Who do we want to start?

SamBone · Post #1 » by **SamBone** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 7:02 am

I know that I am the biggest Hammer supporter on this board (sorry Slam) but do we need him as a starter now the McMinus is gone and Crash is out? I want Hammer to get major minutes and truely believe that his slump was because his minutes were down and that he is much better playing with our starter then our backups. But wouldn't it make alot more sence to start Duds so we can see if he is ligit? I think we know that Hammer is a solid supporting player off the bench (when paired with the correct lineup and given minutes), but as much as this should be sink or swim with Ray as a PG only, shouldn't we get a major look at Duds (as well as JD)

GoBobcats · Post #2 » by **GoBobcats** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 12:08 pm

Felton 35 to 40 mpg
JRich 30 to 40 mpg
Dudley min 30 mpg
E50 and Nazr together minimum 30 mpg
Davidson should get 20 mpg

SamBone · Post #3 » by **SamBone** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 2:05 pm

GoBobcats wrote:Felton 35 to 40 mpg
JRich 30 to 40 mpg
Dudley min 30 mpg
E50 and Nazr together minimum 30 mpg
Davidson should get 20 mpg

I said I wanted Hammer coming off the bench, not not playing

Post #4 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 5:10 pm

I agree Sam. And hey, there is enough Hammer love to go around. We can share!!

I think for the make up of the team and the lack of rebounding, the best line up would be:

Felts
Swish
Dude
EO50
Nazzy

with Hammer getting significant mins at the 2 and 3 with DA off the bench.

GoBobcats · Post #5 » by **GoBobcats** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 5:17 pm

SamBone wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I said I wanted Hammer coming off the bench, not not playing

Of course Hammer should get Minutes.
We all know what he ca do.
I just think its important to give some minuts to Davidson and Dudley, and i also want to see how E50 and nazr are doing together.

Rich4114 · Post #6 » by **Rich4114** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 5:35 pm

Davidson is surprisingly talented offensively. If he could get better defensively and rebound better, we'll have ourselves a quality PF. He should definitely get lots of mins from here on out.

As for Hammer, there's pro's and con's to starting him at SG and moving J-Rich to SF. Defensively we suffer but we get better at shooting. Since we're so bad defensively and can't rebound, I would lean towards having Hammer backup J-Rich and use Dudely at SF.

DaBassSource · Post #7 » by **DaBassSource** » Sun Mar 2, 2008 6:23 pm

I would rather see Hammer start... I think it gets us into a better offensive flow and should keep the floor spaced better...but I would like to see Duds get 30 mins mixed in there...

BeesWax · Post #8 » by **BeesWax** » Mon Mar 3, 2008 12:50 am

I think Davidson needs more time. He may be able to be the athletic 4 playing next to EO. I am not a dude fan. I think he is very limited and should at best be a ninth or tenth man in the future, but agree he should play now since we should tank and see what we have in the young guys.

Post #9 » by **BigSlam** » Mon Mar 3, 2008 1:16 am

jdm3 wrote:I think Davidson needs more time. He may be able to be the athletic 4 playing next to EO. I am not a dude fan. I think he is very limited and should at best be a ninth or tenth man in the future, but agree he should play now since we should tank and see what we have in the young guys.

Wow!! What's not to love? He's Paul Pierce meets Shane Battier (poor mans versions of both)

BeesWax · Post #10 » by **BeesWax** » Mon Mar 3, 2008 1:39 am

It is easy he has no real redeeming qualities. He is and was in college a very streaky shooter. Lacks consistency. Limited athletically. Probably a quick as a 4 in a 3s body. I like him the 4th guy off the bench but if you need him to make your team go you might as well have Mark Madsen. Come to think of it he is a small watered down version of Madsen

Rich4114 · Post #11 » by **Rich4114** » Mon Mar 3, 2008 1:43 am

Dudely showed tonight why we picked him. We've been letting this waste on the bench all year.

He's the one guy on this team constantly playing hard and coming up with all of the lose balls. Tonight it looked like his energy spread to the other guys as well. Every good team needs a guy like this, I hope we keep him long term and make him a 6th or 7th man off the bench once we're 100% healthy next year.

Post #12 » by **BigSlam** » Mon Mar 3, 2008 2:08 am

You picked a bad night to call him out jdm3!!

