fringe roster guys

[fatlever]

keep or punt - Looking at the bottom half of the roster, which of the fringe guys would you want to see back on the roster next year. Give it a scale from 1 to 10. Being absolutely not under no circumstances and 10 absolutely yes. Ignore contracts for this discussion. None of these guys are making enough money that you couldn't eat if you had to or couldn't resign to a cheap deal if you wanted to.

moose - 9
curry - 6
nsj - 6
jefferies - 5
okogie - 8
baugh - 4
garrett - 3
simpson - 5
moore - 1

If we only had four of these guys at the end of the bench rather than 9 it would be a lot Easier to stomach. In a vacuum I don't mind any of the players being on the roster, other than moore. they all serve a different purpose. All of them seem capable of a role, but all of them also have pretty big flaws in their game preventing them from probably ever being more than what they are.

if i had to pick 4
moose
okogie
nsj
simpson

I give the nod to Nsj over Curry simply due to youth. I think Curry is the better player right now and it's great to have the hometown kid here and I'm sure he's a good locker room influence, but I would probably go with Nick if I had to choose between the two. But I certainly wouldn't be heartbroken if it was curry over Nick. I don't see the point in having both of them though. That being said if we somehow reach an agreement with mann This summer then I would probably be less inclined to pick nick over curry.

I'm taking a okogi over jefferies - He's just bigger and stronger and has more impact on the defensive end. That being said I don't mind Jeffries being on the roster at all. He's a no nonsense mini-miles

I'm taking Simpson over Garrett and baugh - As much as I appreciate watching the latter two play defense, Simpson gives you the 3 point shot while also giving you some toughness on the defensive end.

Moore is completely pointless.

[JDR720]

Moose - 8. Useful switchable defender and rebounder.
Jeffries - 6. Potentially useful 3/D player
Okogie - 6. Potentially useful defensive specialist.
Simpson 6. We just drafted him.

Nick 4. Eh, whatever.
Curry, 5 because he is Curry.

Everybody else, 1.

Looking at this list. It's pretty striking how much defensive talent, and lacking of offensive talent, these guys are. NSJ and Seth are the only maybe average offensive players of this bunch (besides KJ potentially).

[Hornet Mania]

I am definitely interested in keeping:

Moose- 9
NSJ- 8
Curry- 7
Simpson- 6

I think Moose and Nick will both likely grow into useful NBA rotation players. Curry already is that, a rarity on our team outside the starters. Simpson is more of a flier, but I like what they're doing in Greensboro and his growth into an intriguing sparkplug has been noticeable compared to the first month when he looked scared to death out there. I also just like his moxie, he seems to have a confidence about himself and doesn't get punked on defense despite his size.

Among the others I am interested in Okogie and Jeffries in that order if we need additional guys who profile as forwards, but I don't see either as ever being better than a 10th man. The difference between them and NSJ isn't talent, it's competition. At forward we have Miles, Miller, G Williams, Tiddy and Flagg ( ). At guard it's basically just Melo who is a surefire contributor.

[SWedd523]

The only guys currently on the roster than belong anywhere near a regular NBA rotation:

Melo, Miller, Miles, Mark, Grant, Mann, Nurk, Diabetes


Fringe guys that should only play spot minutes:

Okogie, NSJ, Green, Seth, Tiddy

Guys who don't really belong on a regular NBA roster:

Jeffries, Taj, KJ, Baugh, Moore, Garrett


This team is incredibly devoid of talent.


Compare it to a team like even Washington. Guys like Valanciunas, Smart, Richaun Holmes, Champagnie coming off the bench.


Hornets are so far away from fielding a respectable NBA team it's crazy. Having it's main players appear in 44, 35, and 27 games out of 68 so far doesn't help.


Charlotte has won 4(!!!!!) games by double digits all year long.

Lost 30(!!!!) of its 68 games by double digits.

30th in FG%
28th in 3P%
15th in FT%
29th in ORTG
23rd in DRTG
20th in Pace
27th in FTr
30th in EFG%
25th in TOV%

Only metric they're not terrible at is offensive rebounding, and I'd wager that's a byproduct of opportunity from missing so many shots.

that "long term vision" must've been an ayahuasca fever dream or something

[JMAC3]

We could keep none of these guys and probably wouldn't notice next year to be honest. All are super replaceable.

