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Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin

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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#21 » by MasterIchiro » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:32 am

Braggins wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:First surprise of the draft will be Hornets passing on Wiseman to pick Toppin.

You're the danged Joker of this forum.

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The top players on offense win the highest rewards as free agents. So if you want to build an offense through signings you have to spend big and be a prime destination.

The Hornets are short handed when it comes to acquisition of offense. So the draft has become the most cost-effective way to build an offense. You can always add defense via free agency and trade. It's much cheaper.

The Hornets finished last in offense and are not a prime free agency destination. So we have to draft it. We have to. No more MKG's. And I wouldn't draft a Trevor Ariza clone either.

That's why I think anyone advocating Okongwu over Toppin for this team are out of their freaking minds. I will admit Toppin is a tweener. But so was Miles and so is PJ to a lesser extent. Borrego advocates position-less basketball. Kupchak values versatility and college polish.

I can see Toppin in Hornets teal easily.
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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#22 » by SWedd523 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:43 am

MasterIchiro wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:I like what Obi does, and I feel like the force is strong with him, but I don't see a good enough fit with him and PJ.

He hasn't shown any real defensive ability and I'm worried that he'd be abused down low due to his lack of size


He will definitely get abused not unlike most rookies on defense until they learn team defense and add size to their often thin frames.

I think he has the motor and drive to improve on that end of the floor. He will need to bulk up something fierce. But again, that takes drive and commitment. The dude is highly competitive and super entertaining.

Hornets fans will love him.

First surprise of the draft will be Hornets passing on Wiseman to pick Toppin.

Well he's 22 so I kinda feel like he's behind the curve a bit as far as body development is concerned
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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#23 » by MasterIchiro » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:47 am

SWedd523 wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:I like what Obi does, and I feel like the force is strong with him, but I don't see a good enough fit with him and PJ.

He hasn't shown any real defensive ability and I'm worried that he'd be abused down low due to his lack of size


He will definitely get abused not unlike most rookies on defense until they learn team defense and add size to their often thin frames.

I think he has the motor and drive to improve on that end of the floor. He will need to bulk up something fierce. But again, that takes drive and commitment. The dude is highly competitive and super entertaining.

Hornets fans will love him.

First surprise of the draft will be Hornets passing on Wiseman to pick Toppin.

Well he's 22 so I kinda feel like he's behind the curve a bit as far as body development is concerned


I reached my peak weight at 26. Plenty of players in their early twenties are still filling out and learning weight training and bulking regimens from professional development staff. Toppin has so much natural talent. If he gains bulk to handle the paint then he won't lose a step or bounce because he is so athletic. He's also very skilled. He's coachable. He wants to be better.
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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#24 » by Braggins » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:48 am

I think he'll put up good numbers, but i get the feeling his impact will be worse than his numbers.

He doesnt seem like he'll create much of his own offense, but he can hit open shots and use his athleticism as a finisher very well. I think if you pair him with a good setup guy he'll get you lots of buckets, but he doesnt strike me as someone you'll be able to build your offense around.

When you factor in potentially awful defense, i think he runs the risk of being a bit of an empty calorie type player. Idk, i dont think hed necessarily be a bad pick, but hes not one of my top choices at this point.
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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#25 » by Braggins » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:58 am

DY_nasty wrote:
Braggins wrote:Toppin was a bad defender as a 22 year old freak athlete playing against Atlantic 10 competition. I think its a fairly safe bet that hes just going to be a bad defender.

His defense is consistently, inexcusably bad.

Never trust a top athlete who can't effect the defensive end on a regular basis.

Ya, the clips i saw of his defense were troubling. Someone like Miles Bridges might have some awareness issues and a little less lateral quickness than youd like that makes him a worse defender than youd expect from someone with his athleticism, but Toppin just looks awful.

He looked super awkward defending the perimeter and was getting easily blown by against weak competition and didnt seem to be a factor at all at the rim.
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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#26 » by MasterIchiro » Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:06 am

I think we all loved how PJ was a finisher from day one, a big with range who involves teammates. Without peaking, I'd guess Toppin was a better finisher and better three point shooter in college. The knock on PJ was ceiling. The dude looks like a future all-star. Also clueless on defense OFTEN. It won't always be that way. PJ will play more and more small center.

I don't think this draft has a franchise talent. I think Toppin may turn out to be the best player in it. Now this idea might depress some but he's super fun to watch. He's like a more athletic PJ who plays above the rim and runs the floor. If he can shoot like PJ and bulk up with him, they fit together. I think Miles - PJ and Toppin fit on the floor together, in today's game, 2 years from now but not 2 years ago. Teams are getting smaller, faster, better at shooting and passing, moving without the ball and playmaking. You buy defense cheap in free agency. You pay top dollar for Booker unless you draft offense. Toppin was the most efficient scorer in college and he played in an offense styled after the NBA.

Hornets were last in offense. Toppin all the way.

JB has his hands full on defense.
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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#27 » by driveandkick » Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:24 am

SWedd523 wrote:I like what Obi does, and I feel like the force is strong with him, but I don't see a good enough fit with him and PJ.

He hasn't shown any real defensive ability and I'm worried that he'd be abused down low due to his lack of size

This sums it up perfectly for me. Exciting player, I get why people are high on him, but PJ is a better prospect right now and two years younger. I agree don't draft for need in most cases, but I think this is an exception to that rule. I don't see any sort of successful pairing of Obi and PJ, he just doesn't make any sense for us.
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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#28 » by wilson115 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:36 am

It'll take a will of iron to pick Toppin at #3 after what happened to Divac when he drafted Bagley.
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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#29 » by BigSlam » Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:51 am

wilson115 wrote:It'll take a will of iron to pick Toppin at #3 after what happened to Divac when he drafted Bagley.

