2020 Off-season Discussion

[DY_nasty]

edit

[JMAC3]

Let me ask you Rozier haters this..

What is Rozier worth? What kind of contract would you pay him if he is such a negative asset.

Just to be 1 billion percent clear: I am in no way a Terry hater. I am perfectly fine with his contract given how he played and carried himself last season.

But given our draft and bringing in Melo, the performance of Tae last season and now bringing in Hayward - not to mention wanting to really see what we have in Monk and might have in Thing #1 it makes sense to get him off our books without it costing us anything.

Why give him away for free? If you are worried about having too many guards you can trade him to another team for a center or a wing?

Knicks and Clippers have already shown to have interest in him... We can probably find a deal from someone now or later in the year.

Look at it this way... would you cut Rozier so you don't have to stretch Batum? We are still paying Batum either way

[BigSlam]

Would Rozier really regress with one (maybe two) competent playmaker/s coming aboard? Would the FO really want to get rid of an 18ppg C&S ace after taking on Hayward and Melo? Isn't the FO thinking "win now" (or at least compete) with those moves?

Look at it this way: Would the FO really want to be paying their 3rd string PG (behind Tae and Melo) who is also only their 3rd string SG (behind Hayward and Monk - and maybe even Thing #1) $18mil next season?

[316Hornets]

Warriors or Clippers will give us a 1st for Rozier

[Liver_Pooty]

I think Mitch is doing a solid job. By stretching, or maybe threatening to stretch Batum he called Ainge out on his typical BS where he tries to give up nothing and get back everything

[JMAC3]

What if Onyeka breaks out for Hawks? Hawks decide they don't want to pay Capella 40 million for next two years? Or Magic want to swap Rozier for Gordon?

[BigSlam]

Why give him away for free? If you are worried about having too many guards you can trade him to another team for a center or a wing?

Because it takes two to tango. We can want to trade him, doesn't mean we can. That would mean being stuck with his cap hit next year Vs being able to clear it when his impact has now become redundant.

Also means you have to bring equal money back in if we trade him as well - which isn't always easy to do.

Look at it this way... would you cut Rozier so you don't have to stretch Batum? We are still paying Batum either way

Equally look at it this way: Would you keep Terry and have him barely see the court next season......or would you open up that $18mil cap space and the chance to either take on a salary dump contract from a cap strapped team while picking up additional assets (1st round picks?) or have the chance to sign outright a more suitable FA with that $18mil cap space?

[BigSlam]

Warriors or Clippers will give us a 1st for Rozier

Sweet - and what crap contracts would we have to take back from them in order to make the $18mill salaries match that would put us further back in the salary cap hole?

[Liver_Pooty]

No idea if the Clippers have an expiring close to Roziers contract, but I'd take that expiring and a future first (if they even have one, pretty sure okc has their first rounders for the next 60 years)

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Look at it this way... would you cut Rozier so you don't have to stretch Batum? We are still paying Batum either way

Equally look at it this way: Would you keep Terry and have him barely see the court next season......or would you open up that $18mil cap space and the chance to either take on a salary dump contract from a cap strapped team while picking up additional assets (1st round picks?) or have the chance to sign outright a more suitable FA with that $18mil cap space?

Who can the team really sign for $18 mil without overpaying?

Just MHO, but Terry's value is higher now than it will be mid-season. He played off-ball some last year which impacted his assist numbers. That's going to be even more the case this year. By the trade deadline teams may be willing to pay more for him again, but the bad teams definitely will not want to part with a pick by that point.

[BigSlam]

What if Onyeka breaks out for Hawks? Hawks decide they don't want to pay Capella 40 million for next two years? Or Magic want to swap Rozier for Gordon?

If if's and buts were dicks and balls your aunt would be your uncle!! You have to work with what you DO know, not what you hope "might" happen.

But let's say the Hawks did want to dump Capella because Okongwu breaks out - imagine having the open cap space to just absorb his contract from the Hawks without having to send ANYTHING back and them throwing in a pick for us opening up the cap and roster space for them?

That''d be great asset management by Mitch.

[Liver_Pooty]

Ainge told the Pacers he wanted Turner and Warren/Oladipo for Hayward. That's insanity. I bet he probably asked Mitch for PJ, Miles, and a future first or something stupid and Mitch basically said ok **** you were stretching Batum and will sign him outright. Now Ainge with no leverage wanting at least something back will have to make a deal way more realistic, if not fully ripping off his own team by asking for unrealistic stuff. Ainge screwed up badly and Mitch took advantage of it. I dont like the $ we spent, but I like Mitch calling Ainge out on his nonsense that's been going on for years.

[BigSlam]

Look at it this way... would you cut Rozier so you don't have to stretch Batum? We are still paying Batum either way

Equally look at it this way: Would you keep Terry and have him barely see the court next season......or would you open up that $18mil cap space and the chance to either take on a salary dump contract from a cap strapped team while picking up additional assets (1st round picks?) or have the chance to sign outright a more suitable FA with that $18mil cap space?

Who can the team really sign for $18 mil without overpaying?

Just MHO, but Terry's value is higher now than it will be mid-season. He played off-ball some last year which impacted his assist numbers. That's going to be even more the case this year. By the trade deadline teams may be willing to pay more for him again, but the bad teams definitely will not want to part with a pick by that point.