NSJ is worth keeping around, same with Moussa due to cheap contracts but this whole list of players is below average NBA players.

[HornetJail]

Moose - 7 (he's nice but do not let him stop you from getting an actual quality player at center this summer)

NSJ - 5 (he's done enough to get his 4th year option but I won't be sad if he's thrown into a trade as value)

Okogie - 4 (realistically trade bait but I liked what I saw in his brief minutes. I think you need maybe 2 guys with his archetype, you just can't have an entire roster of them, Jeff Peterson)

Baugh - 4 (he has a two-contract for next season already. like his defense and rim pressure. need to lock him in an open gym and have him shoot 2000 shots a day until September)

Jeffries - 3 (if Okogie is traded then he gets bumped up to a 4)

Simpson - 3 (can't say I see much of anything here tbh. he gets a slight benefit of a doubt since we used a draft pick on him)

Seth - 2 (simply because his family is Charlotte basketball royalty, fine as a 3rd stringer)

Moore - 0 (he's not it)

Garrett - 0 (he's not it)

Taj - 0 (stop wasting roster spots dammit)

Josh Green - well below 0 (yes I know he starts and is on a 2/29M contract, but he is a fringe roster caliber player who has done absolutely nothing here and we need to trade him to a team that can pretend he's a 3&D guy. I think Okogie and even Jeffries are comfortably better players)

--

I realize Kupchak didn't leave us much, but Peterson has done a horrendous job with our depth.

You could waive the entire roster aside from LaMelo, Mark, Miller, Bridges, and Diabate and then throw 10 darts at a dartboard full of minimum to room exception caliber free agents this summer, and accidentally build a better supporting cast than what we have right now. Our current 2nd string (minus Tre Mann and Grant Williams, who we really can't expect to be fully healthy next season either) is less talent than most serious teams' 3rd string, mainly offensively.

[Rich4114]

I like this thread, very good to have this discussion here now. Here's my $.02:

moose - 9 - Easily the best of the cheapest players. Have to understand what he is though, which is a utility PF/C who comes in for defense, energy, rebounding and occasional rim runs. Does not need big mins on a good team.

curry - 3 - Tricky one; but taking the emotional connection out of the equation it should be easy to move on. Plus, he might retire after this one no?

nsj - 6 - Only going into his 3rd year. Definitely flawed and one-dimensional but if you treat him as a streaky scorer off the bench and don't ask him to do things he's not good at then for what he costs it's worth keeping him and seeing if he can develop further.

jefferies - 0 - Jefferies is decent, but if he's playing mins in your rotation then it means you're bottom 5.

okogie - 8 - Absolutely want to keep Okogie. He's $8m next season if we keep him and he is what we were sold on Josh Green being.

baugh - 0 - No

garrett - 0 - No

simpson - 8 - Best of the fringe after Moussa, cheap 2nd round backup PG that could either be your 3rd PG or just the main backup.

moore - 0 - No

So I'm only keeping 4, but not hesitating to include any of them in any deals to get something done. I don't sweat missing anyone on this list if it came down to it though.

As for other players that are under contract, Nurk, Josh Green. Those are two sizable deals we need to find a way to move on from. Nurk will be a $19m expiring deal. Josh is one of the worst starters I've ever seen play basketball and the stats reflect that. Nurk from like 2022 would've been fine but that injury from a few years ago really took away any explosiveness he once had. He also takes 3's but never makes any and if we're gonna give a C the opportunity to brick 3's then it should be Mark.

As for the other main rotation guys (and Salaun) I think you include Mark, Salaun, Miles in any trade discussions if it means you can at least make a lateral talent move or combine guys + picks together to make an impact acquisition that makes a difference. Tre Mann can be included, but I put an * next to his name since his health and RFA status makes him incredibly unknown moving forward for us or any team.