Not to mention watching a guy like Derrick Williams flame out of the league so quickly - who had all the strengths and the the exact same glaring weaknesses as Toppin does.


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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#30 » by MasterIchiro » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:24 am

This article is an oldie but goodie that speculates the Warriors are intrigued by Toppin and scouted Dayton this year.

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2019/12/22/golden-state-warriors-2020-nba-draft-obi-toppin-dayton-flyers/

Some highlights:

Despite the fact that their poor record will give them a solid chance at their pick of the litter, per team insider Connor Letourneau, the front office is not “infatuated” with any of the projected top picks in the 2020 NBA Draft.

Diving in a bit and it seems Golden State has done their early due diligence scouting Dayton; they have already visited their practices twice this season.

The biggest concern for scouts might be that after redshirting, Toppin is already 21 years old. But for a win-now team like the Warriors, that is far from a problem and closer to a lovable attribute. Unlike other franchises selecting in the lottery, they need someone who can help right away and he can do that at the Chase Center.
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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#31 » by Braggins » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:30 am

It would be great for the Hornets if the Warriors selected Toppin.
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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#32 » by MasterIchiro » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:37 am

Braggins wrote:It would be great for the Hornets if the Warriors selected Toppin.


I love Toppin. I want to have his babies. But I agree. Edwards fits the current roster better a d prolongs the tank one or two years longer than Toppin. The Warriors are in a position to add the most NBA ready player in the draft. That's Toppin and he fits there. He'd make an impact right away. Certainly this is the kind of surprise pick that would shock wannabe scouts and dipstick pundits.
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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#33 » by Braggins » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:21 am

MasterIchiro wrote:
Braggins wrote:It would be great for the Hornets if the Warriors selected Toppin.


I love Toppin. I want to have his babies. But I agree. Edwards fits the current roster better a d prolongs the tank one or two years longer than Toppin. The Warriors are in a position to add the most NBA ready player in the draft. That's Toppin and he fits there. He'd make an impact right away. Certainly this is the kind of surprise pick that would shock wannabe scouts and dipstick pundits.

Im not confident in my opinions on this draft yet and a lot of them will potentially change with more research, but as of right now I dont like Edwards or Toppin. There really isnt any prospect id be thrilled with for a top 3 pick. This draft seems pretty crappy.
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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#34 » by MasterIchiro » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:26 am

Braggins wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
Braggins wrote:It would be great for the Hornets if the Warriors selected Toppin.


I love Toppin. I want to have his babies. But I agree. Edwards fits the current roster better a d prolongs the tank one or two years longer than Toppin. The Warriors are in a position to add the most NBA ready player in the draft. That's Toppin and he fits there. He'd make an impact right away. Certainly this is the kind of surprise pick that would shock wannabe scouts and dipstick pundits.

Im not confident in my opinions on this draft yet and a lot of them will potentially change with more research, but as of right now I dont like Edwards or Toppin. There really isnt any prospect id be thrilled with for a top 3 pick. This draft seems pretty crappy.


I don't see how you can watch Edwards and Toppin and not at least like them or trust that they are gonna make an impact if Kupchak drafts them. The dude grabbed Devonté in the second round. He traded UP for him vs. Cho who traded up for...Bismack Biyumbo. We are in a good place. And our tank is gonna extend beyond the next draft, a much better one supposedly.
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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#35 » by JMAC3 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:08 am

I think he is a really good player, but to me he is limited on what he does. If you watch his tape at Dayton (I have a lot). You will find him playing exactly like a stretch 4, with some highlight dunks on fast breaks.

He shoots a ton of pick and pop threes- probably shot less than 5 off the dribble all year.

For the Hornets, I just don’t think he is a good fit with PJ, they have almost all the same strengths and play the same position. He might have more upside then PJ but it’s not a big enough gap to spend a top 3 pick on him when we have a lot more needs.


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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#36 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:53 pm

So I agree that Offense > Defense both in therms of guys getting paid and for what the Hornets need now ... but I'm pretty done with drafting one way guys like MKG and Monk.
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Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#37 » by BigSlam » Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:54 pm

I think Toppin will absolutely have an impact, especially in his rookie year.

But for every positive impact there will be a negative impact with the points he’ll surrender. He’s like the reverse MKG.

I would have preferred a guy like Brandon Clarke who can get points (not as sophisticatedly as Toppin) but also defends the paint/rim well.

And I’d rather PJ over both of them.


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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#38 » by JMAC3 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:45 pm

Let’s say PJ is only 15/8 on good percentages. If Toppin is a hooper and 20/9, was it worth the pick? Or would you rather address another hole on the team?


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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#39 » by BigSlam » Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:28 pm

JMAC3 wrote:Let’s say PJ is only 15/8 on good percentages. If Toppin is a hooper and 20/9, was it worth the pick? Or would you rather address another hole on the team?


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If PJ is scoring 15 points, how many is he giving up at the other end?

Likewise, if Toppin is scoring 20 points, how many is he giving up at the other end?

Toppin has me remembering the hype some had on this board around Thomas Robinson.


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Re: Prospect Thread: Obi Toppin 

Post#40 » by DY_nasty » Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:33 pm

BigSlam wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:Let’s say PJ is only 15/8 on good percentages. If Toppin is a hooper and 20/9, was it worth the pick? Or would you rather address another hole on the team?


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If PJ is scoring 15 points, how many is he giving up at the other end?

Likewise, if Toppin is scoring 20 points, how many is he giving up at the other end?

Toppin has me remembering the hype some had on this board around Thomas Robinson.


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That's my thing.

What does he do substantially better than Thomas Robinson or Derrick Williams?

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