Bathed in the Rapture of Mark Williams Thread

[yosemiteben]

That is fine, but we just saw how not playing tanked Bouk and Kai trade value after 1 year. They were valued less than a first round pick immediately, so they didn't hold their value. Mitch probably was concerned that could happen again.

Then make better picks. IMO this is some ass backward logic. "I'm going to trade my lotto pick for a guaranteed non lotto pick next year because I'm worried my lotto pick will lose value" should not be part of the thought process of a competent GM that is confident in his scouting department.

If the Nuggets were 4 seed in west instead of 1 and the Jazz were bottom 5 like many expected I don't think we would all be so pissed, but maybe I am wrong.

They had a 2X MVP and injury issues and so we were hoping that they'd continue to underperform. Seems like a pretty unwise bet, and that's a big part of why I'm critical of the trade.

Pick 22 and 35 and 3 more seconds wouldn't be the worst return ever.

"One hypothetical outcome wouldn't have been the worst return ever" is not a real defense though. I know there are reasons why the trade was done, I just think they are bad value ones.

[amcoolio]

To me it does seem that the Hornets front office is not respected and it's just low ball after low ball and we won't end up with any trades

[yosemiteben]

To me it does seem that the Hornets front office is not respected and it's just low ball after low ball and we won't end up with any trades

I don't get the logic of us not being respected = we won't do any trades

Is the thought that, assuming the net value on both sides of the final offer is the same, teams would offer higher value to other teams than they would to us after we reject low ball offers? That they will arbitrarily not offer us market value offers just because they don't like us?

[JMAC3]

Then make better picks. IMO this is some ass backward logic. "I'm going to trade my lotto pick for a guaranteed non lotto pick next year because I'm worried my lotto pick will lose value" should not be part of the thought process of a competent GM that is confident in his scouting department.

They had a 2X MVP and injury issues and so we were hoping that they'd continue to underperform. Seems like a pretty unwise bet, and that's a big part of why I'm critical of the trade.

I don't think the picks being "bad" matters. If the Hornets would of stashed Griffin, Duren or whoever in the gleague all year their value would of went down.

The Nuggets were the 6th seed last year, they have been lucky the Suns, Clippers and Warriors are all banged up all year.

Personally, we don't have to agree, but I don't really care if it was the 13th or 15th pick we traded. We could of selected Mark 13th and probably done the same deal at 15. Does that change your view on this guaranteed lotto pick?

You are looking at the trade in hindsight. In hindsight? Yes the deal looks way worse than it did in the moment.


If the Miles would have played, Hornets were at risk of not having their pick and Denver was mid and the pick was 20 you would probably be fine with the deal.

[NCHeels2008]

Then make better picks. IMO this is some ass backward logic. "I'm going to trade my lotto pick for a guaranteed non lotto pick next year because I'm worried my lotto pick will lose value" should not be part of the thought process of a competent GM that is confident in his scouting department.

They had a 2X MVP and injury issues and so we were hoping that they'd continue to underperform. Seems like a pretty unwise bet, and that's a big part of why I'm critical of the trade.

I don't think the picks being "bad" matters. If the Hornets would of stashed Griffin, Duren or whoever in the gleague all year their value would of went down.

The Nuggets were the 6th seed last year, they have been lucky the Suns, Clippers and Warriors are all banged up all year.

Personally, we don't have to agree, but I don't really care if it was the 13th or 15th pick we traded. We could of selected Mark 13th and probably done the same deal at 15. Does that change your view on this guaranteed lotto pick?

You are looking at the trade in hindsight. In hindsight? Yes the deal looks way worse than it did in the moment.


If the Miles would have played, Hornets were at risk of not having their pick and Denver was mid and the pick was 20 you would probably be fine with the deal.

Better a mid 1st who doesn't play than the 29th pick and a raft of throw ins

[JMAC3]

Then make better picks. IMO this is some ass backward logic. "I'm going to trade my lotto pick for a guaranteed non lotto pick next year because I'm worried my lotto pick will lose value" should not be part of the thought process of a competent GM that is confident in his scouting department.

They had a 2X MVP and injury issues and so we were hoping that they'd continue to underperform. Seems like a pretty unwise bet, and that's a big part of why I'm critical of the trade.

I don't think the picks being "bad" matters. If the Hornets would of stashed Griffin, Duren or whoever in the gleague all year their value would of went down.

The Nuggets were the 6th seed last year, they have been lucky the Suns, Clippers and Warriors are all banged up all year.

Personally, we don't have to agree, but I don't really care if it was the 13th or 15th pick we traded. We could of selected Mark 13th and probably done the same deal at 15. Does that change your view on this guaranteed lotto pick?

You are looking at the trade in hindsight. In hindsight? Yes the deal looks way worse than it did in the moment.


If the Miles would have played, Hornets were at risk of not having their pick and Denver was mid and the pick was 20 you would probably be fine with the deal.

Better a mid 1st who doesn't play than the 29th pick and a raft of throw ins

Yeah agreed, in hindsight we lost the deal lol... but that wasn't the point.

[fatlever]

The trade looked awful in real time to 95% of Hornets fans and most basketball draft folks.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[JMAC3]

Also, just comparing him Mark to other rookies.

Based on what I have seen I prefer him to Duren, Griffin, Eason and Agbaji moving forward.

Duren- I prefer the pure size and defensive upside of Mark.

Eason- not sure Eason is long-term starter in league. Feel like Mark is. Eason has been a good surprise though.

