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Barely Legal: The Vernon Carey Jr Thread

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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#81 » by BlackOutBuzz » Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:54 pm

Hopefully the final year is a team option, gives them the ability to make him restricted after 3 years instead of unrestricted after 4.

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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#82 » by BeesWax » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:52 pm

I kind of hope this is a product of going to the wrong school for a skill set. There are a lot of examples of these things with big guys over the years. I hope he shows more and is about to do more in our system then he was allowed to do or show in his time at Duke.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#83 » by Liver_Pooty » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:57 pm

BeesWax wrote:I kind of hope this is a product of going to the wrong school for a skill set. There are a lot of examples of these things with big guys over the years. I hope he shows more and is about to do more in our system then he was allowed to do or show in his time at Duke.


I mean he averaged 18/9/1.7 in not even 25 mpg at Duke. He showed quite a bit. Even hoisted up a good three point percentage in very limited attempts
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#84 » by amcoolio » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:58 pm

I worry about his defense not being able to keep him on the floor. Hopefully he works hard and has the agility to make up space quickly.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#85 » by BeesWax » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:02 pm

Liver_Pooty wrote:
BeesWax wrote:I kind of hope this is a product of going to the wrong school for a skill set. There are a lot of examples of these things with big guys over the years. I hope he shows more and is about to do more in our system then he was allowed to do or show in his time at Duke.


I mean he averaged 18/9/1.7 in not even 25 mpg at Duke. He showed quite a bit. Even hoisted up a good three point percentage in very limited attempts

It wasn't bad but he didn't get a chance to showcase much. Just not a part of that system really. I like what I have seen from him and feel like he has more to offer if given the chance.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#86 » by Hornet Mania » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:10 pm

Jahlil Okafor blew it for this guy. In a world where he didn't completely bust Carey is a top-20 pick without a doubt. GMs just saw a traditional big man in a Duke jersey and the red warning light started flashing.

Okafor owes him a nice dinner at minimum. At least Shelden Williams had the decency to not screw up the future earnings potential of his successors.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#87 » by Liver_Pooty » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:10 pm

BeesWax wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:
BeesWax wrote:I kind of hope this is a product of going to the wrong school for a skill set. There are a lot of examples of these things with big guys over the years. I hope he shows more and is about to do more in our system then he was allowed to do or show in his time at Duke.


I mean he averaged 18/9/1.7 in not even 25 mpg at Duke. He showed quite a bit. Even hoisted up a good three point percentage in very limited attempts

It wasn't bad but he didn't get a chance to showcase much. Just not a part of that system really. I like what I have seen from him and feel like he has more to offer if given the chance.


Yeah, I think his shot will be better than advertised. Like previously mentioned his defense will be what hinders him.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#88 » by MasterIchiro » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:40 pm

He's a massive specimen even after dropping 30 lbs. It looks like it all fell from his midsection. His new physique should give him greater mobility and agility on defense. He should be able to change direction easier, shuffle his feet and guard the perimeter better and not get burnt in pick-and-roll. Given the 4-year investment, it looks like Biz is third string and Carey is the backup to Zeller. Biz is a good mentor for Carey's defensive footwork and reads.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#89 » by BlackOutBuzz » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:59 pm

FWIW: rookie-year cap hits

30: Desmond Bane: $2.3M (120% rookie scale)
31: Tyrell Terry: TBA (confirmed 4 years)

33: Daniel Oturu: minimum over two years
34: Theo Maledon: TBD
35: Xavier Tillman: $1.3M

I actually think Tillman's structure makes a lot of sense: 3 years + a team option (and I'm sure Carey's agent took note when it was signed).

Read on Twitter


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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#90 » by James Gatz » Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:01 pm

amcoolio wrote:I worry about his defense not being able to keep him on the floor. Hopefully he works hard and has the agility to make up space quickly.


This 100%. He couldn't defend PnR or protect the rim at Duke. Maybe losing the weight will help his mobility but if it doesn't then he will never be more than a change of pace bench big.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#91 » by BigSlam » Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:20 pm

amcoolio wrote:
Read on Twitter


4 year deal. Nice. Locked down long term. I think he'll play a big role for us.

I am really happy about this - because I am (probably unreasonably) super excited about Vernon, his potential and the impact he could have for us.

I think he specializes in things that are really lacking on this team and he could end up being the steal of the draft - if he learns to pass/move the rock a lot more.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#92 » by BlackOutBuzz » Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:35 pm

BlackOutBuzz wrote:
Read on Twitter


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This tweet made me curious. Fernando only signed for $100k more than Tillman, so if Carey gets more than Tillman... this could be a record-breaking 2nd-round contract.

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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#93 » by euphorbus » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:01 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:He's a massive specimen even after dropping 30 lbs. It looks like it all fell from his midsection. His new physique should give him greater mobility and agility on defense.


