Fool Me Twice: The Gordon Hayward Thread

[yazfan]

Hayward is funny.

I am from Indy and have followed Haywards career starting with Butler --> Jazz --> Celtics --> Hornets.

1 of my sons is on his gaming friends list from back in butler days. They are not friends, but he is still on his list as he accepted in butler days.

Anyway, literally 1 hour after the win yesterday he was online playing a PC game, Valorant I think.

Sweet gig.

- New 120 mil contract
- Hot wife
- Acts like most kids , goes to work, comes home and games

He will also stream himself playing on twitch and talk to fans, pretty cool

[Chapelchilla]

So far, Hayward has been worth every penny of his contract. Having him as a nice piece going forward gives us a path to add even more established NBA players in the future once our young guys get the experience they need to become steady winners. I like what I see of Ball and Hayward playing together as well. Fun and unselfish basketball.

[yazfan]

So far, Hayward has been worth every penny of his contract. Having him as a nice piece going forward gives us a path to add even more established NBA players in the future once our young guys get the experience they need to become steady winners. I like what I see of Ball and Hayward playing together as well. Fun and unselfish basketball.

Agree on Hayward. Also, a lot of next years FAs have extended already, so good play.

I thought the same with Ball that he was supposed to be unselfish but there have been many times he comes down and jacks a 3 (not his shot) with 18 left on the clock......

[JMAC3]

So far, Hayward has been worth every penny of his contract. Having him as a nice piece going forward gives us a path to add even more established NBA players in the future once our young guys get the experience they need to become steady winners. I like what I see of Ball and Hayward playing together as well. Fun and unselfish basketball.

Agree on Hayward. Also, a lot of next years FAs have extended already, so good play.

I thought the same with Ball that he was supposed to be unselfish but there have been many times he comes down and jacks a 3 (not his shot) with 18 left on the clock......

I don't really have an issue with taking an early shot clock three every once in awhile. It keeps defense honest, prevents the possession from being a turnover and a lot of times the worst shots you get in a game are in the last 3 seconds of the shot clock and it prevents that.

Now if it becomes a thing that is happening 5+ times a game then yeah... maybe chill but it feels like a results based take. You hardly ever see someone complain when a player pulls up from three right away and it goes in.

[Snidely FC]

now that we are a couple weeks into the season I have to say I find myself wondering more than ever, why sign Gordon Hayward??? The guy is obviously a good basketball player and a good guy, but he is not gonna make a difference in the Hornets playoff fortunes, and not gonna put butts in arena seats the way he would in Indiana. He really ought to be a Pacer. Still can't figure out what he's doing in Charlotte

[JMAC3]

now that we are a couple weeks into the season I have to say I find myself wondering more than ever, why sign Gordon Hayward??? The guy is obviously a good basketball player and a good guy, but he is not gonna make a difference in the Hornets playoff fortunes, and not gonna put butts in arena seats the way he would in Indiana. He really ought to be in Indiana. Still can't figure out why we need him in Charlotte

We signed him for the next 4 years, not the first 10 games he plays in. Kind of crazy that we are judging the signing off such a small sample size especially when you look around the league and look at teams records and how many "bad" teams have good records and "good" teams have bad records. Even with Hayward and Biz being older the 9 man rotation we have been using last couple games has an average age of 24.5 years old essentially which has to be one of the youngest rotations in the league.

He has had two 28 point games as well, so it is not like he has been garbage. He is averaging 19/5/5 on 46/36/93%... give it time man.

[Chapelchilla]

now that we are a couple weeks into the season I have to say I find myself wondering more than ever, why sign Gordon Hayward??? The guy is obviously a good basketball player and a good guy, but he is not gonna make a difference in the Hornets playoff fortunes, and not gonna put butts in arena seats the way he would in Indiana. He really ought to be a Pacer. Still can't figure out what he's doing in Charlotte

We signed to him to be a mentor to the young kids and to have an impact on winning by being an above average small forward. Considering we have beaten the Nets and Mavs while he is putting up good numbers, I would say this was a success. We are still in a rebuild mode though so it will benefit us to lose more then we win for another year while we round out the roster (big men needed badly and another 2 guard, maybe MonK) and the young guys get experience. If we are still bad in 2023, you may be correct.

