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This is dumb. Mark needs to start every game from here on out. Cliff gonna Ciff.

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fatlever wrote:

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This is dumb. Mark needs to start every game from here on out. Cliff gonna Ciff.

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Seems like a move specifically to get Kai playing time.

fatlever wrote:

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This is dumb. Mark needs to start every game from here on out. Cliff gonna Ciff.

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I don't think its possible for me to dislike someone as a coach more than Clifford at this point...

Seriously, thats such complete nonsense. When Plumlee was here his standard minute split between Plumlee and Mark/Richards was 32/16. You can start Mark and play him 20 minutes and still play Richards/Kai 14 each and everyone basically is getting as much playing time as he was already giving the backup center for most of the season... Or you can do 24/12/12, or whatever. Plenty of rotation players in the league only get 12 minutes a night. There are so many options besides benching the franchises 2nd most important player every three games...

Hes is just a clown and somehow made it all the way to being an NBA head coach while having a tic-tac-toe level understanding of how to manage rotations.

Yeah I have these guys at least a tier each apart

Williams


Richards










Jones


So it should be Williams auto-starting and Richards and Jones rotating off the bench. Richards is already 25 turning 26 this year so if anyone's minutes should be donated to Kai it should be him. Williams is still a rookie and only 21 so he should be getting the lion's share of minutes on a nightly basis. Cliff's logic is pathetic.

Knowing our luck at least one of them will get injured anyway and there won't be a decision to make then lol.

Braggins wrote:Seriously, thats such complete nonsense. When Plumlee was here his standard minute split between Plumlee and Mark/Richards was 32/16. You can start Mark and play him 20 minutes and still play Richards/Kai 14 each and everyone basically is getting as much playing time as he was already giving the backup center for most of the season... Or you can do 24/12/12, or whatever. Plenty of rotation players in the league only get 12 minutes a night. There are so many options besides benching the franchises 2nd most important player every three games...

Hes is just a clown and somehow made it all the way to being an NBA head coach while having a tic-tac-toe level understanding of how to manage rotations.

FWIW, I cannot imagine that he is the one making these rotation decisions. I cannot ever recall a team that he has coached subbing guys in and out of the rotation like this, it's antithetical to one of his core principles of keeping playing groups consistent and predictable.

My bet is this is top down coming from Mitch.

yosemiteben wrote:

Spoiler:

Braggins wrote:Seriously, thats such complete nonsense. When Plumlee was here his standard minute split between Plumlee and Mark/Richards was 32/16. You can start Mark and play him 20 minutes and still play Richards/Kai 14 each and everyone basically is getting as much playing time as he was already giving the backup center for most of the season... Or you can do 24/12/12, or whatever. Plenty of rotation players in the league only get 12 minutes a night. There are so many options besides benching the franchises 2nd most important player every three games...

Hes is just a clown and somehow made it all the way to being an NBA head coach while having a tic-tac-toe level understanding of how to manage rotations.

FWIW, I cannot imagine that he is the one making these rotation decisions. I cannot ever recall a team that he has coached subbing guys in and out of the rotation like this, it's antithetical to one of his core principles of keeping playing groups consistent and predictable.

My bet is this is top down coming from Mitch.

No idea. I can't recall ever seeing a situation like this. Whoever is making the decision is really good at finding creative ways to annoy the fan base (or me at least).

yosemiteben wrote:

Braggins wrote:Seriously, thats such complete nonsense. When Plumlee was here his standard minute split between Plumlee and Mark/Richards was 32/16. You can start Mark and play him 20 minutes and still play Richards/Kai 14 each and everyone basically is getting as much playing time as he was already giving the backup center for most of the season... Or you can do 24/12/12, or whatever. Plenty of rotation players in the league only get 12 minutes a night. There are so many options besides benching the franchises 2nd most important player every three games...

Hes is just a clown and somehow made it all the way to being an NBA head coach while having a tic-tac-toe level understanding of how to manage rotations.

FWIW, I cannot imagine that he is the one making these rotation decisions. I cannot ever recall a team that he has coached subbing guys in and out of the rotation like this, it's antithetical to one of his core principles of keeping playing groups consistent and predictable.

My bet is this is top down coming from Mitch.

if its the front office telling the coach how to manage his rotations thats even worse!! surely not.

we know what we have with Richards and he's earnt his next contract as a result. let him take a break

top down from who? Mitch?

That doesn't seem like his MO at all.

I find it much more plausible that Cliff has stupid sub pattern ideas than One-Foot-Out-The-Door Mitch calling down and telling him to ration Mark's minutes

Maybe he got word from the front office that they would like for him to get minutes for Kai at center and this is just his idea for the best way to accomplish that because he insists on using basically the same exact two player center substitution pattern that he always does.

Still seems like it would be kind of a specific ask from the front office. Clifford had already been giving Kai more minutes at PF than C for a while. If the front office simply wanted more minutes from Kai then Clifford could give him more PF minutes rather than doing something this weird. I don't think the front office would be specifically telling Clifford to play a player at certain position in a situation like this. He probably just finally realized Kai wasn't a PF and still wanted to give him minutes, but he just can't be normal and slightly change his rotation style so we get this nonsense.