I just hope he can jump now. On his highlight dunks, he barely got over the rim. Guards like Monk could block him unless he improves.

Given that physical limitation, I would not have offered him any kind of guaranteed contract at least until he had been through training camp.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#94 » by LofJ » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:10 pm

euphorbus wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:He's a massive specimen even after dropping 30 lbs. It looks like it all fell from his midsection. His new physique should give him greater mobility and agility on defense.


I just hope he can jump now. On his highlight dunks, he barely got over the rim. Guards like Monk could block him unless he improves.

Given that physical limitation, I would not have offered him any kind of guaranteed contract at least until he had been through training camp.


He looks pretty athletic to me:

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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#95 » by Liver_Pooty » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:11 pm

If a 19 year old big from a big time program averages 25/13/3 per 36 and you get him in the 2nd round you basically guarantee that immediately.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#96 » by luciano-davidwesley » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:34 pm

BlackOutBuzz wrote:Hopefully the final year is a team option, gives them the ability to make him restricted after 3 years instead of unrestricted after 4.

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I thought if you draft them or acquire them in a trade you retain their bird rights at the end of their rookie contracts. Could you please elaborate on why this is the case thanks?
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#97 » by BlackOutBuzz » Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:04 pm

luciano-davidwesley wrote:
BlackOutBuzz wrote:Hopefully the final year is a team option, gives them the ability to make him restricted after 3 years instead of unrestricted after 4.

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I thought if you draft them or acquire them in a trade you retain their bird rights at the end of their rookie contracts. Could you please elaborate on why this is the case thanks?
Bird Rights, yes; as long as they have 3 years of service. Whether a free agent is restricted or not is a little different.

Two types of players become restricted free agents:

1) A first round pick after 4 years.
2) Any other player reaching free agency *prior* to their fourth season.

So should Carey play for all 4 years he'd be *unrestricted,* even though Ball would be restricted at the same time. We could offer more money via Bird Rights, but would have no ability to match like you do with restricted free agents.

One mechanism we've seen recently is the 3+1 option contract for 2nd rounders. A good example is the Nuggets with Jokic.

Jokic played 3 years for dirt cheap and established himself as a star player. The Nuggets had the option to keep him for cheap for a 4th year, but it meant he'd be unrestricted after that year and could sign anywhere. So instead, they declined the fourth-year option - making him restricted - and eventually signed him to a max deal.

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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#98 » by luciano-davidwesley » Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:15 pm

BlackOutBuzz wrote:
luciano-davidwesley wrote:
BlackOutBuzz wrote:Hopefully the final year is a team option, gives them the ability to make him restricted after 3 years instead of unrestricted after 4.

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I thought if you draft them or acquire them in a trade you retain their bird rights at the end of their rookie contracts. Could you please elaborate on why this is the case thanks?
Bird Rights, yes; as long as they have 3 years of service. Whether a free agent is restricted or not is a little different.

Two types of players become restricted free agents:

1) A first round pick after 4 years.
2) Any other player reaching free agency *prior* to their fourth season.

So should Carey play for all 4 years he'd be *unrestricted,* even though Ball would be restricted at the same time. We could offer more money via Bird Rights, but would have no ability to match like you do with restricted free agents.

One mechanism we've seen recently is the 3+1 option contract for 2nd rounders. A good example is the Nuggets with Jokic.

Jokic played 3 years for dirt cheap and established himself as a star player. The Nuggets had the option to keep him for cheap for a 4th year, but it meant he'd be unrestricted after that year and could sign anywhere. So instead, they declined the fourth-year option - making him restricted - and eventually signed him to a max deal.

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Thank you for the explanation. So effectively the players that can become restricted free agents you are describing are;

1) First round draft picks
2) Second round draft picks and undrafted rookies

Correct? Also if an undrafted FA signs a 2 year deal with a team then signs a 1 year deal with another team, is he still going to be a restricted FA at the end of the third year? What about first rounders where the team declines the option years? Would they be restricted free agents for the next team that picks them up? Apologies for the interrogation haha.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#99 » by BigSlam » Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:49 pm

euphorbus wrote:I just hope he can jump now. On his highlight dunks, he barely got over the rim. Guards like Monk could block him unless he improves.


BigSlam wrote:

Nibble feet, defensive stance and then recovery to contest the shot at the 0:15 mark.
Jama-lama-ding-dong at the 0:22 mark.
Smooth looking J at the 3:40 mark.
Second jump bounce at the 3:55 mark.
Post up thunder dunk at the 5:01 mark.

I'm REALLY liking this pick.


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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Vernon Carey Jr 

Post#100 » by 316Hornets » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:11 pm

It's pretty eye opening if you compare Vernon and Zeller's college stats. They are identical in a lot of areas and I think they play the game in a similar way. Wouldn't surprise me if we look to move Zeller before the deadline if Vernon is able to hold his own.

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