Griffin- His shooting is great, but he is a pretty much zero factor in free throws, assists and rebounds.
As a guy who plays few mins his per 36 numbers should benefit.
They are 2.4 assists, 3.7 rebounds and 0.8 fta.
His real numbers are even worse.
Hard pass on all that, but yes he has been a good 3 point shooter. Pretty much same role he played in college.
Just scroll through his game log, he is super 1 dimensional.

Agbaji - has 2 good games all year. He has not earned a role on a meh Utah team.

[HornetJail]

The comparisons are highly misleading as Duren plays a lot of minutes vs starting centers recently while Mark gets to destroy backups that are often times not even real centers.

But I'm nothing short of thrilled what Mark has shown so far. It's what you expect from a 7'2 guy with good hands, good mobility and coordination. I can't believe how lucky we are that either one of them fell to #13/#15, let alone had our choice of both.Thought for sure some combo of SAS/WAS/OKC were going to snatch those two up.

Duren has played a lot vs backups as well. He has started 16/41 games.

What was the final tally in what we traded that pick away for? like a late late 1st (DEN/MIL?) and 3 crappy 2s?

Denver's 1st, Utah's 2nd this year, a super late 2nd this year, and 2023 and 2024 NYK 2nds. The 2023 NYK 2nd was traded to move up 5 spots in the draft to take Bryce McGowens, who looks serviceable I think.

So the 13th and 45th picks in last year's draft were traded for McGowens, a 2024 2nd, and picks 29, 44, and 52 in 2023 as of right now.

I don't care about Duren because Mark Williams looks the part already, but my god at least try to do SOMETHING with a lotto pick.

[JDR720]

The biggest issue with that trade was the dumb logic they used to do it. Having too many young players. Which they then went back on after they traded for Bryce, who I'm pretty sure is the youngest player on the team.

If they wanted to trade it. Simply say they wanted one of the C's and didn't like the other options, so they traded it for a future first that projects to be in the same range.

I think that was the idea. However, it was a bad idea because Denver has a potential 3X MVP and 1-2 All-Star level players coming back from injury. Should've picked another trade partner and the trade may've turned out decently, if not a slight win.

[yosemiteben]

I don't think the picks being "bad" matters. If the Hornets would of stashed Griffin, Duren or whoever in the gleague all year their value would of went down.

The Nuggets were the 6th seed last year, they have been lucky the Suns, Clippers and Warriors are all banged up all year.

Personally, we don't have to agree, but I don't really care if it was the 13th or 15th pick we traded. We could of selected Mark 13th and probably done the same deal at 15. Does that change your view on this guaranteed lotto pick?

You are looking at the trade in hindsight. In hindsight? Yes the deal looks way worse than it did in the moment.


If the Miles would have played, Hornets were at risk of not having their pick and Denver was mid and the pick was 20 you would probably be fine with the deal.

Better a mid 1st who doesn't play than the 29th pick and a raft of throw ins

Yeah agreed, in hindsight we lost the deal lol... but that wasn't the point.

If you're defending the deal by saying the value in the lotto pick would have gone down or the rotation was too crowded, then that is exactly the point.

[luciano-davidwesley]

If Detroit really wanted Duren as much as it seems they did, they definitely would have traded more than what we accepted. Mitch got owned by Weaver

[SWedd523]

If Detroit really wanted Duren as much as it seems they did, they definitely would have traded more than what we accepted. Mitch got owned by Weaver

It was way past Mitch's bedtime so he didn't want to bother with negotiating

[JMAC3]

The biggest issue with that trade was the dumb logic they used to do it. Having too many young players. Which they then went back on after they traded for Bryce, who I'm pretty sure is the youngest player on the team.

If they wanted to trade it. Simply say they wanted one of the C's and didn't like the other options, so they traded it for a future first that projects to be in the same range.

I think that was the idea. However, it was a bad idea because Denver has a potential 3X MVP and 1-2 All-Star level players coming back from injury. Should've picked another trade partner and the trade may've turned out decently, if not a slight win.

Bryce has barely played even with all the injuries that is kind of proving my point on why I think they thought it was better to keep the asset and not cash in on the pick yet.

[yosemiteben]

The biggest issue with that trade was the dumb logic they used to do it. Having too many young players. Which they then went back on after they traded for Bryce, who I'm pretty sure is the youngest player on the team.

If they wanted to trade it. Simply say they wanted one of the C's and didn't like the other options, so they traded it for a future first that projects to be in the same range.

I think that was the idea. However, it was a bad idea because Denver has a potential 3X MVP and 1-2 All-Star level players coming back from injury. Should've picked another trade partner and the trade may've turned out decently, if not a slight win.

Bryce has barely played even with all the injuries that is kind of proving my point on why I think they thought it was better to keep the asset and not cash in on the pick yet.

But it disproves your point because we haven't had depth and he still hasn't logged time - i.e., depth isn't the issue.

[wilson115]

So that's why I wanted one of those rim-protecting centers.

Watch on YouTube

[Diop]

The way he moves he really looks like he will be a real defensive presence. Smooth for his size

[JDR720]

Read on Twitter

Didn't make it.

[JMAC3]

Read on Twitter

Didn't make it.

Since adding in gleague they only take 10 rookies and sophs. Basically whoever plays the most minutes is how they pick.

Top 10 rookies in minutes were selected even Jabari Smith Jr who arguably is the worst player in the league this year.

[Braggins]

Wait, Scoot is going to be in the Rising Stars game?