ImageImage

Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million

Moderators: BigSlam, JDR720, fatlever, yosemiteben, Diop

Soulcatcher33
Veteran
Posts: 2,538
And1: 2,723
Joined: Dec 14, 2016
 

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#321 » by Soulcatcher33 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:28 am

James Gatz wrote:If we can get off Rozier's contract and not stretch Batum then I'm much more okay with Hayward deal. Despite his good statistical year last year I think he regresses and isn't worth what he's being paid next two years.


You are going to be pleasantly surprised then. Hayward could have been doing a lot more on the Celtics this past season when he was healthy. Young guys coming up and him basically being unselfish and team oriented to a fault is why he fell to a "4th" option when he was clearly a better and more polished player than Jaylen Brown. The difference is Brown basically looked for his shot every time he got the ball and Hayward was always looking for the best shot for the team. On the Hornets he's now the main guy, period, and he will have his best season since 2017. Look for him to put up 20-22ppg, 6rpg, 5apg while playing his usual solid defense this upcoming season. I'd say there is almost zero chance he regresses and instead improves unless it's because of injuries.

He's certainly not worth 30 million a year over the next 4 seasons, but as long as he's healthy the team will definitely get at least a good two all star level seasons out of him.
User avatar
Liver_Pooty
RealGM
Posts: 34,400
And1: 10,300
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#322 » by Liver_Pooty » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:32 am

Soulcatcher33 wrote:
James Gatz wrote:If we can get off Rozier's contract and not stretch Batum then I'm much more okay with Hayward deal. Despite his good statistical year last year I think he regresses and isn't worth what he's being paid next two years.


You are going to be pleasantly surprised then. Hayward could have been doing a lot more on the Celtics this past season when he was healthy. Young guys coming up and him basically being unselfish and team oriented to a fault is why he fell to a "4th" option when he was clearly a better and more polished player than Jaylen Brown. The difference is Brown basically looked for his shot every time he got the ball and Hayward was always looking for the best shot for the team. On the Hornets he's now the main guy, period, and he will have his best season since 2017. Look for him to put up 20-22ppg, 6rpg, 5apg while playing his usual solid defense this upcoming season. I'd say there is almost zero chance he regresses and instead improves unless it's because of injuries.

He's certainly not worth 30 million a year over the next 4 seasons, but as long as he's healthy the team will definitely get at least a good two all star level seasons out of him.


Thanks bud. Needed to see that :)
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
DY_nasty
Head Coach
Posts: 7,219
And1: 2,984
Joined: Apr 14, 2010

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#323 » by DY_nasty » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:34 am

ffs how is he hitting all-star status now after injuries when he only made it once before?
Chapelchilla wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:a lot of guys don't mail it in til they get paid


Well good news then, because Hayward is not “a lot of guys”. Dude has a track record.
He has been paid 3 times now. Never mailed it in even after being injured horribly.

good thing we guaranteed his contract just to be safe then

can't believe this team just happily repeats mistakes and people clap for it
Soulcatcher33
Veteran
Posts: 2,538
And1: 2,723
Joined: Dec 14, 2016
 

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#324 » by Soulcatcher33 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:37 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:
Soulcatcher33 wrote:
James Gatz wrote:If we can get off Rozier's contract and not stretch Batum then I'm much more okay with Hayward deal. Despite his good statistical year last year I think he regresses and isn't worth what he's being paid next two years.


You are going to be pleasantly surprised then. Hayward could have been doing a lot more on the Celtics this past season when he was healthy. Young guys coming up and him basically being unselfish and team oriented to a fault is why he fell to a "4th" option when he was clearly a better and more polished player than Jaylen Brown. The difference is Brown basically looked for his shot every time he got the ball and Hayward was always looking for the best shot for the team. On the Hornets he's now the main guy, period, and he will have his best season since 2017. Look for him to put up 20-22ppg, 6rpg, 5apg while playing his usual solid defense this upcoming season. I'd say there is almost zero chance he regresses and instead improves unless it's because of injuries.

He's certainly not worth 30 million a year over the next 4 seasons, but as long as he's healthy the team will definitely get at least a good two all star level seasons out of him.


Thanks bud. Needed to see that :)


Oh wait, I think he was actually talking about Rozier and I just wasn't paying attention. lol On a Rozier note, I was elated when you guys gave him that deal and he left the Celtics. I couldn't stand his arrogant and entitled ass.