SWedd523 wrote:top down from who? Mitch?

That doesn't seem like his MO at all.

I find it much more plausible that Cliff has stupid sub pattern ideas than One-Foot-Out-The-Door Mitch calling down and telling him to ration Mark's minutes

I mean Mitch specifically referenced wanting the young guys to play.

I thought the popular schtick around here was Cliff stuck to a rotation no matter what. Is there a single example in like the 6 years here's been here that he has ever done a rotation like this?

Cliff is doing a 180 from how he has always managed his rotations specifically to play a young guy that otherwise wouldn't be in the rotation. That's...not how he normally does things.

Braggins wrote:I don't think the front office would be specifically telling Clifford to play a player at certain position in a situation like this.

Why not? I think that's definitely what they would do.

"Hey Cliff, we don't think PF is the future with Kai and we are thinking through roster changes this summer. Let's throw some C minutes at him and see how he does, just to give us some more data points."

Why wouldn't they do this?

yosemiteben wrote:

Braggins wrote:I don't think the front office would be specifically telling Clifford to play a player at certain position in a situation like this.

Why not? I think that's definitely what they would do.

"Hey Cliff, we don't think PF is the future with Kai and we are thinking through roster changes this summer. Let's throw some C minutes at him and see how he does, just to give us some more data points."

Why wouldn't they do this?

Seems like more micromanaging than I would expect to have the front office deciding what positions end of bench players should play.

yosemiteben wrote:Cliff is doing a 180 from how he has always managed his rotations specifically to play a young guy that otherwise wouldn't be in the rotation. That's...not how he normally does things.

Strictly in the sense that hes never had a three man center group where he had one player take turns sitting out every game, but otherwise hes actually doing this so that he doesn't have to change how he manages his in-game rotations. Hes making a player sit out so that he can keep using two centers and subbing them in and out at roughly the same time every game.

He was doing already doing the three man center group thing earlier in the season with Plumlee/Mark/Richards, so that is potentially some precedent for him doing this unless you also think he was doing that because the front office asked him to.

Braggins wrote:He was doing already doing the three man center group thing earlier in the season with Plumlee/Mark/Richards, so that is potentially some precedent for him doing this unless you also think he was doing that because the front office asked him to.

I actually do, and would point to his entire history as evidence. He has never split roles or alternated guys in and out of the rotation like he has this season, particularly where the entire goal is to play someone not currently in the rotation larger chunks of minutes.

I just don't think you can look at how the C minutes are being allocated this season and say "this is a good example of how Cliff does things."

yosemiteben wrote:

Braggins wrote:He was doing already doing the three man center group thing earlier in the season with Plumlee/Mark/Richards, so that is potentially some precedent for him doing this unless you also think he was doing that because the front office asked him to.

I actually do, and would point to his entire history as evidence. He has never split roles or alternated guys in and out of the rotation like this, particularly where the entire goal is to play someone not currently in the rotation larger chunks of minutes.

I just don't think you can look at how the C minutes are being allocated this season and say "this is a good example of how Cliff does things."

It could have been the front office in the earlier instance too. I honestly don't have a very strong opinion either way about who/where its coming from.

Hes definitely never done this specific weird thing before and I never would have expected him doing this (or any coach doing it), but him potentially doing something super weird in general wouldnt be unexpected for me. So yeah, I don't really know either way, but I dont put much past Clifford at this point (or the front office tbf).

I guess there isn't really much reason to figure it out. I'm hoping for new ownership asap and getting all these dudes outta here.

yosemiteben wrote:

Braggins wrote:He was doing already doing the three man center group thing earlier in the season with Plumlee/Mark/Richards, so that is potentially some precedent for him doing this unless you also think he was doing that because the front office asked him to.

I actually do, and would point to his entire history as evidence. He has never split roles or alternated guys in and out of the rotation like he has this season, particularly where the entire goal is to play someone not currently in the rotation larger chunks of minutes.

I just don't think you can look at how the C minutes are being allocated this season and say "this is a good example of how Cliff does things."

He rode Plumlee+Nick until one of them got injured for the first time, and then Mark performed in Nick's absence and left Clifford no choice but to see what we had in him.

That's kind of how Clifford has always done things. Rigid as hell, results be damned, until a trade or injury forces him to try something different.

This two games on, one game off, is just useless at this point. Nick's made his money, we know what he is- a halfway serviceable backup, likely a 3rd stringer on a playoff team. Hand those minutes to Mark and Kai and let them learn.

Loved that scene in Moneyball where Phillip Seymour Hoffman refused to play Chris Pratt at first base and so Brad Pitt just traded away the player in front of him. Hoffman had no choice.

Had to get the future hall of famer Plumlee out of there to play the new kid. This strange swap-out rotation thing Clifford's doing may be his up-yours response to Kupchak's move.

It happened in the movies. Why not in real life?