[JMAC3]

I wouldn't be shocked if KJ Simpson isn't on the team next year. Dude is not good, definition of a JAG who you can find floating in the Gleague every single year. Already going to be 23 next year, so it is not even like he is some super young prospect with hypothetical upside. Was not a fan of the pick the second we made it.

I mean dude is in the Gleague. He is nowhere close to the 2way games limit, which is 50 games. Simpson has been in 23 games and we only have 13 games remaining. No reason Baugh, Flynn, Garrett should be playing over him if the front office believed in him at this point.

[GiggitySmalls]

Only moose, okogie, and nsj. Everyone else can gtfo and aren't real NBA level players.

Get rid of Josh Green. Dude is absolutely horrible. Especially for the amount of minutes he gets. Just an awful player.

Sent from my SM-S936U using RealGM mobile app

[JMAC3]

Again, I would probably be fine in all honesty if none of these guys were back next year.


Moose - he is already around and under contract, so don't see him going anywhere. I don't really think he is an every night player on a good team. I do like his unique defensive ability and think he can be useful in right matchups but I am lower on him than most around here.

Curry vs NSJ - I would rather keep NSJ, but if the team actually wants to try and compete next year Curry is a great 11th man who can fill in for 2-3 games at a time in a pinch, at most he should play 15-20 real games. If we are going to be terrible again then I would rather give the dev time to NSJ who is starting to show flashes

Jefferies vs Okogie - I would rather keep Jeffries at 2.5 million next year then pick up Okogie at 8 million +. I would offer Okogie Jefferies type of money and he balks then let him walk and just keep Daquan.

Baugh vs Garrett vs Simpson - Garrett isn't an NBA player. I don't really think either of them are, but I would probably give the edge to Baugh just because at his size I think I have seen an extra gear in him then Simpson. KJ is just soo small and I don't trust the shot and he is already 23 to start next year.

Moore- we could cut him tomorrow and in 15 days people would forget he was ever even on the team.

I would probably rank them in this order.
Moussa- NSJ- Curry- Jefferies- Okogie- Baugh- Simpson- Garrett- Moore

[Rich4114]

Again, I would probably be fine in all honesty if none of these guys were back next year.


Moose - he is already around and under contract, so don't see him going anywhere. I don't really think he is an every night player on a good team. I do like his unique defensive ability and think he can be useful in right matchups but I am lower on him than most around here.

Curry vs NSJ - I would rather keep NSJ, but if the team actually wants to try and compete next year Curry is a great 11th man who can fill in for 2-3 games at a time in a pinch, at most he should play 15-20 real games. If we are going to be terrible again then I would rather give the dev time to NSJ who is starting to show flashes

Jefferies vs Okogie - I would rather keep Jeffries at 2.5 million next year then pick up Okogie at 8 million +. I would offer Okogie Jefferies type of money and he balks then let him walk and just keep Daquan.

Baugh vs Garrett vs Simpson - Garrett isn't an NBA player. I don't really think either of them are, but I would probably give the edge to Baugh just because at his size I think I have seen an extra gear in him then Simpson. KJ is just soo small and I don't trust the shot and he is already 23 to start next year.

Moore- we could cut him tomorrow and in 15 days people would forget he was ever even on the team.

I would probably rank them in this order.
Moussa- NSJ- Curry- Jefferies- Okogie- Baugh- Simpson- Garrett- Moore

Surprised you're not higher on Okogie. His deal is $8m if we pick it up, not terrible at all. Almost half of what Josh Green costs but much better than Josh Green. Curry - he is a great spot up shooter to have but we don't have a roster that is going to get him consistent open shots and he's like 35 or something. Simpson, I like how he plays despite his lack of size and being 23. If his shot was better, it would make a big difference.

[Diop]

Tell moose to shoot a 1000 3's a day all offseason, let him know that if he gets a consistent 3 point shot he will get PAID.
PJ Tucker earnt $78 million, he could be a better version. hes the only one I want to definitely hang onto as he can be a great role player.

We drafted NSj, he's cheap and shown enough to keep around. If he's needed for a trade for something decent, I would include him.

Okogie looked the best of our hustle defensive guards.

