ImageImage

Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million

Moderators: BigSlam, JDR720, fatlever, yosemiteben, Diop

DY_nasty
Head Coach
Posts: 7,227
And1: 2,993
Joined: Apr 14, 2010

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#361 » by DY_nasty » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:43 pm

Radu_Hornets wrote:Since no one is talking about this:

We are apparently still talking with the celtics for a sign and trade.
Our front office might be playing 4D Chess by saying we would waive Batum to make room for Hayward.

Read on Twitter


Getting Hayward without cutting Batum changes the whole story.

no it doesn't
User avatar
James Gatz
Starter
Posts: 2,491
And1: 507
Joined: Mar 12, 2012

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#362 » by James Gatz » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:50 pm

Hornet Mania wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:We weren't picking top 5 in next years draft without Hayward. No clue where some of you are getting this stuff.


Yeah, the young guys are still being underestimated. The team plays hard and doesn't quit on their coach, that puts them ahead of at least 5-6 hopeless cases any given season, just like last year. We were going to be in the middle of the pack relying on the lotto gods to hook us up with a top 4 pick again no matter what.


If we wouldn't have signed Hayward we certainly would be. We were the 4th worse team in net rating last year. All those teams (GS, MIN, ATL) will be better. If we had given Ball the keys we would likely be around the 3rd 4th worse.

Next season should have been about developing Ball. If we are trying to win games then he shouldn't really be on the floor. That doesn't make any sense in a long term view.

I get that people want to justify bad moves. It's our team and we love them no matter what. But like a child we get to be disappointed when they make mistakes. We don't need to justify their bad behavior because we love them.
User avatar
geraldwallace
Sophomore
Posts: 209
And1: 183
Joined: Jul 02, 2017
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#363 » by geraldwallace » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:51 pm

Missed opportunity to name this 120 Guarantees: Gordon Hayward thread
User avatar
BlackOutBuzz
Hornets Forum Capologist
Posts: 7,593
And1: 2,693
Joined: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Burlington, NC
       

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#364 » by BlackOutBuzz » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:54 pm

Maybe worth noting: when we traded Kemba for Rozier, there was no incentive for Boston to help us do that. They had capspace for Kemba, but we needed help to get Rozier.

As expected, we sent them a 2nd round pick (became Yam Madar), but surprisingly we got them to send us one back (Riller).

We had 0 leverage in that deal, yet we still pulled a minor asset out of it. All that to say, it makes sense for both teams to agree to a sign-and-trade, but I wouldn't expect a major coup here.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Hornets Picks by Year
2020: Ball, Carey, Richards, Riller
2021: CHA 1, BRK 2 (Howard), LAC 2 (Gilgeous-Alexander)
2022: CHA 1, CHA 2 (31-55)
2023: CHA 1, BOS 2 (Hayward)
2024: CHA 1, BOS 2 (Hayward)
2025: CHA 1, CHA 2
Hornet Mania
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,998
And1: 4,369
Joined: Jul 05, 2014
Location: Dornbirn, Austria
     

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#365 » by Hornet Mania » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:58 pm

James Gatz wrote:
Hornet Mania wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:We weren't picking top 5 in next years draft without Hayward. No clue where some of you are getting this stuff.


Yeah, the young guys are still being underestimated. The team plays hard and doesn't quit on their coach, that puts them ahead of at least 5-6 hopeless cases any given season, just like last year. We were going to be in the middle of the pack relying on the lotto gods to hook us up with a top 4 pick again no matter what.


If we wouldn't have signed Hayward we certainly would be. We were the 4th worse team in net rating last year. All those teams (GS, MIN, ATL) will be better. If we had given Ball the keys we would likely be around the 3rd 4th worse.

Next season should have been about developing Ball. If we are trying to win games then he shouldn't really be on the floor. That doesn't make any sense in a long term view.

I get that people want to justify bad moves. It's our team and we love them no matter what. But like a child we get to be disappointed when they make mistakes. We don't need to justify their bad behavior because we love them.


I'm definitely not trying to justify the Hayward signing, I'm on the record as against that one. :lol:

I just expect a little improvement from Miles/Monk/Martins/PJ and then Graham/Rozier to maintain their previous level of play with or without Hayward. If that happened 30ish wins is very possible imo, which puts us above the absolute basement but below the playoff cutoff. I think now that we signed Hayward we'll be around 35ish wins even if the most optimistic projection for him is true.

I agree that next year should have been a development year for everybody, I just think our coaching and player engagement is better than most of the hopeless cases. If we gave the keys to Ball from the start we would be one of the worst but I wasn't expecting JB to be that gung-ho about it. I figured Ball would get eased in for awhile as the team showcased Rozier and then maybe get heavy minutes by March after he's found his footing. I expected something akin to last year, playing lots of young guys and winning a bit more than the teams who fully embraced taking losses but still getting owned by any decent squad.
User avatar
geraldwallace
Sophomore
Posts: 209
And1: 183
Joined: Jul 02, 2017
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#366 » by geraldwallace » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:04 pm

I don't hate this on the court that much, for LaMelo to maximize his potential having a vet who plays really well off-ball, can take some pressure off on offense and can help guide things both on and off the court, is good for him and the rest of the core (unless your Miles)

But by god that contract and the Batum stretch is some of the most disgusting cap management I've seen
Chapelchilla
Senior
Posts: 599
And1: 274
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
         

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#367 » by Chapelchilla » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:11 pm

Liver_Pooty wrote:We weren't picking top 5 in next years draft without Hayward. No clue where some of you are getting this stuff.


