Wanted: One Lock down wing defender

[BigSlam]

Just expanding on what Spectre had brought up in the other thread, we really do lack a quality on ball defender. Our help D is pretty soild, but we need a "Kobe killer" type. Bernard Robinson was good at it (but horrible at everything else) and DA has been good for us at it but is over the hill.

Guys that spring to mind for me are:

Corey Brewer
Ronnie Brewer
Mardy Collins
DJ Strawberry

Ideally the guy could handle and distribute the rock as well as lock down the opposing players best wing player when we go small.

So what would it take to get them? I think that Ammo is still our best trading chip.

Ammo and Harrington for Corey Brewer and Madsen?
They add a more mature guy in Ammo to a young team and get out of the couple of years left on Madsen's deal.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

How about Ammo and a 2nd for Ronnie Brewer and Hart?
They add some outside shooting and someone who can create his own shot to team with DWil and AK47

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

Nazzy for Mardy Collins, Jerome James and a 2nd?
They get out of the James contract and get an active big to play with Curry or with ZBo off the bench?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

Davidson for Strawberry and a 2nd
Davidson would give the Suns some big man depth and in that running enviroment he would get looks and be able to knock down his 18ft J.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=


What are your thoughts guy's?

[Walt Cronkite]

I don't think any of those teams accept our offer

[chrbal]

Ruben Patterson? Not that great, but he is unemployed and seems to have matured.

DJ seems more hype then anything.

Don't want any part of Jerome James.

I don't think Utah or Minnesota would listen to any offer where Morrison was the prime player they were getting.

[BigSlam]

I don't think any of those teams accept our offer

What would need to be added or taken away in your mind Walt to make the offers more attractive to the other teams?

Who else could we target?

I'm trying to think of a wing who can move the ball, has a pretty good IQ, has size and can defend. The guy's doesn't need to score at all (we have Crash and JSwish for that) but if he could stick the 3pt shot that would just be a bonus (think Bruce Bowen)

[jeremy1215]

The Bobcats should try to pluck Hassell from Dallas.

[fatlever]

maybe we should have used our free roster spot on bobby jones when he was cut a few weeks ago. dude was a stud defender at washington.

[CarolinaCash]

Nazzy for Jereome James and Mardy Collins? Hell no I wouldn't do that as a bobcat fan.......James and his contract sucks.

[chabber]

We had Keith Bogans who was pretty decent and let him go for nothing. He was pissed for good reason that he wasn't playing over Princess.

He and Carroll actually complimented one another pretty well if Bernie would have played them both more.

[Paydro70]

Slam... well for one, why would we expect to get a second AND something for a second round pick in Dudley? Ammo is worth a late first at best, so how does that and a second equal a veteran PG and a lottery pick in Ronnie B?

The deal for Collins/James/2nd is just completely unappealling, I don't see why we would want to get those pieces for a guy that has played so well for us.

I like the Corey Brewer deal the best, I think that's actually a deal that the TWolves MIGHT consider, if they like Ammo and they really want out of Madsen's contract. I don't think they'd do it, but maybe if we threw on a 2nd?

[BigSlam]

Slam... well for one, why would we expect to get a second AND something for a second round pick in Dudley? Ammo is worth a late first at best, so how does that and a second equal a veteran PG and a lottery pick in Ronnie B?

I'm not sure I understand this question Paydro? I didn't include Dude in any of my offers, and even if I did, he was taken #22 making him a 1st round pick and not a 2nd as I think you suggest above?

[Bowens]

What I feel this team needs more than anything is a big tall tough power forward who can rotate quick enough and get in front of the opposing team. Adding a defensive 2 or 3 puts Crash at the PF spot where I don't think he would be as effective whenever we make the playoffs. Crash out on the wing is good at forcing his man to go baseline, but our bigs have been slow to get in position and disrupt the pass or shot.

We also need Raymond to apply more on ball pressure and slow the opposing point guard down. Ray's inconsistency has really hurt us. But he needs to play 36 minutes a night at the pg spot so we can see if he's the man for the future.

Don't really see anything out on the market that could help us immediately on defense, other than someone like Ron Artest. So we might as well just play out this season because we're not making the playoffs with our schedule, then over the summer tinker with this team. Many more options then.

[Walt Cronkite]

Artest would be SICK! Felton/Jrich/Wallace/Artest/Okafor

[Paydro70]

I meant to say Davidson instead of Dudley, my mistake. And he was a second rounder who has done little that you are essentially saying is worth two second-rounders.

[BigSlam]

Got 'cha Paydro - now I understand.

The reason I thought the Sus would have to add the 2nd was because while Davidson and Strawberry were both 2nd round picks, one was the taken with the 36th pick and the other the 60th.

There is a great difference there and more of a chance of Daivdson going well in the Suns system than DJ would in ours.

[BigSlam]

What I feel this team needs more than anything is a big tall tough power forward who can rotate quick enough and get in front of the opposing team. Adding a defensive 2 or 3 puts Crash at the PF spot where I don't think he would be as effective whenever we make the playoffs. Crash out on the wing is good at forcing his man to go baseline, but our bigs have been slow to get in position and disrupt the pass or shot.

Oh, I agree Bowens. I much prefer a traditional line up with Crash at the 3, and two bigs at the 4/5.

This is more for the sake of argument than anything - but in saying that, we do go small a lot and if we are going that route, I'd rather a Brewer/ Brewer/Strawberry/Collins/DA type on the court than McMinus.

