GT: Game #4 - Charlotte @ Dallas (Dec 30)

[BigSlam]

Hey LaMelo: See that Luka kid? Do that.

[JMAC3]

Great News for this one, we should be able to compete at the center position with Biz/PJ vs Kleber, Powell, Marjanovic, WCS. They are all basically averaging basically 5 pts and 3 rebounds.

Biz averaging 9.3 pgg and 6.3 rpg and PJ averaging 12ppg and 7.3 rebs

[Liver_Pooty]

A win here would be nice to go into Fridays game with Memphis with Morant out.

[HornetJail]

Luka is going to rip us a new one.

Also this is the kind of matchup where I could honestly see Boban getting some significant burn for Dallas. Can you imagine PJ's little ass trying to guard a 7'4 dude in the post?

[BigSlam]

Great News for this one, we should be able to compete at the center position with Biz/PJ vs Kleber, Powell, Marjanovic, WCS. They are all basically averaging basically 5 pts and 3 rebounds.

Biz averaging 9.3 pgg and 6.3 rpg and PJ averaging 12ppg and 7.3 rebs

Sport isn’t played on paper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DY_nasty]

i'll be interested in seeing what we did after our first bit of time off

not expecting much, but i'd like to see if we tightened up the guard decision making a bit.

Great News for this one, we should be able to compete at the center position with Biz/PJ vs Kleber, Powell, Marjanovic, WCS. They are all basically averaging basically 5 pts and 3 rebounds.

Biz averaging 9.3 pgg and 6.3 rpg and PJ averaging 12ppg and 7.3 rebs

Sport isn’t played on paper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

preach. plus its way too early in the season to be propping up averages either way.

[JMAC3]

Great News for this one, we should be able to compete at the center position with Biz/PJ vs Kleber, Powell, Marjanovic, WCS. They are all basically averaging basically 5 pts and 3 rebounds.

Biz averaging 9.3 pgg and 6.3 rpg and PJ averaging 12ppg and 7.3 rebs

Sport isn’t played on paper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed, but still they do not have anyone who should simply dominate us at center is my point.

If they want to play Boban and throw it inside to him every play instead of letting Luka have ball, I am all for that.

[DY_nasty]

that's not how it works lol

okc didn't just dump the ball downlow to anyone. Brooklyn treating us like preseason and testing dribble hand offs with Joe Harris and KD at center isn't some indicator of our ability or competence at a glaring weak spot....

but either way - we needed this time off to hopefully clean up things. maybe we finally get some looks for the young bigs

hoping JB makes up his mind with these rotations too

[JMAC3]

Also, Dallas currently ranks 29th in the NBA in offensive rebounds per game at 6.7 per game. Hornets rank 6th at 11.3 per game. All stats this early are going to be based off small sample sizes, but figured I would share anyway.

[DY_nasty]

offensive rebounding in a league that doesn't value it is whatever though. of all the things people kinda talk up when it comes to modern nba trends, the emphasis on moving away from team offensive rebounding always gets glossed over.

people wonder why our shooting is so bad - its because opposing teams are set up waiting for us lol. these late runs in games we got put away in have done the team a LOT of favors statistically as well.... i don't think the team is as bad as it was against OKC and CLE, but its certainly not as good as it was in those late comebacks either.

[JMAC3]

offensive rebounding in a league that doesn't value it is whatever though. of all the things people kinda talk up when it comes to modern nba trends, the emphasis on moving away from team offensive rebounding always gets glossed over.

people wonder why our shooting is so bad - its because opposing teams are set up waiting for us lol. these late runs in games we got put away in have done the team a LOT of favors statistically as well.... i don't think the team is as bad as it was against OKC and CLE, but its certainly not as good as it was in those late comebacks either.

If you are saying offensive rebounding numbers don't matter then you are saying altogether rebounding doesn't matter....

because they are directly correlated... If you are good at defensive rebounding then you give up few offensive rebounds. If giving up offensive rebounds doesn't matter than rebounding as a whole doesn't matter.