I agree, we weren't beating Miami and Houston in March by some sort of accident. The young guys were playing hard and playing winning basketball.
It was already a 35 win team. If Ball doesn't ruin the chemistry I think we should be even better right? Adding VCJ and Gordon is icing on the cake.
Chapelchilla
Senior
Posts: 599
And1: 274
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
         

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#368 » by Chapelchilla » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:14 pm

DY_nasty wrote:
Radu_Hornets wrote:Since no one is talking about this:

We are apparently still talking with the celtics for a sign and trade.
Our front office might be playing 4D Chess by saying we would waive Batum to make room for Hayward.

Read on Twitter


Getting Hayward without cutting Batum changes the whole story.

no it doesn't


Yeah, it does. Not screwing up the cap for 3 years of nothing makes a huge difference.
DY_nasty
Head Coach
Posts: 7,227
And1: 2,993
Joined: Apr 14, 2010

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#369 » by DY_nasty » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:24 pm

Chapelchilla wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:
Radu_Hornets wrote:Since no one is talking about this:

We are apparently still talking with the celtics for a sign and trade.
Our front office might be playing 4D Chess by saying we would waive Batum to make room for Hayward.

Read on Twitter


Getting Hayward without cutting Batum changes the whole story.

no it doesn't


Yeah, it does. Not screwing up the cap for 3 years of nothing makes a huge difference.

it doesn't erase the fact that hayward's contract is still terrible. batum's stretch just changes things from being simply crippling and awful to one of the worst afternoons in FA ever seen

"the whole story"? nah. the only thing dumber than this was signing luol deng and mozgov to massive contracts one second after midnight. the lakers were STILL trying to deal with deng's contract just last month: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lakers-reportedly-want-career-ending-injury-exception-on-luol-dengs-salary-but-are-facing-an-uphill-battle/

mitch loves these jack of all trades wings with career altering injuries
User avatar
JMAC3
Analyst
Posts: 3,551
And1: 972
Joined: May 22, 2010
     

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#370 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:39 pm

DY_nasty wrote:
Chapelchilla wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:no it doesn't


Yeah, it does. Not screwing up the cap for 3 years of nothing makes a huge difference.

it doesn't erase the fact that hayward's contract is still terrible. batum's stretch just changes things from being simply crippling and awful to one of the worst afternoons in FA ever seen

"the whole story"? nah. the only thing dumber than this was signing luol deng and mozgov to massive contracts one second after midnight. the lakers were STILL trying to deal with deng's contract just last month: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lakers-reportedly-want-career-ending-injury-exception-on-luol-dengs-salary-but-are-facing-an-uphill-battle/

mitch loves these jack of all trades wings with career altering injuries


Good NBA players cost money... everyone wants good players, but they want to pay for bad players.

Hayward is not even that old... he has had basically one injury.

Kyle Lowry is 34 already, Curry is 32, Dragic is 34 so it is not impossible to be good at basketball after you are 30.

Hayward was getting 4/100 or 4/120 from somebody. Are you really going to complain because we paid at most 5 Million more for a guy who will be our best player this season?
Big Board
1. Vontae Mack no matter what!!
LofJ
General Manager
Posts: 9,434
And1: 6,918
Joined: Mar 29, 2014
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#371 » by LofJ » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:46 pm

Indiana wanted Hayward for 4/100 and probably would have landed him if Ainge wasn't a greedy snake. We had to beat that offer to get him. If we can avoid the Batum stretch, I'm fine with the contract we gave him. We obviously weren't going to take on bad deals for picks like Mitch said he wanted to do (thanks MJ).
Vanderbilt_Grad
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,830
And1: 1,584
Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#372 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:13 pm

DY_nasty wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:We weren't picking top 5 in next years draft without Hayward. No clue where some of you are getting this stuff.

we massively overachieved this past year

Disagree, but time will tell.
My picks:
2020 Draft - Tyrese Haliburton, Devin Vassell, or Onyeka Okongwu
KembaWalker
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,105
And1: 1,043
Joined: Dec 22, 2011
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#373 » by KembaWalker » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:36 pm

this is an investment in LaMelo. we have 4 years of his rookie contract where more eyes are gonna be on this franchise than ever before, probably by a factor of 10x+ if you believe the FSS viewership numbers. dudes a facilitator and needs people to facilitate. if we throw him out there on ESPN and TNT games and don't give him a real chance to play his game with competent running mates we are just ruining his development and setting him up to get destroyed in the media. last thing you want is LaMelo hesitating on swinging to Bridges cause he knows the ball is gonna stop or end in a clank
Image
Chapelchilla
Senior
Posts: 599
And1: 274
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
         