[Paydro70]

Also... a big tall tough PF? Isn't that basically what Emeka/Nazr are? It seems to me what we need is a fast PF who can guard someone like David West or Antawn Jamison, especially if he can hit midrange jump shots and make free throws. Maybe an Udonis Haslem type.

If we trade Emeka of course anything is possible, but if we keep him, once again we either need to accept that he's our center, or make him a PF and get a legit 7' C.

[Walt Cronkite]

-= original quote snipped =-

What would need to be added or taken away in your mind Walt to make the offers more attractive to the other teams?

Who else could we target?

I'm trying to think of a wing who can move the ball, has a pretty good IQ, has size and can defend. The guy's doesn't need to score at all (we have Crash and JSwish for that) but if he could stick the 3pt shot that would just be a bonus (think Bruce Bowen)

Minnesota would like to get rid of Madsen because he's not in their long term plans so he takes up a roster spot unnecessarily, but his contract isn't terrible and by the time he's off the books they'll want the cap space to resign some of those youngsters. Brewer for Morrison they'd consider, but I don't think Morrison fits into their plans the way the think Brewer does. We'd at least have to include a 2nd, but even then I don't think anyone is trading for Morrison until they see how he plays after surgery.

Ronnie Brewer outplayed Morrison as a rookie and has been even better this year. He has more potential and is a far better defender (obvious since we're trying to get a lock down defender, still). Further, I think the Jazz (or at least Sloan) would prefer we take Price instead of Hart, b/c they play Hart a whole lot more and he's expiring. Still, I feel like Utah would demand a 1st round pick.

I know Isiah's crazy, but I feel like even he would play Mardy Collins more if he felt like he was capable of being a stopper. Not to mention that trading Nazr would be a total panic move on our part. I'm pretty sure we'd lose talent wise and financially in this trade.

Davidson and a 2nd for Strawberry might be enough, definitely the most fair deal, I still feel that Phoenix would just as much prefer we take Diaw off of their hands since they hate the luxury tax but don't want to move Marion/Stoudamire.

I'll add some other candidates, but I think we're just as well off signing a defensive stopper out of the dleague.

[Bowens]

-= original quote snipped =-



Oh, I agree Bowens. I much prefer a traditional line up with Crash at the 3, and two bigs at the 4/5.

This is more for the sake of argument than anything - but in saying that, we do go small a lot and if we are going that route, I'd rather a Brewer/ Brewer/Strawberry/Collins/DA type on the court than McMinus.

I hear ya, it's just that anything on the perimeter right now is just a temporary stop gap. Dudley is actually a decent defensive player.

[Bowens]

Also... a big tall tough PF? Isn't that basically what Emeka/Nazr are? It seems to me what we need is a fast PF who can guard someone like David West or Antawn Jamison, especially if he can hit midrange jump shots and make free throws. Maybe an Udonis Haslem type.

If we trade Emeka of course anything is possible, but if we keep him, once again we either need to accept that he's our center, or make him a PF and get a legit 7' C.

What I said was, we need a big tough pf who can rotate QUICK ENOUGH to get into position and challenge the opposing team. Emeka is slow as sh*t when it comes to rotating.

[Walt Cronkite]

Okay, here are the guys who we could put together a realistic package for.

Bulls: Viktor Khryapa (1 year 1.9m) or Thabo Sefolosha (2 yrs 1.8m)

I don't know why the Bulls would want to trade us either of Sefolosha or Khryapa, but maybe we somehow become a third party at the deadline and this is the prize. I wouldn't want to trade a 1st for either of these players. Since Khryapa is in the final year of his deal maybe something like Othella and a 2nd would be enough to get a deal done?

GSW: Mickael Pietrus (1 year 3.4m) or Matt Barnes (1 year 3m)

Neither of these guys has played as well as last season and they're both playing for their qualifying offer. I think GS would prefer to keep them and resign whichever they liked more, but maybe we could get one of them for a similar dead as Khryapa. Barnes is a better defender against 3s and in the Warriors system he plays a lot against 4s, where as Pietrus is a better defender against 2s than 3s.

Pacers: Stephen Graham (1 year 0.77m) or Andre Owens (1 year 0.68m)

Don't really see the Pacers wanting to trade either of these players, but it's a low risk for us and they both could end up being pretty good stoppers.

Denver: Yakhouba Diawara (1 year 0.68m)

Pretty much the only defensive stopper on the Nuggets, so I doubt they're willing to deal him.

Milwaukee: Desmond Mason (2 years 5m)

Milwaukee is spinning it's tires but not going much of anywhere and has a glut at the forward position. Othella, May and a 2nd?

New Orleans: Rasual Butler (3 years 3.3m )

Hornets wouldn't want to shake up their chemistry and I don't think we're good trading partners, but they'd probably do Nazr for Butler and a 2. Lateral move at best.

Toronto: Joey Graham (2 years 1.59m)

Jamario Moon has made this Graham as expendable as his brother. Not sure what Raps would want from him though, as they certainly aren't in a position where they HAVE to trade him. Also, he's probably the worst player on this list as far as injuries go.

So, there we go. I really think we've got just as much of a chance of finding a keeper in the dleague as we do at landing one of these guys in a trade, but I was saying that about our bigs situation earlier and we got Nazr, so who knows.