[Liver_Pooty]

now that we are a couple weeks into the season I have to say I find myself wondering more than ever, why sign Gordon Hayward??? The guy is obviously a good basketball player and a good guy, but he is not gonna make a difference in the Hornets playoff fortunes, and not gonna put butts in arena seats the way he would in Indiana. He really ought to be a Pacer. Still can't figure out what he's doing in Charlotte

We signed to him to be a mentor to the young kids and to have an impact on winning by being an above average small forward. Considering we have beaten the Nets and Mavs while he is putting up good numbers, I would say this was a success. We are still in a rebuild mode though so it will benefit us to lose more then we win for another year while we round out the roster (big men needed badly and another 2 guard, maybe MonK) and the young guys get experience. If we are still bad in 2023, you may be correct.

Agreed.

[yosemiteben]

We signed to him to be a mentor to the young kids and to have an impact on winning by being an above average small forward.

Perhaps.

Dead horse time, but I'm of the firm belief that it shouldn't require dedicating $40M in cap space to check those two boxes.

[DY_nasty]

mentors typically come from the coaching level anyways. but yeah dead horse

i haven't disliked hayward though. definitely better than the stephen jackson experience so far

[Chapelchilla]

We signed to him to be a mentor to the young kids and to have an impact on winning by being an above average small forward.

Perhaps.

Dead horse time, but I'm of the firm belief that it shouldn't require dedicating $40M in cap space to check those two boxes.

I am pretty sure that is just about exactly what it costs in the NBA these days. An established player with all star caliber capability and free agent status is not going to be cheap to bring in.

[yosemiteben]

We signed to him to be a mentor to the young kids and to have an impact on winning by being an above average small forward.

Perhaps.

Dead horse time, but I'm of the firm belief that it shouldn't require dedicating $40M in cap space to check those two boxes.

I am pretty sure that is just about exactly what it costs in the NBA these days. An established player with all star caliber capability and free agent status is not going to be cheap to bring in.

6 total NBA players are getting paid the amount of cap space that we are committing to Hayward this season.

The Pistons signed Jerami Grant last offseason and are paying him $19M. If the only metrics for success are mentor young guys and above average wing, would much rather have him.

My point is I am apparently way more demanding with what I expect out of Hayward to justify that contract than lots of other folks around here.

[Chapelchilla]

I get what your saying sort of but you are punishing Hayward for the previous regimes salary cap mismanagement. Plus, we were already paying Batum 27 million this year. So he is only making 3 million more then that already spent $.
We’re not the Lakers here and getting a good player in here a year early was likely much better then not at all.
His last year is at “only” 30 million too. By my calculations it’s 3 million, 39 million, 39 million and 30 mill.
28 Million avg per year of usable, new money. I think he is well worth that outlay if he stays healthy.

[yosemiteben]

I get what your saying sort of but you are punishing Hayward for the previous regimes salary cap mismanagement. Plus, we were already paying Batum 27 million this year. So he is only making 3 million more then that already spent $.

I mean... We doubled down on the cap waste specifically so we could sign Hayward, I don't know why we ignore it for purposes of quantifying how much cap space we are committing to him.

And my point still stands - if we're going to commit $40M in cap space, let's aim higher than nice guy and above average.

[JMAC3]

Quick Hayward Comp to how he is performing this year vs how he performed last year for Boston.