17 and 10 (including 6 offensive boards) with a steal!

I know he's not a glitz and glamour type of player, but comparing him to a Madsen type is selling him well short.

W_HAMILTON · Post #13 » by **W_HAMILTON** » Mon Mar 3, 2008 2:14 am

It should be Felton/Carroll/Richardson/Dudley/Okafor.

Mohammed ain't exactly in our future plans, so if we're going with this whole "play guys in their right position and see how they perform," Okafor should be allowed to play center as well.

When you play both of them for extended minutes, you're basically forcing one to play out of position and losing what they contribute most to the team, if one is forced to guard quicker PFs out along the perimeter. Okafor should be allowed to start at center, and Mohammed should be relegated to the bench, getting backup center minutes as well as a small handful of minutes playing alongside Okafor.

Post #14 » by **Paydro70** » Mon Mar 3, 2008 8:24 am

The Madsen comparison is ludicrous... Dudley is already playing at a higher level than Madsen achieved at any time in his career. Dudley could well become starter-caliber, but failing that, I think he's looking VERY good to be a 6th-7th man.

doc.end · Post #15 » by **doc.end** » Mon Mar 3, 2008 12:18 pm

The thing he could be next Bruce Bowen for Spurs (if we didn't take him) is agood refetrence itself.

SamBone · Post #16 » by **SamBone** » Mon Mar 3, 2008 2:13 pm

W_HAMILTON wrote:It should be Felton/Carroll/Richardson/Dudley/Okafor.

This i our most productive lineup. I think Sam realized last night that EO and Naz together is not gonna work unless we have someone to sub in. Twiggy gives nothing (nice dunk last night)

BeesWax · Post #17 » by **BeesWax** » Mon Mar 3, 2008 3:22 pm

If Dudley is our 6th man we will never make the playoffs. You don't like the Madsen comparison. I was proud of that. It is a guy who can be made to look bad by someone with just average athletic ability for the NBA. Also Dudley is nothing like Bowen. One he does not seem to be a dirty a player as Bowen and two he is not of the same quickness he can't stay in front of anyone on D.

Post #18 » by **Paydro70** » Mon Mar 3, 2008 6:02 pm

Dudley is not the defender Bowen is. On the other hand, he actually contributes something outside of man-to-man defense, which is Bowen's only skill (oh, and wide-open corner 3's).

Madsen has played at or below replacement level his entire career. He had one season above 10 PER, and he only got to 12. Dudley is currently at 15.

I don't understand the logic at all. They don't play the same position, their bodies aren't similar, Dudley is already miles ahead of even Madsen's best offensive season, and he's already equalled Madsen's best rebounding season. Dudley has already shown himself to be dramatically more valuable than Madsen was even at his peak (year 2 of his career).

As for the 6th man claim, you'll have to also argue that if he goes from 15 minutes to 25 minutes per game, he'll plunge in efficiency. Right now, a 15 PER player is better than the 6th man for every playoff team in the East other than the Raptors (because of TJ Ford/Calderon). He's FIFTH among rookies in PER, despite a quite low usage rate.

If he can keep up his level of play for more minutes (which we'll get to see this season), he's most certainly 6th-man capable.

BeesWax · Post #19 » by **BeesWax** » Mon Mar 3, 2008 6:13 pm

I love this PER mess. It is so overrated, it is a half @ssed attempt to apply math to make things make sense. Also the math is so bad it is crazy that anyone actually listens to it. The only reason Dudley has numbers this year is because the team is so bad. If he was on a playoff team he would not sniff the court. He has ok production for his pay but is not a 6th man, not even close.

amcoolio · Post #20 » by **amcoolio** » Mon Mar 3, 2008 6:30 pm

You can't be a fan of the Bobcats and hate Dudley.

Dudley does all the things we wished all Bobcats players would. He boxes out, fights for rebounds, isn't afraid to challenge shots, takes smart shots, is willing to take the hard foul or get boned setting a pick against Shaq or Dwight, and looks to get all teammates involved.

His so called lack of athleticism is about as blown up as Okafor's back problems. You can't say he doesn't have any athleticism, because if you think Madsen was ever good enough to get 10 rebounds, nevertheless in his rookie season, then you shouldn't be evaluating talent.

Dudley has more athleticism than half the league. Besides Moon, who has more athleticism on the Raptors than Dudley last night?