[DY_nasty]

offensive rebounding in a league that doesn't value it is whatever though. of all the things people kinda talk up when it comes to modern nba trends, the emphasis on moving away from team offensive rebounding always gets glossed over.

people wonder why our shooting is so bad - its because opposing teams are set up waiting for us lol. these late runs in games we got put away in have done the team a LOT of favors statistically as well.... i don't think the team is as bad as it was against OKC and CLE, but its certainly not as good as it was in those late comebacks either.

If you are saying offensive rebounding numbers don't matter then you are saying altogether rebounding doesn't matter....

because they are directly correlated... If you are good at defensive rebounding then you give up few offensive rebounds. If giving up offensive rebounds doesn't matter than rebounding as a whole doesn't matter.

no. i'm actually not saying that

its not a 1+1 thing. if you prioritize your team getting back on defense over offensive rebounding, then your focus is on preventing run outs and easy/quick looks for the opposing team. the 3pt ball is too dangerous and too consistent to worry about some putbacks here and there. our bad shooting isn't some accident or poor stretch. its teams sitting down and ready for us while we're playing struggle buckets under the rim.

[JMAC3]

offensive rebounding in a league that doesn't value it is whatever though. of all the things people kinda talk up when it comes to modern nba trends, the emphasis on moving away from team offensive rebounding always gets glossed over.

people wonder why our shooting is so bad - its because opposing teams are set up waiting for us lol. these late runs in games we got put away in have done the team a LOT of favors statistically as well.... i don't think the team is as bad as it was against OKC and CLE, but its certainly not as good as it was in those late comebacks either.

If you are saying offensive rebounding numbers don't matter then you are saying altogether rebounding doesn't matter....

because they are directly correlated... If you are good at defensive rebounding then you give up few offensive rebounds. If giving up offensive rebounds doesn't matter than rebounding as a whole doesn't matter.

no. i'm actually not saying that

but you are....

If you give up a lot offensive rebounds you are a bad defensive rebounding team...
If you give up few offensive rebounds then you are good defensive rebounding team..

You either get the defensive rebound or the other team gets the offensive rebound, not a lot of other possibilities.

[JMAC3]

its not a 1+1 thing. if you prioritize your team getting back on defense over offensive rebounding, then your focus is on preventing run outs and easy/quick looks for the opposing team. the 3pt ball is too dangerous and too consistent to worry about some putbacks here and there. our bad shooting isn't some accident or poor stretch. its teams sitting down and ready for us while we're playing struggle buckets under the rim.

Okay, but if you say "hey guys, don't go for offensive rebounds because we want to get back on defense" then the other team gets easy defensive rebounds so therefore them being a good or bad defensive rebounding team does not matter because you are giving them those easy rebounds.

[DY_nasty]

If you are saying offensive rebounding numbers don't matter then you are saying altogether rebounding doesn't matter....

because they are directly correlated... If you are good at defensive rebounding then you give up few offensive rebounds. If giving up offensive rebounds doesn't matter than rebounding as a whole doesn't matter.

no. i'm actually not saying that

but you are....

If you give up a lot offensive rebounds you are a bad defensive rebounding team...
If you give up few offensive rebounds then you are good defensive rebounding team..

You either get the defensive rebound or the other team gets the offensive rebound, not a lot of other possibilities.

You're mistaking the numbers for value and being remarkably reductive to the point where it's intentional again but sure

someone else may read this so why not

If you've got your bigs and guards collapsing the offensive glass - they're obviously not able to recover and get back on defense as quickly when they don't secure the rebound. Most NBA coaches are very finicky about who and how many players they allow to stay on the offensive glass and under what conditions they're allowed to fight for them. No one is telling their team to go all in on the offensive glass in normal situations when every NBA level guard can get up the court in seconds.

You want your defense back and set up to defend - because its much easier to deal with a team that's struggling to make the most out of second shot attempts and simply adjusting the scheme to limit that than it is to make an opposing team *not* be on fire from beyond the arc. Especially your bigs and wings because they're essential to holding up the offense's first look. To circle around to previous arguments.... this is one of the reasons why many teams are so in love with the idea of small ball. Because getting back to your offense faster than the opposing team can get back to their defense puts you on a track that will simply beat teams due to scoring trajectory.

