Offseason Thread

[JMAC3]

Whats up guys. Coming here in peace

What do you all anticipate the FO is going to do with Washington? It sounds like Bridges is coming back, and baring the move up to 1 or 2, looks like a lot of the best options are wing/forwards.

Do you see the front office bringing him back, or potentially looking at getting some value back in a S&T?

I expect him to be back. We have been rumored to want to bring him back and we have very little future money on our books so paying Bridges and PJ is not a huge deal. Especially when they can share the floor at the same time. Hayward is on an expiring deal and he will likely come off the bench this year regardless of if he is moved.

the 24/25 cap has 3 players on it currently with Rozier, Martin and Richards locked in for under 38 million. Yes we will probably pick up a few of those team options on the young guys but even still we are talking about 50 million or close to 100 million in cap space. That is plenty of space to have PJ, Bridges and resign LaMelo. Plus we will still have a ton of guys on rookie deals so the lux tax shouldn't be an issue.

[JMAC3]

The not resign PJ department make pretty much zero sense right now regardless of the number and here is why....

Part 1.- The likely facts we have
Hornets active roster sits at 95.3 million. Ignore player cap holds for now, they will come back in a minute.
Now we also have two first round picks that have cap holds over 10 million combined depending on where our pick lands.
So now let's say we are 105 million. The cap is 134 million. So we have 29 million in true cap space.

Part 2. - The mistake scenario
With more light shining on a potential Bridges reunion happening more than ever let's assume Miles gets 20 million per year.
That could be low, but let's just use that for context.
We would have 9 million or so in cap space to sign a free agent if we renounce PJ, DSJ, Kelly, Svi, etc.
Then because we would be renouncing those rights, we would have access to the Room exception of 7.6 million because we would be operating as a below the cap team. (Forfeiting our MLE)
So in this scenario we get Bridges, 9 million for a free agent and another 7.6 for a free agent (those can't be combined).

Part 3. - The most likely scenario
Assuming the same thing as before that we give Miles his deal at 20 million.
but instead of renouncing PJ we resign him at 15 million per year and go over the cap by 6 million at 140 million.
The Lux tax is 162 million, giving us 22 million to play with to bring back Kelly or DSJ as well.
Let's say we resign Kelly at 10 million per year.
We still would have access to the full MLE of 12.2 to resign any free agent (this can be split among multiple players).
So in this scenario we get Bridges, PJ, Kelly and could still sign a good free agent.

Then the following year Hayward falls off books 31.5 million, along with Melo original 10.9 million to be able to offer him a Max contract (which is a good deal less than 42 million) plus the cap goes up, plus the lux tax line goes up. So it is really difficult to see where the long term issue of signing PJ comes back to bite us.

by the time we are worried about paying Mark, Rozier will be expired.

[LightTheBeam]

I think it depends what PJ's number is. If they can get him on a deal sub $15 million per season they keep him or match that offer sheet.

Anything over that and they'll angle for a sign and trade or let him walk as a last resort.

My number would be around $17M or $18M. I suspect the front office's number is a bit higher given they traded McDaniels rather than extending him, which is a clear vote of confidence in PJ.

I do think it depends on how the draft and the Miles Bridges situation shakes out. If we are fortunate enough to land Wembanyama (or another PF), I think that PJ number is quite a bit lower, and chance of a S&T is much higher.

I expect him to be back. We have been rumored to want to bring him back and we have very little future money on our books so paying Bridges and PJ is not a huge deal. Especially when they can share the floor at the same time. Hayward is on an expiring deal and he will likely come off the bench this year regardless of if he is moved.

the 24/25 cap has 3 players on it currently with Rozier, Martin and Richards locked in for under 38 million. Yes we will probably pick up a few of those team options on the young guys but even still we are talking about 50 million or close to 100 million in cap space. That is plenty of space to have PJ, Bridges and resign LaMelo. Plus we will still have a ton of guys on rookie deals so the lux tax shouldn't be an issue.

