The Fast Tempo Thread

[fluffernutter]

First half vs. Nets.

We were clearly running a high-tempo game.

We got a rebound, and everyone immediately sprinted the other way. The defense was not quite set by the time we started out offense, and this seemed to allow more open jumpers, better drives, etc.

It was obviously a coaching decision; it seemed very different than the "walk up the floor with McMinus dribbling" version we had seen before.

The result at the half was a 10 point lead.

We even did some full-court press.

So, why not keep it up?

It works, it's not boring, it seems to be having nice results...

Nothing else has worked this season. Why not run?

So we wear out the big guys. So what? Substitute in the scrubs, what, it's worse than losing?

[EasternMagic]

ot: from a magic fan to all bobcats... please beat the celtics on the ninth, please. you almost did it the first time seek revenge and destroy

[Walt Cronkite]

Tank mode

[W_HAMILTON]

It's fun to watch this team get dominated by teams we played pretty well last season.

We probably do need to tank, to right the wrongs of poor drafting in recent years.

On the bright side, if we were to tank, this would certainly be the year, because unlike other years, this team literally seems incapable of pulling off those "surprise" wins that screwed up our draft position. This team really seems hopeless right now.

Any why is an Orlando fan asking us to beat Boston? Shouldn't you be asking us to beat Washington, or freaking Atlanta?

Ugh, looking at the SE standings, what a perfect season to try out a new coach and gamble with two poor PGs (note the sarcasm) .... Atlanta is 3 games back in the loss column of the division lead. Would have been a perfect season to actually make a legitimate run at the division title, and look what's happened. Shameful.

[BigSlam]

The wider issue is the Bobcats' general propensity to lose the ball. Vincent thought he'd addressed that early in the season, in part by slowing the tempo. Now they're trying to run more.

"We went through a stretch when we were slowing things down," Vincent said. "When we pick our pace up, it leads to turnovers. We want to take advantage of our speed, but sometimes we lose the ball."

http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/435259.html

This is a good point and one I hadn't really thought about - but it's true.

[DaBassSource]

The wider issue is the Bobcats' general propensity to lose the ball. Vincent thought he'd addressed that early in the season, in part by slowing the tempo. Now they're trying to run more.

"We went through a stretch when we were slowing things down," Vincent said. "When we pick our pace up, it leads to turnovers. We want to take advantage of our speed, but sometimes we lose the ball."

http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/435259.html

This is a good point and one I hadn't really thought about - but it's true.

Last night I heard him say this in the post game show...I need to read the art....
But I thought most of the TOs last night came in the half court set...not at a faster pace....

[fluffernutter]

The wider issue is the Bobcats' general propensity to lose the ball. Vincent thought he'd addressed that early in the season, in part by slowing the tempo. Now they're trying to run more.

"We went through a stretch when we were slowing things down," Vincent said. "When we pick our pace up, it leads to turnovers. We want to take advantage of our speed, but sometimes we lose the ball."

http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/435259.html

This is a good point and one I hadn't really thought about - but it's true.

That's not really a good point, as it stands.

To actually say something smart about turnovers, you would have to see how often we commit them in a half-court set vs. running game, and even if we do commit more in the running game - do we force more as well? And score more?

Meaning, if we actually score more than the opponent when running, even if we turn it over more, who cares?

[DaBassSource]

-= original quote snipped =-



That's not really a good point, as it stands.

To actually say something smart about turnovers, you would have to see how often we commit them in a half-court set vs. running game, and even if we do commit more in the running game - do we force more as well? And score more?

Meaning, if we actually score more than the opponent when running, even if we turn it over more, who cares?

Exactly......!!!!!

and if I remember a lot of the 4th quarter TOs were in the ISO to GW late in the shot clock...

[BigSlam]

I think more the point is that if we are not making the right pass in an uptempo offense or dribbling our way into trouble then the ball ends up back down the other end quicker than it comes down to our end and the opposing team scores and all we are is gassed from the contacnt up and down with no reward.

Felts is guilty of not making the right pass and not making it quickly enough, Crash the most guilty though and it would seem the rest of the team (maybe not JRich?) doesn't have the smarts to make it happen on a regular basis.

Which is why we only play a total on average of about 10 mins of quality ball a game.

[fluffernutter]

I think more the point is that if we are not making the right pass in an uptempo offense or dribbling our way into trouble then the ball ends up back down the other end quicker than it comes down to our end and the opposing team scores and all we are is gassed from the contacnt up and down with no reward.

Felts is guilty of not making the right pass and not making it quickly enough, Crash the most guilty though and it would seem the rest of the team (maybe not JRich?) doesn't have the smarts to make it happen on a regular basis.

Which is why we only play a total on average of about 10 mins of quality ball a game.

The first half of the Nets game was the fastest pace we have played all year, from what I can tell.

And we ended 10 up.

Just saying.

[Paydro70]

I've been calling for this all year. Our talent, particularly Felton but also JRich and Crash, is ideally suited to running a high-paced offense. If the problem really is Felton, for instance, why not put him in an environment where his greatest strength (speed) is maximized? Fast breaks are our best chance, we have no half-court offense.

On a side note, the idea that we will turn the ball over more in a fast-paced offense is a very, very sad indictment of Sam Vincent. The very fastest teams tend to keep their turnovers low: last year the top 5 pace teams ranked 12, 23 (Nuggets), 4, 5, 2, the year before it was 2, 14, 6 (Bobcats), 7, 19 (Bulls). The reason high-paced teams tend not to be turnover prone is obvious: they don't hold the ball as long, and so have fewer chances to turn it over. If you just shoot quickly, you aren't passing it around or dribbling constantly and risking a bad pass or a mis-handle. There's no question in my mind that a running offense would at least keep Gerald Wallace from turning it over 8 times like he just did.