I love Baughs fight but he needs a consistent shot. Would give him a similar speech that moose got, you want a contract shoot consistently. Simpson seems like a meh fringe NBA player. none excite me really.

If Seth wants to stay he can, he could play on any bench in the league. He's a pro who knows how to play and can always be relied upon to hit a shot. good vet

[MasterIchiro]

It's not this complicated.

Moose, NSJ, and Okogie should be the only returning players from this group.

One just got a new contract. One is being gifted starts and starter minutes. The latter was a very specific trade target for Nick Richards who was lined up for a definite roster spot for next season.

The obvious returning players could use some trimming as well - not to mention the coach - namely Josh Green, Salaün, and Nurk.

I hope the GM is not patting himself on the back just yet. I hope he's not at all satisfied with his key additions.

Simpson? Pfft. Shooting 33.2/22.8 but I guess he looks good to some people while doing it?

That is astonishing to me.

[Diop]

i dont think anyone is patting themselves on the back, year 1 was clearly tanking. its not an overly original start, lets see how they progress.

rotating fringe players through is how i like to tank, hope for found money, which moose might be and guys play harder when trying to secure a career.

[MasterIchiro]

i dont think anyone is patting themselves on the back, year 1 was clearly tanking. its not an overly original start, lets see how they progress.

rotating fringe players through is how i like to tank, hope for found money, which moose might be and guys play harder when trying to secure a career.

I understand it's a trial.

Just hope JP sees not a single key addition he made aced his audition, including his coach hire.

Will he drop Green? Salaün? Nurk? Lee?

All?

None of his key additions?

Anyways, Moose, Okogie and NSJ are returning.

The rest are not.

But we need to move beyond fringe roster decisions and strike the core additions - namely Green.

Josh has started more games than any Hornet this season.

I will be watching to see if he's cemented in the rotation.

[Diop]

I don't hate Nurk, he's still a solid NBA center.

[HornetJail]

only if your definition of solid is a state of matter that is neither a liquid or a gas

[JMAC3]

Surprised you're not higher on Okogie. His deal is $8m if we pick it up, not terrible at all. Almost half of what Josh Green costs but much better than Josh Green. Curry - he is a great spot up shooter to have but we don't have a roster that is going to get him consistent open shots and he's like 35 or something. Simpson, I like how he plays despite his lack of size and being 23. If his shot was better, it would make a big difference.

Okogie played 7 games for us, I know people are ready to sign off on him as some great missing piece but he shot 39% from three in that sample size which is way above his career average. He is a career 30% three point shooter on very low volume, I do not trust the shot at all. He is not worth 8 million, Phoenix only gave him that deal to purely use him in a trade matching salaries, it is why he was barely playing for Suns, they never had intention of him being part of the team longterm- also why this upcoming year is completely unguaranteed.

I can see it now, we are going to pick up his 8 million option, his shooting will regress and he will be someone that kills the offense when he plays. Which is why I would rather just roll with DaQuan at 2.7 million who I think is a better shooter and give us the same big wing type of player for 1/3 of the cost for the next 2+ yrs.

[JMAC3]

Charlotte Hornets Top 15 guys next season

1. LaMelo (starter)
2. Miller (starter)
3. Miles (starter)
4. Top 5 pick (Flagg, Harper, etc) (starter)
5. Mark (starter)
6. Josh Green (Main Rotation)
7. Jusuf Nurkic (Main Rotation)
8. Tre Mann/ Nick Smith Jr. (Main Rotation)
9. Tidjane Salaun (Main Rotation)
10. FREE AGENT WING
11. Moussa Diabate
12. Grant Williams (injured to start yr)
13. Jeffries or Okogie
14. NSJ or Curry
15. Veteran Leader

Two Ways
1. Baugh or Simpson or Wendell
2. Pick 33
3. Pick 34

So unless we either don't resign Mann or we trade Nurkic, there is a good chance none of these fringe roster guys are in our top 10 players when healthy.

[HornetJail]

If Green, Nurk, and Salaun are in the main rotation, we'll be right back here again next March because it means one of more of them is starting for at least a chunk of the season.