Hey all thanks for the responses. I agree I don't see them having an issue with resigning him money wise.

It was more so that i've seen a lot of the guys (Miller, Thompson, Walker, Dick) are all projected as 3s or 4's.

My thinking was that with one of those guys/Bridges taking up the starting 3/4 spots long term, would the team commit to giving PJ 15-20 million to be a bench player?

I know 2 years ago he spent a ton of time as a small ball center for you, and Bridges can slide between the 3/4, so as the first 3-5 off the bench I'm sure he will have starters minutes even in a bench role.

[luciano-davidwesley]

The not resign PJ department make pretty much zero sense right now regardless of the number and here is why....

Part 1.- The likely facts we have
Hornets active roster sits at 95.3 million. Ignore player cap holds for now, they will come back in a minute.
Now we also have two first round picks that have cap holds over 10 million combined depending on where our pick lands.
So now let's say we are 105 million. The cap is 134 million. So we have 29 million in true cap space.

Part 2. - The mistake scenario
With more light shining on a potential Bridges reunion happening more than ever let's assume Miles gets 20 million per year.
That could be low, but let's just use that for context.
We would have 9 million or so in cap space to sign a free agent if we renounce PJ, DSJ, Kelly, Svi, etc.
Then because we would be renouncing those rights, we would have access to the Room exception of 7.6 million because we would be operating as a below the cap team. (Forfeiting our MLE)
So in this scenario we get Bridges, 9 million for a free agent and another 7.6 for a free agent (those can't be combined).

Part 3. - The most likely scenario
Assuming the same thing as before that we give Miles his deal at 20 million.
but instead of renouncing PJ we resign him at 15 million per year and go over the cap by 6 million at 140 million.
The Lux tax is 162 million, giving us 22 million to play with to bring back Kelly or DSJ as well.
Let's say we resign Kelly at 10 million per year.
We still would have access to the full MLE of 12.2 to resign any free agent (this can be split among multiple players).
So in this scenario we get Bridges, PJ, Kelly and could still sign a good free agent.

Then the following year Hayward falls off books 31.5 million, along with Melo original 10.9 million to be able to offer him a Max contract (which is a good deal less than 42 million) plus the cap goes up, plus the lux tax line goes up. So it is really difficult to see where the long term issue of signing PJ comes back to bite us.

by the time we are worried about paying Mark, Rozier will be expired.

Yeah I think we will be signing and trading PJ at worst. I don't see a scenario where he just walks.

[JMAC3]

Yeah I think we will be signing and trading PJ at worst. I don't see a scenario where he just walks.

For what tho? He is young, plays a position of need, fits with our core, we have the money.

What are we getting in return? Are you expecting a better player to be sent back?

A pick and a worse player? more than likely that player will make a similar salary to PJ.

We have a ton of picks in this draft, on a team with a ton of youth. I doubt the team is dying to add another under 22 yr old player with whatever pick they could get back.

[luciano-davidwesley]

Yeah I think we will be signing and trading PJ at worst. I don't see a scenario where he just walks.

For what tho? He is young, plays a position of need, fits with our core, we have the money.

What are we getting in return? Are you expecting a better player to be sent back?

A pick and a worse player? more than likely that player will make a similar salary to PJ.

We have a ton of picks in this draft, on a team with a ton of youth. I doubt the team is dying to add another under 22 yr old player with whatever pick they could get back.

I think he's likely to stay personally. But if his number gets pushed up over $17 million per we might try to use his RFA status to blackmail a team into a sign and trade like we did with Devonte Graham

[NCHeels2008]

I think PJ has negative value at $17M+ if he isn't a starter next year and if we draft a wing and bring back Miles (which seems like a lock) we are better off doing a S&T or trying to bring the rookie off the bench to start at least because you don't wanna lose PJ's buy in when he's been such a good soldier.