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#374 » by Chapelchilla » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:30 pm

KembaWalker wrote:this is an investment in LaMelo. we have 4 years of his rookie contract where more eyes are gonna be on this franchise than ever before, probably by a factor of 10x+ if you believe the FSS viewership numbers. dudes a facilitator and needs people to facilitate. if we throw him out there on ESPN and TNT games and don't give him a real chance to play his game with competent running mates we are just ruining his development and setting him up to get destroyed in the media. last thing you want is LaMelo hesitating on swinging to Bridges cause he knows the ball is gonna stop or end in a clank


Yep, if some of you guys can't see that being terrible when the spotlight swings this way is bad for Lamelo's future interest in signing here and Jordan as an owner, I don't know what to say, lol. We have a good young core, a possible future star and a veteran leader. Should be fun to watch the Hornets.
User avatar
316Hornets
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,803
And1: 2,443
Joined: Jun 26, 2015
Location: Milky Way
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#375 » by 316Hornets » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:12 pm

This is a playoff team. A lot of people haven't accepted that reality.

We have young guys(Devonte, Monk) playing for new contracts. After the Kemba debacle, we have to show we are committed to our guys. Bringing in a guy that elevates everyone around him is a great start.

Devonte was getting frustrated last season having to carry the team while being played to the vest due to our lack of shooters. We now have multiple guys ready to launch from deep. There's going to be some great games coming up, enjoy it.
Braggins
RealGM
Posts: 10,856
And1: 5,459
Joined: Jan 05, 2014
 

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#376 » by Braggins » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:34 pm

The Bogdan deal makes this like twice as embarrassing. 4/72 for Bogdon vs 4/120 for Hayward...
Vanderbilt_Grad
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,830
And1: 1,584
Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#377 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:43 pm

I love Hayward but I would rather have Bogs on that deal.
My picks:
2020 Draft - Tyrese Haliburton, Devin Vassell, or Onyeka Okongwu
User avatar
316Hornets
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,803
And1: 2,443
Joined: Jun 26, 2015
Location: Milky Way
   

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#378 » by 316Hornets » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:55 pm

Bogdan only plays 1 side. The guy only started 28 games last year on a BAD Kings team.
Braggins
RealGM
Posts: 10,856
And1: 5,459
Joined: Jan 05, 2014
 

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#379 » by Braggins » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:58 pm

316Hornets wrote:This is a playoff team. A lot of people haven't accepted that reality.

We have young guys(Devonte, Monk) playing for new contracts. After the Kemba debacle, we have to show we are committed to our guys. Bringing in a guy that elevates everyone around him is a great start.

Devonte was getting frustrated last season having to carry the team while being played to the vest due to our lack of shooters. We now have multiple guys ready to launch from deep. There's going to be some great games coming up, enjoy it.

Ok, here is some reality. Our core for next season that we will be relying no to win us games is...

Gordon Hayward - Devontae Graham - Terry Rozier - PJ Washington

Lets compare that to the cores of the rest of the conference.

Atlanta: Trae Young - Bogdon Bogdonavic - John Collins - Danilo Gallinari - Clint Capela
Boston: Jayson Tatum - Kemba Walker - Jaylen Brown
Brooklyn: Kevin Durant - Kyrie Irving - Caris LeVert - Joe Harris - Jarrett Allen
Miami: Jimmy Butler - Bam Adebayo - Goran Dragic - Tyler Herro
Milwaukee: Giannis Antetokounmpo - Khris Middleton - Jrue Holiday
Philadelphia: Joel Embiid - Ben Simmons - Tobias Harris
Toronto: Pascal Siahkam - Kyle Lowry - Fred VanVleet

All those cores are easily better than ours by a pretty big margin and thats already seven teams. Then you have...

Washington: Bradley Beal - John Wall - Davis Bertans
Indiana: Malcolm Brogdon - Victor Oladipo - TJ Warren - Damantis Sabonis

Very likely better than ours, but injury issues with Wall and Oladipo make things a little more fuzzy. The Indiana core is still better than ours without Oladipo (Brogdon = Hayward / Warren = Graham / Sabonis > Rozier), but if Wall straight up sucks we might have an edge over Washington, even though Beal is quite a bit better than Hayward, because the rest of their team is pretty meh and Graham is probably better than Bertans.

If you think our core is better than any of the teams in the first group then I think you are the one who isn't able to accept reality. Its not out of the question that we could sneak into the playoffs as an 8th seed, or maybe a 7th seed if some of the top teams have injury issues and we don't, but insisting this team is a definite playoff squad, or that they are a real threat to do anything, is a pretty big stretch. Like JG has said multiple times, we had the 4th worst point differential in the league last year and overachieved in terms of wins by a big margin and its pretty obvious our roster is pretty lacking in terms of NBA ready talent.
DY_nasty
Head Coach
Posts: 7,227
And1: 2,993
Joined: Apr 14, 2010

Re: Hayward to Charlotte 4yr/120 million 

Post#380 » by DY_nasty » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:00 pm

316 is trolling

Return to Charlotte Hornets