If nothing else, Hayward is a great guy for a young team to learn from. He's probably the most fundamentally sound wing in the league and has a great work ethic. There are lot worse guys young players can be learning from. The deal doesn't make a whole lot of sense from the Hornets perspective, but I think everyone has given up on trying to figure out what the Hornets front office is thinking. Hayward, health permitting, will be an all star level player, though.
User avatar
JMAC3
Analyst
Posts: 3,550
And1: 972
Joined: May 22, 2010
     

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#325 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:38 am

Here is one way to look at things- this exercise really is looking at free agency next summer

Assume instead of signing Hayward to this deal we just decided to give out two 1 year deals for 10 million each. For purposes of this exercise it does not matter but for this lets assume it is Saric and Whiteside.

Essentially we would be using them just as 1 year place holders to carry our cap space over to next summer.

We could be walking into next summer with 65 million in cap space. Sounds good right?

Here are free agents.
Kawhi
PG13
Giannis
Lebron
Rudy Gobert
Oladipo
Holiday
Lowry
Derozan
Mike Conley
Andre Drummond
Steven Adams

Are any of these realistic possibilities? If so we would competing vs 20 other teams for these free agents instead of the 3 we were competing with on Hayward. Also, do you really trust the front office with this much cap space in one summer? We have already shown it takes a slight overpay to get guys here instead of other locations.


Instead we signed Hayward and stretched Batum

So we are looking at 30 million + 9 million stretch so instead of having 65 million next offseason we will only have 25 million.

Is it awful if you look at it like this?
Big Board
1. Vontae Mack no matter what!!
User avatar
wilson115
Sophomore
Posts: 248
And1: 155
Joined: Aug 21, 2020
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#326 » by wilson115 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:42 am

DY_nasty wrote:
wilson115 wrote:He walked away from $34M and an EC finalist for a bigger role. No questions about Hayward's desire, it's putting him in a position to succeed knowing what we're getting. (30 y.o. with near-career-ending injuries.)

he walked away from 34 mil for a year where he once again didn't make a difference for his team to a team that made excuses for Batum and 120 guaranteed :lol:

there is no better 'one last contract' scenario for the guy. and im not even mad at him...

the FO cemented the fact that they have no clue what they're doing. and hornets fans are trying to rationalize this instead of calling out mitch and MJ out. for what

"didn't make a difference" is harsh seeing he averaged 17.5 on 50/38/85 last year. Not to say the FO gets a pass given the injury history and the state of the roster.
LofJ
General Manager
Posts: 9,419
And1: 6,881
Joined: Mar 29, 2014
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#327 » by LofJ » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:44 am

The Batum stretch is what makes this awful. $9 million is a lot of money, that's a good rotation player that the team will not be able to sign.
User avatar
JMAC3
Analyst
Posts: 3,550
And1: 972
Joined: May 22, 2010
     

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#328 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:58 am

LofJ wrote:The Batum stretch is what makes this awful. $9 million is a lot of money, that's a good rotation player that the team will not be able to sign.


You keep saying this... their are limited options to avoid this.

1. Not sign Hayward
2. Give Boston Zeller or Rozier back for him
3. Attach a first round pick or Miles Bridges to Batum in a salary dump to another team

Or

4. Eat the 9 million for Batum
Big Board
1. Vontae Mack no matter what!!
LofJ
General Manager
Posts: 9,419
And1: 6,881
Joined: Mar 29, 2014
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#329 » by LofJ » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:00 am

JMAC3 wrote:
LofJ wrote:The Batum stretch is what makes this awful. $9 million is a lot of money, that's a good rotation player that the team will not be able to sign.


You keep saying this... their are limited options to avoid this.

1. Not sign Hayward
2. Give Boston Zeller or Rozier back for him
3. Attach a first round pick or Miles Bridges to Batum in a salary dump to another team

Or

4. Eat the 9 million for Batum


Number 2 all day everyday, send Cody to Boston.
User avatar
amcoolio
Hornets Forum John Hancock
Posts: 11,910
And1: 4,070
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
Location: Servant to lord Bargnani
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#330 » by amcoolio » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:02 am

JMAC3 wrote:
LofJ wrote:The Batum stretch is what makes this awful. $9 million is a lot of money, that's a good rotation player that the team will not be able to sign.