On a sep. note, am I crazy for wanting the Hornets to buy low on Jordan Poole? I think people are getting off of him too fast, he showed some truly special creation skills and its not that rare for a player to regress for a season after taking a leap the year before.

[Rich4114]

If you want to make a splashy trade with the pick I would vote more Jaylen Brown if he is available.

Would love to find a way to get Brown. I know Tatum gets all of the attention in Boston but they aren’t nearly as good without Brown. He plays a smart, efficient game on both ends and knows how to win. Ideal 2 guard next to LaMelo. Maybe if Boston falls apart in the playoffs they explore moving him but he’d cost a ton I imagine.

[Hornet Mania]

I think PJ has negative value at $17M+ if he isn't a starter next year and if we draft a wing and bring back Miles (which seems like a lock) we are better off doing a S&T or trying to bring the rookie off the bench to start at least because you don't wanna lose PJ's buy in when he's been such a good soldier.

On a sep. note, am I crazy for wanting the Hornets to buy low on Jordan Poole? I think people are getting off of him too fast, he showed some truly special creation skills and its not that rare for a player to regress for a season after taking a leap the year before.

Hard no to Jordan Poole.

I hear you, but the price is too high for a buy-low. If he comes to our, not exactly stable, environment and stinks it up like this we've got one of the worst contract in the league with no way to move off of it. GSW would need to attach at least a 1st, two if they're protected, for me to seriously consider it.

Personally I think this is the real Jordan Poole. He's a guy who can go on a heater or make a series of mind-numbingly stupid decisions depending on the day. He's not suited to be a foundational piece and unfortunately with that contract that's what he has to be or it's a severe overpay. His minutes were declining round-by-round during the 2022 playoffs already because Kerr was losing confidence in him. The FO was basically forced to pay up or lose him for nothing so they bit the bullet. Since the Dubs are all sorts of rich I get taking that shot to extend the championship window but they lost that bet and we don't need to bail them out.

On the topic of Jaylen Brown if he weren't going to be an UFA in 2024 I'd offer our pick (assuming it's not 1st overall) plus PJ. As it is I doubt he'd re-sign if we have our typical 35-40ish win season next year so it's not very smart to offer a cost-controlled high lotto pick for a rental. He'd be the perfect backcourt mate for Melo though, and someone who could push our guys to give effort on defense. Cliff preaches it of course but it's always better when the players police themselves.

[Rich4114]

Brown is a UFA after next season the same season we are free of the Hayward contract?

[SWedd523]

If you want to make a splashy trade with the pick I would vote more Jaylen Brown if he is available.

Would love to find a way to get Brown. I know Tatum gets all of the attention in Boston but they aren’t nearly as good without Brown. He plays a smart, efficient game on both ends and knows how to win. Ideal 2 guard next to LaMelo. Maybe if Boston falls apart in the playoffs they explore moving him but he’d cost a ton I imagine.

Id trade any non #1 pick plus a few more and whatever players they want to get Brown between Melo and Mark.

[HornetJail]

If you want to make a splashy trade with the pick I would vote more Jaylen Brown if he is available.

Would love to find a way to get Brown. I know Tatum gets all of the attention in Boston but they aren’t nearly as good without Brown. He plays a smart, efficient game on both ends and knows how to win. Ideal 2 guard next to LaMelo. Maybe if Boston falls apart in the playoffs they explore moving him but he’d cost a ton I imagine.

Id trade any non #1 pick plus a few more and whatever players they want to get Brown between Melo and Mark.

as long as he's agreeing to extend on the spot. No way in hell I'm trading our pick for a one year rental

but yeah i'm all over the idea of trading the pick for anyone of his caliber.

[JMAC3]

I think PJ has negative value at $17M+ if he isn't a starter next year and if we draft a wing and bring back Miles (which seems like a lock) we are better off doing a S&T or trying to bring the rookie off the bench to start at least because you don't wanna lose PJ's buy in when he's been such a good soldier.