[BigSlam]

I've been calling for this all year. Our talent, particularly Felton but also JRich and Crash, is ideally suited to running a high-paced offense. If the problem really is Felton, for instance, why not put him in an environment where his greatest strength (speed) is maximized? Fast breaks are our best chance, we have no half-court offense.

On a side note, the idea that we will turn the ball over more in a fast-paced offense is a very, very sad indictment of Sam Vincent. The very fastest teams tend to keep their turnovers low: last year the top 5 pace teams ranked 12, 23 (Nuggets), 4, 5, 2, the year before it was 2, 14, 6 (Bobcats), 7, 19 (Bulls). The reason high-paced teams tend not to be turnover prone is obvious: they don't hold the ball as long, and so have fewer chances to turn it over. If you just shoot quickly, you aren't passing it around or dribbling constantly and risking a bad pass or a mis-handle. There's no question in my mind that a running offense would at least keep Gerald Wallace from turning it over 8 times like he just did.

Don't get me wrong - I want to see us play up tempo, but we need to know our limitations. The Suns can do it because most of the guy's (if not all of them) on the floor for them can handle the rock and have good hands. Same can be said for the Raps (I like the way the Raps play a lot).

It's easy to say that speed is Felts best weapon - and it's true - he's very fast. But what use is that if he can't remain under control? The difference between someone like Nash, Paul, Wade, Parker etc and Felts is that they can play with speed...............but still play with poise. When Felts hits top gear he is all over the place and more often than not, out of control. What's the use of having the speed if you don't know how to use it?

IMO the idea that we turn the ball over more in a fast-paced offense is a very, very sad indictment of the team more so than V. We run the break well some of the time, but too often you'll see an alley oop pass sail over the top of the back board on the full or someone dribble the ball off their foot or straight into a defender or we wont make the go ahead pass and instead try and go coast to coast even with 2 open guy's ahead.

Sure we are built for speed, but do we have the smarts for speed?

In order to truly run the break and play uptempo, you need at least 3 guys on the court (4 is better) who can lead the break and execute it quickly. Look at the Suns, the Raps, the Bulls and Team USA at Vegas.

We have one and a half guy's can do it..........and even then it's with mixed results.

[Paydro70]

We're the third worst team in the NBA in turning the ball over... isn't it worth the chance that we cut them down by going from the 16th pace to, say, the 6th?

It's true that the Suns have Nash, and the Warriors have Baron Davis, but the Nuggets were running last year with Steve Blake, the Kings with Mike Bibby, and the Wizards with Antonio Daniels or Arenas.

I don't know how well Raymond will do... it's true that he sometimes gets out of control when he's running flat-out. On the other hand, what's to lose at this point? Our offense is bad, doing what we're doing now (which is mostly milling around, as far as I can tell), so why not do something that at least in theory our players are well suited to do?

I'm not sure it's true that we require 3-4 guys to "lead the break." I assume by that you mean handle the ball up the court and finish/set up in transition. Who do the Raps have after their PGs? Anthony Parker? Bargnani? Moon? Kapono? I don't see any great handles on that team beyond the PGs. The Suns have Barbosa and I guess Bell? Only the Warriors, in my opinion, have that collection of versatile players that I think you are talking about, so I don't know what our problem would be with having Ray take off and toss passes to JRich or Wallace. It's better than standing around at the 3pt line because none of our players are great in the half-court.

[BigSlam]

It's not just about being able to handle the ball, it's also about being able to make the right decision, quickly and execute it. Our ball movement sucks and has always sucked. You can blame that on a few different things but at the end of the day, it comes down to the same thing. Our lack of ball IQ.

Two guy's that we have had that were high IQ players IMO were Fabio and DA. You could see how much our ball movement improved when they were on the court because they are smart players. They were able to spread the floor, create space and get the ball to players in the hole. Fabio would make Crash look good time and time again with his weakside baseline cuts for easy reverse lay ups. JRich is doing it a little now too.

Look at the Raps. Jose is a smart player. Parker is a smart player. Bosh is a smart player. Bargs is a smart player. Garbo is a smart player.

Up tempo isn't just about getting up and down. If that's all you want fill your team with Travis Outlaw and Maggette types. Up tempo though is also ball movement, getting into the right place quickly and at the right time and making the extra pass.

While the Suns are fun when they are on the break, it's Nash taking it into the key and then back out without picking up his dribble drawing two defenders with him creating an overlap open man and with two quick passes around the outside the ball ends up in the open man's hands for the easy, uncontested J. The ball may have gone through 4 guy's hands in about 3 secs but because they are all smart and have the hands, the play is executed quickly (see: up tempo).

I'm not sure we have the guy's to do that.

Does that make sense?

[fluffernutter]

Very good post.

That makes sense.

But we still ended the half up 10 points.

Maybe we are not as bad with a fast pace as you think?

[DaBassSource]

I'm not sure that it is "smart"...what I'm sure about is that it is a "system" and they practice it over and over again...I agree that pushing the pace does not mean just fast breaking... but that is a part of it... the Suns put the defenders back on their heals...even on made shots...Not that the Suns offense is the model (what have they won) but it is very fun to watch and will keep you in a lot of games...and you are right about the pg keeping his dribble while entering into and out of the paint..unlike most, this has been my one big problem with Felt. If he just kept his dribble in the lane without the added crossovers he would be able to react to the help defense that comes his way and find the open man...again this can all be done at a quicker pace...