It's not just about signing someone with the cap space that would be created by removing Terry from our sheet - it's about creating options. With Terry on the roster we don't have options should we want to move on. We'd have to either find a suitable trade or pay him out.

Moving him now without it costing us anything would mean that we could sign someone if we wanted, or we could use that cap space creatively in another way like absorbing $$$$ to open up trades for teams who don't have the cap space and who would be willing to give us assets in order to do so.

We're all taking about the 2021 and 2022 drafts, we should be building assets towards them.

All that said, my real point is about creating options - which we would have more of with Terry's $18mill off the books. Again, that isn't a slight on Terry, it's just that the composition of our roster has changed DRAMATICALLY over the past 72 hours and that has impacted his value to us IMO.

[Braggins]

Rozier + Zeller for Capela + Snell would get us within 900k of being able to sign Hayward outright without stretching Batum. Pretty sure wed just have to find someone to absorb Caleb Martin. I don't think Atlanta would do that, but I probably would.

Graham/Monk/Riller
Snell/Ball
Hayward/Martin
PJ/Miles
Capela/Baynes/Carey

[wilson115]

Would Rozier really regress with one (maybe two) competent playmaker/s coming aboard? Would the FO really want to get rid of an 18ppg C&S ace after taking on Hayward and Melo? Isn't the FO thinking "win now" (or at least compete) with those moves?

Look at it this way: Would the FO really want to be paying their 3rd string PG (behind Tae and Melo) who is also only their 3rd string SG (behind Hayward and Monk - and maybe even Thing #1) $18mil next season?

Strong points but is Hayward a guard right now? -- It comes down to who fits the FO's timeline with Hayward. Who do they want holding the fort while our young backcourt (Tae+Melo) grows into it, Monk or Rozier?

[JMAC3]

What if Onyeka breaks out for Hawks? Hawks decide they don't want to pay Capella 40 million for next two years? Or Magic want to swap Rozier for Gordon?

If if's and buts were dicks and balls your aunt would be your uncle!! You have to work with what you DO know, not what you hope "might" happen.

But let's say the Hawks did want to dump Capella because Okongwu breaks out - imagine having the open cap space to just absorb his contract from the Hawks without having to send ANYTHING back and them throwing in a pick for us opening up the cap and roster space for them?

That''d be great asset management by Mitch.

Slam we wont have cap space this season by trading Rozier to Boston... We would still be paying Batum. If you are talking about next year? Well then we will have cap space regardless if we keep Rozier

Knicks by my estimation came into the day with 40 million in cap space. They paid 5million to Payton, 5 million to Noel and 6 to Burks... so they still have 24 million in cap space. Too bad Rozier is a "negative value" contract or we could maybe send him there and get some assets. But because he is a negative value contract we would probably have to give the Knicks picks just to take his horrible horrible contract off our hands lol

[BigSlam]

Rozier + Zeller for Capela + Snell would get us within 900k of being able to sign Hayward outright without stretching Batum. Pretty sure wed just have to find someone to absorb Caleb Martin. I don't think Atlanta would do that, but I probably would.

Graham/Monk/Riller
Snell/Ball
Hayward/Martin
PJ/Miles
Capela/Baynes/Carey

I personally wouldn't want Capella and his $50mil over the next 3 years.

And I don't get the Snell part. Doesn't be play for the Pistons?

[BigSlam]

Would Rozier really regress with one (maybe two) competent playmaker/s coming aboard? Would the FO really want to get rid of an 18ppg C&S ace after taking on Hayward and Melo? Isn't the FO thinking "win now" (or at least compete) with those moves?

Look at it this way: Would the FO really want to be paying their 3rd string PG (behind Tae and Melo) who is also only their 3rd string SG (behind Hayward and Monk - and maybe even Thing #1) $18mil next season?

Strong points but is Hayward a guard right now? -- It comes down to who fits the FO's timeline with Hayward. Who do they want holding the fort while our young backcourt (Tae+Melo) grows into it, Monk or Rozier?

I personally 100% see Hayward as a SG and not a SF.

In simple form:
Tae - Hayward - Miles - PF - Zeller
Melo - Monk - Thing #1 - McDaniels - Vern

[HornetJail]

Rozier + Zeller for Capela + Snell would get us within 900k of being able to sign Hayward outright without stretching Batum. Pretty sure wed just have to find someone to absorb Caleb Martin. I don't think Atlanta would do that, but I probably would.

Graham/Monk/Riller
Snell/Ball
Hayward/Martin
PJ/Miles
Capela/Baynes/Carey

no way ATL does that. Capela is good

[Liver_Pooty]

Look at it this way: Would the FO really want to be paying their 3rd string PG (behind Tae and Melo) who is also only their 3rd string SG (behind Hayward and Monk - and maybe even Thing #1) $18mil next season?

Strong points but is Hayward a guard right now? -- It comes down to who fits the FO's timeline with Hayward. Who do they want holding the fort while our young backcourt (Tae+Melo) grows into it, Monk or Rozier?

I personally 100% see Hayward as a SG and not a SF.

In simple form:
Tae - Hayward - Miles - PF - Zeller
Melo - Monk - Thing #1 - McDaniels - Vern

Agreed.