On a sep. note, am I crazy for wanting the Hornets to buy low on Jordan Poole? I think people are getting off of him too fast, he showed some truly special creation skills and its not that rare for a player to regress for a season after taking a leap the year before.

Hard no to Jordan Poole.

I hear you, but the price is too high for a buy-low. If he comes to our, not exactly stable, environment and stinks it up like this we've got one of the worst contract in the league with no way to move off of it. GSW would need to attach at least a 1st, two if they're protected, for me to seriously consider it.

Personally I think this is the real Jordan Poole. He's a guy who can go on a heater or make a series of mind-numbingly stupid decisions depending on the day. He's not suited to be a foundational piece and unfortunately with that contract that's what he has to be or it's a severe overpay. His minutes were declining round-by-round during the 2022 playoffs already because Kerr was losing confidence in him. The FO was basically forced to pay up or lose him for nothing so they bit the bullet. Since the Dubs are all sorts of rich I get taking that shot to extend the championship window but they lost that bet and we don't need to bail them out.

On the topic of Jaylen Brown if he weren't going to be an UFA in 2024 I'd offer our pick (assuming it's not 1st overall) plus PJ. As it is I doubt he'd re-sign if we have our typical 35-40ish win season next year so it's not very smart to offer a cost-controlled high lotto pick for a rental. He'd be the perfect backcourt mate for Melo though, and someone who could push our guys to give effort on defense. Cliff preaches it of course but it's always better when the players police themselves.

Warriors are going to lose this series because Kerr couldn't find a way to get Poole going. Everyone will point to him struggling, but some of that has to be on the coaches. You can't play a guy 10 mins and pull him because he was 0/4 especially when the Warriors can't score. They have back to back games of 98/101 ppg, that isn't winning in the playoffs. Steph shooting 30 times on a off night isn't winning games. Yet he played Klay 40 mins and he shot 3/11 while also not being able to create for anyone else.

Maybe Poole would of stunk it up, but the Warriors scored 2 points in the final 3 mins of last night. On pretty much all awful looks.

[Rich4114]

The best thing about these playoffs and results will. W that Kenny Atkinson likely won’t have a head coach offer again

[amcoolio]

Poole is pretty much where Rozier was in 2019. I think he's playing injured right now.

[LofJ]

Love him or hate him Chris Paul is the type of veteran we need on this team.

Read on Twitter

[yosemiteben]

I was actually wondering if it might be possible to pry off Marcus Smart from BOS. Seems unlikely, but not completely impossible if they supermax Brown and Tatum and want a better facilitator at PG. Probably not realistic, but that seemed like an intriguing partner for Melo.

[Hornet Mania]

The only salary we have on hand that would easily match CP3 is Gordo. That might be less of an upgrade than expected given Paul's decline this season but it wouldn't be the worst swing to take, assuming it's just a straight-up trade or Gordo+2nd(s). I don't see why Phoenix would do that though, unless they just want him gone at all costs. Sending out Terry, PJ, or Miles in some combo would be the only other way to get to $30m but that's a severe overpay for a guy who is close to retirement.

Marcus Smart would be better. I wonder if Boston would be interested in a reunion with Rozier or Gordo. I'm assuming they'd prefer Rozier but the expiring contract might be more enticing if it could help them avoid insane tax penalties over the next few years from the Tatum/Brown supermax deals.

[SWedd523]

If we're already lambasting a Melo/Terry defensive combo, I can only imagine a Melo/39 year old cooked CP3.

Gonna be 40 making $30mil too.

Massive, massive pass. Bring him in as a coach or something when he retires

[Bassman]

NO TO CP. Would have loved to have him come home to play for us years ago…no way now.

I seriously doubt there is any trade out there for our pricey surplus that helps us. Rozier needs to be swapped for a taller defensive specialist who can score a little bit.