So yeah - After the Nash Suns NBA teams learned across the board that generally speaking (and not in late game situations) offensive rebounding isn't worth what it used to be. And also with the shotclock rules changing, there's even less of a possession 'saved' by an offensive board.

Not all rebounds are the same.

[JMAC3]

Personally, I always feel like the stats that say "The Celtics are 40-7 when they win the rebounding battle" are a bit misleading myself. Because essentially what that is saying is "The other team missed more shots than you did in that game". Overall I think defensive rebounding says more about how well you are playing defense because if the other team is not missing shots then there is not many rebounds to be had.

Kind of like football when they say "when the Bears rush for over 150 yards they are 15-5" Well yeah because we are winning and running the ball and not way behind and throwing the ball. They hold some weight, but it is kind of a misleading stat in a vacuum.

[JMAC3]

no. i'm actually not saying that

but you are....

If you give up a lot offensive rebounds you are a bad defensive rebounding team...
If you give up few offensive rebounds then you are good defensive rebounding team..

You either get the defensive rebound or the other team gets the offensive rebound, not a lot of other possibilities.

You're mistaking the numbers for value and being remarkably reductive to the point where it's intentional again but sure

someone else may read this so why not

If you've got your bigs and guards collapsing the offensive glass - they're obviously not able to recover and get back on defense as quickly when they don't secure the rebound. Most NBA coaches are very finicky about who and how many players they allow to stay on the offensive glass and under what conditions they're allowed to fight for them. No one is telling their team to go all in on the offensive glass in normal situations when every NBA level guard can get up the court in seconds.

You want your defense back and set up to defend - because its much easier to deal with a team that's struggling to make the most out of second shot attempts and simply adjusting the scheme to limit that than it is to make an opposing team *not* be on fire from beyond the arc. Especially your bigs and wings because they're essential to holding up the offense's first look. To circle around to previous arguments.... this is one of the reasons why many teams are so in love with the idea of small ball. Because getting back to your offense faster than the opposing team can get back to their defense puts you on a track that will simply beat teams due to scoring trajectory.

So yeah - After the Nash Suns NBA teams learned across the board that generally speaking (and not in late game situations) offensive rebounding isn't worth what it used to be. And also with the shotclock rules changing, there's even less of a possession 'saved' by an offensive board.

Not all rebounds are the same.

I am not arguing about transition defense at all lol. I get that you don't just say hey guys all of you go for the rebound... I am not an idiot. I played basketball at a high level for a long time and understand rebounding principals. I also understand that Clifford had this view of just get back on defense and forget offensive rebounding, it is a strategy teams use. I get that.

My point is solely based on if you do not care about offensive rebounding then you put no pressure on the other teams defensive rebounding hence making it less impactful. Aka defensive rebounding is less important if the other team is not attempting to challenge you for rebounds. So if offensive rebounding is not important and both teams are just conceding to getting back then defensive rebounding is not important to some degree.

[DY_nasty]

Its not transition defense if they don't have the ball yet.

[JMAC3]

It's not basketball if there is no ball.

[DY_nasty]

It's not basketball if there is no ball.

This is what I mean lol

I'm not even being a dick but you get reductive and obtuse. If a team has 2 or 3 of their players already backpedaling as soon as a shot goes up, that's *not* transition defense. That's just a clear, deliberate emphasis to not invest heavily in offensive rebounding. They're back, and set - ready to play defense. If the guys allowed to make a play on the ball do just that - good. If not, they're prepared nonetheless.

And that same philosophy is a big reason as to why our shooting is so bad. Defenses are sitting down and waiting on us. So there's the tie between shooting/rebounding.

This isn't some gigantic stretch of basketball theory and assumption. Its explanation and context. Hell, you can read up on the logic behind the recent shotclock changes regarding offensive rebounds too if you want. This is not an attack on you as a person no need to get butthurt and petulant every time someone says something that doesn't massage your balls man.