You keep saying this... their are limited options to avoid this.

1. Not sign Hayward
2. Give Boston Zeller or Rozier back for him
3. Attach a first round pick or Miles Bridges to Batum in a salary dump to another team

Or

4. Eat the 9 million for Batum



Miami signed Jimmy to max with 0 million in cap space. If Mitch was any good at his job he'd be creative enough to open 9 million in cap space.
Image
User avatar
JMAC3
Analyst
Posts: 3,550
And1: 972
Joined: May 22, 2010
     

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#331 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:03 am

LofJ wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
LofJ wrote:The Batum stretch is what makes this awful. $9 million is a lot of money, that's a good rotation player that the team will not be able to sign.


You keep saying this... their are limited options to avoid this.

1. Not sign Hayward
2. Give Boston Zeller or Rozier back for him
3. Attach a first round pick or Miles Bridges to Batum in a salary dump to another team

Or

4. Eat the 9 million for Batum


Number 2 all day everyday, send Cody to Boston.


Gotcha, we would have no center in this scenario and no additional cap space to sign one. Unless you think we can find a starting center for 4.7 million. Also, this assumes Boston would of wanted Zeller, which we aren't sure if they did.
Big Board
1. Vontae Mack no matter what!!
User avatar
JMAC3
Analyst
Posts: 3,550
And1: 972
Joined: May 22, 2010
     

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#332 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:06 am

amcoolio wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
LofJ wrote:The Batum stretch is what makes this awful. $9 million is a lot of money, that's a good rotation player that the team will not be able to sign.


You keep saying this... their are limited options to avoid this.

1. Not sign Hayward
2. Give Boston Zeller or Rozier back for him
3. Attach a first round pick or Miles Bridges to Batum in a salary dump to another team

Or

4. Eat the 9 million for Batum



Miami signed Jimmy to max with 0 million in cap space. If Mitch was any good at his job he'd be creative enough to open 9 million in cap space.


Yeah Miami gave up a Josh Richardson and a first round draft pick to make it happen. I mean if you want Mitch to give away Miles Bridges and a first to dump Batum I am sure he could do it lol.
Big Board
1. Vontae Mack no matter what!!
LofJ
General Manager
Posts: 9,419
And1: 6,881
Joined: Mar 29, 2014
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#333 » by LofJ » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:08 am

JMAC3 wrote:
LofJ wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
You keep saying this... their are limited options to avoid this.

1. Not sign Hayward
2. Give Boston Zeller or Rozier back for him
3. Attach a first round pick or Miles Bridges to Batum in a salary dump to another team

Or

4. Eat the 9 million for Batum


Number 2 all day everyday, send Cody to Boston.


Gotcha, we would have no center in this scenario and no additional cap space to sign one. Unless you think we can find a starting center for 4.7 million. Also, this assumes Boston would of wanted Zeller, which we aren't sure if they did.


We could structure Hayward's salary to have more than $4.7 million to spend. We need to move on from Zeller anyway and there are still some solid options in fee agency that we get pretty cheaply.
Chapelchilla
Senior
Posts: 599
And1: 274
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
         

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#334 » by Chapelchilla » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:19 am

JMAC3 wrote:Here is one way to look at things- this exercise really is looking at free agency next summer

Assume instead of signing Hayward to this deal we just decided to give out two 1 year deals for 10 million each. For purposes of this exercise it does not matter but for this lets assume it is Saric and Whiteside.

Essentially we would be using them just as 1 year place holders to carry our cap space over to next summer.

We could be walking into next summer with 65 million in cap space. Sounds good right?

Here are free agents.
Kawhi
PG13
Giannis
Lebron
Rudy Gobert
Oladipo
Holiday
Lowry
Derozan
Mike Conley
Andre Drummond
Steven Adams

Are any of these realistic possibilities? If so we would competing vs 20 other teams for these free agents instead of the 3 we were competing with on Hayward. Also, do you really trust the front office with this much cap space in one summer? We have already shown it takes a slight overpay to get guys here instead of other locations.


Instead we signed Hayward and stretched Batum

So we are looking at 30 million + 9 million stretch so instead of having 65 million next offseason we will only have 25 million.

Is it awful if you look at it like this?


