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Center Options

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Re: Center Options 

Post#401 » by JDR720 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:41 am

Potential Trade Targets:

Jarrett Allen?
Theis?
Turner?
Adams?

2022 Free Agents:

Nurcic
Zubac
Cody Zeller (yep, I'd consider bringing him back)
Drummond
Kanter
Bamba
Harrell
Bagley
Boucher
Portis

Draft Prospects:

Chet Holmgren: His name is Chet. I don't like him.
Jalen Duren : Sure, why not.
Paolo Banchero: Fancy name.
Yannick Nzosa: He is from Congo, so he is Bismack 2.0.
Mark Williams: Generic name, potential star?
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Re: Center Options 

Post#402 » by luciano-davidwesley » Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:01 am

It's never a good sign seeing this thread on page one of the forum. We may as well sticky it seeing as though it seems we will never have a good center :lol:
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Re: Center Options 

Post#403 » by Soul Rebel » Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:14 am

JDR720 wrote:Potential Trade Targets:

Jarrett Allen? Yes, but I don't think CLE trades him.
Theis? Doesn't move the needle enough and he's undersized.
Turner? Yes, please. I think this is the most likely. Hopefully, PJ + something gets it done.
Adams? If available, I'm in.

2022 Free Agents:

Nurcic I like it.
Zubac Yup, let's do it.
Cody Zeller (yep, I'd consider bringing him back) Nah.
Drummond Negative
Kanter Nope
Bamba One of my faves from last year.
Harrell Nope...undersized and already shunned us.
Bagley Meh. Prefer not.
Boucher No.
Portis Couldn't hurt, but does he fix our problems?

Draft Prospects: No to all of these. Kai is probably our future 5 and we still have Richards, Thor and Vern in the pipeline.

Chet Holmgren: His name is Chet. I don't like him.
Jalen Duren : Sure, why not.
Paolo Banchero: Fancy name.
Yannick Nzosa: He is from Congo, so he is Bismack 2.0.
Mark Williams: Generic name, potential star?
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Re: Center Options 

Post#404 » by euphorbus » Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:42 am

Demarcus Cousins is still available. He is only 31.
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Re: Center Options 

Post#405 » by Diop » Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:58 am

I’d still like to give harry Giles a go for now
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Re: Center Options 

Post#406 » by Soul Rebel » Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:02 am

I know it’s a pipe dream, but curious what we would have to give up for Ayton?

I’m going to assume a Hayward + Washington + 2 FRPs won’t get it done. Would it cost us Miles + ?

He’s a RFA this summer now, could we offer top money that PHX won’t match?
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Re: Center Options 

Post#407 » by Roll Tide 09 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:04 am

This isn’t even a hard decision…Cousins needs to be signed so he can give us a solid 12 and 8 every night and a Veteran’s presence. If he even got back to 70%, he could give us 22 and 10.


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Center Options 

Post#408 » by Roll Tide 09 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:06 am

Soul Rebel wrote:I know it’s a pipe dream, but curious what we would have to give up for Ayton?

I’m going to assume a Hayward + Washington + 2 FRPs won’t get it done. Would it cost us Miles + ?

He’s a RFA this summer now, could we offer top money that PHX won’t match?

If we give up Miles, we can go ahead and send Ball somewhere else because he will not resign here.

Washington + Hayward + two 1st round picks

For

Ayton + two 2nd round picks


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Re: Center Options 

Post#409 » by fatlever » Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:03 am

kick tires on boucher? raps not playing him much lately
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Re: Center Options 

Post#410 » by bravor » Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:36 am

Mitchell Robinson is also FA at the end of this season (not saying he would be perfect, but he would be a more reasonable option).

I just hope Kupchak is more cold blooded than many here.

Among future draftees you could also add Ballo from Mali (even though he has been disappointing so far with Gonzaga, we will see this season).
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Re: Center Options 

Post#411 » by Snidely FC » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:21 pm

I would go after Mitchell Robinson

Is Rozier contract going to hamper ability to compete for big contracts like Robinson?
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Re: Center Options 

Post#412 » by GoBobs » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:59 pm

At this point I would give biyombo a call
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Re: Center Options 

Post#413 » by Snidely FC » Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:04 pm

Trade for Robin Lopez?
he is extraneous in ORL not saying he is great but 7fter could be band aid this season
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Re: Center Options 

Post#414 » by MPM » Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:18 pm

Last year on Clips, Boogie sported a 19.6 TRB% and had a 1.8 DBPM.

Mason is 15.4% this year, Nick is 9.5% (his rebounding has been atrocious), with a .2 and -.7 DBPM respectively.

I get these stats are relative to context but they paint a loose picture.

Cousins would also lend a toughness our frontcourt (and team) seems to sorely lack.

No need to give up assets for another middling big -- cut Nick (who I think has zero value), sign Cousins. Start Cousins after he’s in game shape, bring Mason off bench where his passing would have more value. It’s not ideal but would make us better.

I just don’t see a realistic way to get an above average frontcourt defender/rebounder without giving up more than we should. This said, the Hayward/Simmons fake trade ideas are intriguing.

EDIT - maybe, maybe, maybe you could get someone to gift us a protected 2nd for Nick rather than cutting him, but I genuinely doubt it. Also, someone else mentioned Giles. Giles is very solid rebounder, still only 23, has legit size, and would also only cost us a cut Nick.
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Re: Center Options 

Post#415 » by Rays Pompadour » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:09 pm

Well, I'm not that happy with the resurrection of this thread, but there's something besides the obvious need that colors everything the Hornets do. I found this quote from a recent ESPN article on Lamelo Ball:

"No unifying theory exists for why certain franchises succeed and certain ones fail. But those around the NBA who have come through Charlotte over the past 15 years, a strong consensus emerges about why, in addition to its drafting missteps, the team has perpetually found itself near the bottom of the standings:

Money."