2019 Hayward- Celtics
33 mins-17.5 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 4.2 assists on 50/38/85 shooting shooting percentages

2020 Hayward- Hornets
33 mins- 18.7 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 4.7 assists 47/34/94 shooting percentages

Shot Breakdown
Player
Distance- Percentage of shots attempted from distance/Shooting Percentage from said Distance

2019 Hayward- Celtics
0-3 Feet- 21%/ 75%
3-10 Feet- 18.5%/ 44.5%
10-16 Feet- 17%/ 49%
16- 3P- 11%/ 45.5%
3P - 31.5%/ 38%

2020 Hayward- Hornets
0-3 Feet- 22%/ 75%
3-10 Feet- 18%/ 30%
10-16 Feet- 15%/ 50%
16- 3P- 13%/ 50%
3P - 32%/ 34%

Recap: He is putting up nearly the same numbers. On the same types of shots. On the same types of percentages. He is shooting slightly worse from three point range thus far this year, but slightly better from midrange this year. Which is nice to see because his shooting is not down across the board even with the finger injury. Crazy he is shooting 75% at the rim, we need him to keep that up and also if he could find a way to get more shots at the rim that would be awesome. Given the sample is small so far this year, but just wanted to check and see if I saw any major differences in shot profiles and everything seems to be about the same.

[HornetJail]

Quick Hayward Comp to how he is performing this year vs how he performed last year for Boston.

2019 Hayward- Celtics
33 mins-17.5 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 4.2 assists on 50/38/85 shooting shooting percentages

2020 Hayward- Hornets
33 mins- 18.7 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 4.7 assists 47/34/94 shooting percentages

Shot Breakdown
Player
Distance- Percentage of shots attempted from distance/Shooting Percentage from said Distance

2019 Hayward- Celtics
0-3 Feet- 21%/ 75%
3-10 Feet- 18.5%/ 44.5%
10-16 Feet- 17%/ 49%
16- 3P- 11%/ 45.5%
3P - 31.5%/ 38%

2020 Hayward- Hornets
0-3 Feet- 22%/ 75%
3-10 Feet- 18%/ 30%
10-16 Feet- 15%/ 50%
16- 3P- 13%/ 50%
3P - 32%/ 34%

Recap: He is putting up nearly the same numbers. On the same types of shots. On the same types of percentages. He is shooting slightly worse from three point range thus far this year, but slightly better from midrange this year. Which is nice to see because his shooting is not down across the board even with the finger injury. Crazy he is shooting 75% at the rim, we need him to keep that up and also if he could find a way to get more shots at the rim that would be awesome. Given the sample is small so far this year, but just wanted to check and see if I saw any major differences in shot profiles and everything seems to be about the same.

this is actually pretty good to see. the downside is he's putting up his last season's 3rd/4th option numbers, as a 1st option for us. He needs to assert himself a bit more when others aren't pulling their weight. That's what a $120M man is supposed to do.

[Chapelchilla]

I think 44 pts and 7 boards is plenty to show exactly why we had to pay the guy to get the talent level he has in here.
It changes our culture positively to attract talent that impacts winning now but even more importantly winning MORE in the future. We can’t be sad sacks forever and Then flip a switch to become winners. We needed Hayward to raise the bar a bit and inject character into the mix. Then add in our young guys getting better with hard work and aging into their primes. Finally- add some size and Meanness next year with another FA and draft picks.
Dude just plays the right way. If healthy, well worth it.

[BigSlam]

I think 44 pts and 7 boards is plenty to show exactly why we had to pay the guy to get the talent level he has in here.

If that is the justification though couldn’t you say the same thing about Terry after he put up 42 on opening night?

And Terry costs a fraction of what Hayward does?


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[Chapelchilla]

I think 44 pts and 7 boards is plenty to show exactly why we had to pay the guy to get the talent level he has in here.

If that is the justification though couldn’t you say the same thing about Terry after he put up 42 on opening night?

And Terry costs a fraction of what Hayward does?

I haven’t complained about Terry’s contract at all. I think he is good.

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[vtime]

He’s been worth every Penny!