True, and Hayward may be better then half the guys on that list, especially considering his nearly perfect fit on this team and leadership qualities he brings. The best guys on there would never even consider signing here yesterday.
Would it be easier to get someone else to sign here now? I think so. Maybe the next off season a guy like Harrell thinks hmm, they are building something down there. Ball and Hayward already there starting to win more then lose, they like to pass a lot, I could really fit in, get my touches and further my career in Charlotte.
You don’t build a brick house from the top down.
Soul Rebel
Junior
Posts: 367
And1: 204
Joined: Jun 10, 2015
Location: Honolulu : SEA : CLT
Contact:
         

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#335 » by Soul Rebel » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:34 am

Seeing the reaction to the Hayward signing, I can't imagine the reaction if we traded for Westbrook.
Image
User avatar
BigSlam
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 45,563
And1: 3,330
Joined: Jul 01, 2005

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#336 » by BigSlam » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:40 am

Soul Rebel wrote:Seeing the reaction to the Hayward signing, I can't imagine the reaction if we traded for Westbrook.

Interestingly enough, it's about the same amount of overall money - but Westbrook's contract expires a year earlier.
BBMF'ers
Braggins
RealGM
Posts: 10,855
And1: 5,458
Joined: Jan 05, 2014
 

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#337 » by Braggins » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:43 am

LofJ wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
LofJ wrote:
Number 2 all day everyday, send Cody to Boston.


Gotcha, we would have no center in this scenario and no additional cap space to sign one. Unless you think we can find a starting center for 4.7 million. Also, this assumes Boston would of wanted Zeller, which we aren't sure if they did.


We could structure Hayward's salary to have more than $4.7 million to spend. We need to move on from Zeller anyway and there are still some solid options in fee agency that we get pretty cheaply.

After looking at our cap breakdown over the next few years, I actually want us to send out Rozier and keep Zeller. We need Zeller this season more than Rozier and I think we'd be better off keeping the contract that comes off the books after next season.
driveandkick
Senior
Posts: 747
And1: 257
Joined: May 23, 2015
       

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#338 » by driveandkick » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:31 am

BigSlam wrote:
Soul Rebel wrote:Seeing the reaction to the Hayward signing, I can't imagine the reaction if we traded for Westbrook.

Interestingly enough, it's about the same amount of overall money - but Westbrook's contract expires a year earlier.

One is an inefficient, ball-dominant player and the other just shot 50% and is one of the better secondary playmakers in the league. The development of our young players is priority #1. Is Russ overall a better player? Yes. But if you want to bring in a big name that is best for the future of our team it’s Hayward and it’s not even close.
2020 NBA Draft Charlotte Hornets Wishlist for #3:
1) LaMelo Ball
2) Anthony Edwards
3) Onyeka Okongwu
4) Killian Hayes
5) Isaac Okoro
6) Deni Avdija
7) James Wiseman
luciano-davidwesley
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 4,147
And1: 202
Joined: Aug 03, 2002
Location: Gold Coast
Contact:
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#339 » by luciano-davidwesley » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:45 am

Braggins wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:I think doing a sign and trade helps out Boston more than it helps us. They either get an asset like Rozier or a trade exception, either way both are better than getting nothing for Hayward.

Ya, I agree. Like, I think we definitely need to figure something out to avoid stretching Batum, but Rozier is a positive asset that I think we really need to use to find another piece that fits our roster better. If we ship Zeller that would be fine as long as we have a backup plan at center, but I really don't want that backup plan to be signing Whiteside. It would be nice to keep Cody as a backup for one last year if possible, so I think I'd rather just throw some 2nd rounders with Batum if Boston would do that, but I'm not sure if that is enough incentive for them.

I think Batum has positive value. Boston should be the one giving picks because they'll probably be able to flip him for a first rounder at or before the trade deadline.

If this report of our GM calling Ainge's bluff is true I'd almost call this genius if we hadn't committed to 4 years of Hayward.
User avatar
Effigy
RealGM
Posts: 12,001
And1: 9,105
Joined: Nov 27, 2001
     

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#340 » by Effigy » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:47 am

You guys will hate this, but now I think you should package Bismack and Rozier for Horford (but not add any picks, lol) I think Al and Gordon are such high bbiq guys, they’d be great to put around Ball and your other players. I think Horford will look much better when he’s not playing with Embid.

Return to Charlotte Hornets