You can find the article here behind its paywall: [https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32533922/what-lamelo-ball-superstar-rise-means-michael-jordan-charlotte-hornets]

A little later in the article, the source of the Hornets' ineptitude is revealed:

"There's a poetic irony about Jordan's reluctance to spend on the franchise, his critics say. He has a principled belief that today's NBA players shouldn't require any more amenities to win than he did. The constant requests for round-the-clock meals, massage therapists, training and development staffs larger than the entire 1990s Bulls' organization and upgraded facilities are almost an affront to the competitive nature of pro basketball.

The very quality that made him the most dominant player in the history of the game has also held the Hornets back."

Not only is Borrego had for on the cheap but Kupchak is also, according to the article, paid under the mean for NBA GM's. And while it would be tempting to point fingers at the one who signs the paychecks, I look a step behind the podium and see a more likely villain: Curtis Polk.

I like Polk. He's made Jordan a lot of money and he can rub two nickels together. And anyone who can stand toe-to-toe with Jordan on a competitive basis deserves some type of combat pay. But at some point, the accountants have to stop running the franchise. All is not broken in Charlotte. They lucked out drafting Ball and Kupchak is the plodder the Hornets have needed for a long time. And as Jordan trusts Polk, he also trusts Kupchak, so there's hope for a culture shift.

Yet this brings me back to my main point. The Hornets' need for a starting center is obvious. Plumlee is average and probably a backup. Richards and Carey are developmental players. Jones probably should not be considered a center and more than PJ Washington should. And the Hornets are losing because they offer too many second chance opportunities to their opponents - and you can point directly to the center position as why.

So...why doesn't the team address this obvious need? Money.

Charlotte has no roster spot for Cousins. If they were to sign him, they'd have to waive a guaranteed contract. You don't do that from a business perspective unless you have to or the cost benefit favors you. The cost would be one of your two developmental bigs, probably Richards due to lower guarantees, and the actual cost of Cousins' contract. Shades of Derrick Coleman come to mind with Cousins.

Charlotte could trade for a player, but what opposing team is willing to do a deal this early in the season? The Hornets had the opportunity to pursue a player such as Holmes or Theis, but chose to add draft picks instead. Adding a Cousins would go against that approach and would be another negative cost, and that development of the young draftees. The investment in Greensboro can't be ignored.

Bottom line, when we go forward in discussion of center options, we should pay attention to what the Hornets are paying attention to, and that's the bottom line. And if we continue to be frustrated that the Hornets are undervaluing wins by not addressing the obvious center need, well, then, we'll at least know why.
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Re: Center Options 

Post#416 » by MPM » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:21 pm

Rays Pompadour wrote:

Charlotte has no roster spot for Cousins. If they were to sign him, they'd have to waive a guaranteed contract. You don't do that from a business perspective unless you have to or the cost benefit favors you. The cost would be one of your two developmental bigs, probably Richards due to lower guarantees, and the actual cost of Cousins' contract. Shades of Derrick Coleman come to mind with Cousins.

Charlotte could trade for a player, but what opposing team is willing to do a deal this early in the season? The Hornets had the opportunity to pursue a player such as Holmes or Theis, but chose to add draft picks instead. Adding a Cousins would go against that approach and would be another negative cost, and that development of the young draftees. The investment in Greensboro can't be ignored.

Bottom line, when we go forward in discussion of center options, we should pay attention to what the Hornets are paying attention to, and that's the bottom line. And if we continue to be frustrated that the Hornets are undervaluing wins by not addressing the obvious center need, well, then, we'll at least know why.


Excellent post, but reality is that Richards is a late second rounder who will be 24 in two weeks and is abysmal. There's no 'development of young draftees' going on with him. Giles is a better (and younger) option. Hornets' long term value rests on building a winning culture around LaMelo - we are not currently doing that at least in terms of our apathy toward frontcourt deficiencies. At least show we're trying to move the needle. If you can move Richards for a protected second it costs us nothing and if you can't it says an awful lot about Richards' value around the league and to the Hornets.

Also, you're not really hamstringing the organization - Nick makes 1.5mm, both Giles and Cousins would undoubtedly sign for the min - add a team option in case either shows out. If we can't do this, it basically confirms a bit of what the ESPN piece infers.
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Re: Center Options 

Post#417 » by Roll Tide 09 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:45 pm

The Lakers might be willing to toss us one or two first round picks for Washington. If so, we could then sign Cousins. Washington, Monk, and Reaves off the bench would actually help them a lot because James isn’t going to put up with the lackluster version of Washington.


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Re: Center Options 

Post#418 » by amcoolio » Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:29 pm

The Hornets need Cousins like the Panthers need Odell Beckham

We need someone that can come in and rebound, and be physical, even if they don't block shots.

Biyombo can't do that either
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Re: Center Options 

Post#419 » by Rays Pompadour » Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:31 pm

Here's the narrative: "We drafted and are developing Nick Richards. He's our backup center. Last night against the Grizzlies, he came in, gave great effort in solid minutes. Got two blocks and allowed Mason a blow. That's what we need right now and he's only going to get better."

Later in the interview that never happened, Kupchak was asked about pursuing another big for injury protection or possibly an upgrade over Plumlee. "We may make a move if the right one presents itself, but we like our team and we're not looking to make a trade at this time."

Behold, King Richards.
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Re: Center Options 

Post#420 » by fatlever » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:40 pm

If the Panthers can bring back team Legend Cam Newton, then certainly the Hornets can bring back bismack biyombo.

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