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:I'm just saying

I want to see the same energy kept up across the board.


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Bro, yes.

That's all I'm asking for.

So much energy being devoted to finding reasons to not like one guy while the rest just get the whatever treatment.

They ALL have warts. Bigguns.

But I don't see the fervor when it comes to the other guys. I have to wonder why


The other two top 3 prospects threads are full of the same fervor...

I guess you guys are bewildered by the "he's a center so don't draft him" trope, but for me drafting a center that high he has to be able to do things besides rebound and defend the rim...its like the running back position of the NBA draft... Wiseman is Leonard Fournette. Useful? Of course, but with his limitations how much will it really make us better to be worth a top 3 pick?

I get what you’re saying but unless we know the other projects aren’t going to be mediocre, then a centre is definitely in the mix
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#376 » by Rays Pompadour » Fri Oct 2, 2020 3:13 am

I've advocated for the Hornets to draft Wiseman for several reasons which we can happily debate. The one big negative that I noted (to myself) in watching the mix tape is Wiseman's lack of lower body strength and lack of technique in rebounding. He gets his hips pushed out too easily and that makes him reach instead of moving toward the rebound. Young bigs like him almost always struggle with rebounding because they're so used to just towering over people. That just isn't so in the NBA where everybody's big and long and athletic. The best rebounders also have a strong desire to dominate the boards, which I don't currently see in Wiseman.

The rebounding deficiencies will get better in time as he enters an NBA conditioning program and receives specialized coaching, but to my eyes it's a real red flag. I still like him as a prospect, though, even at #3.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#377 » by JMAC3 » Sat Oct 3, 2020 3:49 am

MugzZo wrote:
BigSlam wrote:TBH I don’t see the Wiseman to Drummond comparison.

Drummond is a lumbering, heavy footed dude who lives in the paint in both ends.

Wiseman appears to be a really mobile, agile fleet footed dude - who might also have some range on his J.

I’m confused at why Drummond gets brought up when discussing Wiseman?

Same with guys like Whiteside - another toally different player to Wiseman who is often floated around when discussing Wiseman.


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I see Wiseman of a weird bosh/embiid/dj hybrid.


Posts like this is what makes me say people are living in a fantasy world with Wiseman.

We haven’t seen Wiseman do anything Embiid or Bosh could do.

This is essentially someone saying Edwards is a Wade/Harden/Oladipo hybrid. Which is another unrealistic combo.


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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#378 » by penquin11 » Sun Oct 4, 2020 11:54 pm

I want Wiseman because his athleticism and fluidity seems unreal. If he has a jumpshot- and reports say that he at least has good form on the shot- I could easily see him developing into a Chris Bosh type player over time (not that there is really any evidence to suggest that is who he will be out of the gates). I simply see him as the prospect with the highest ceiling in this years draft. Granted this is coming from the guy who thought Derrick Williams and Ben Mclemore were going to be the next big thing in their respective draft classes but yeah.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#379 » by Braggins » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:26 pm

I'll nitpick and say he needs to work more on lower body strength, but um...
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#380 » by LofJ » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:39 pm

Wiseman looking like young Dwight Howard.

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