Why does every one wants to trade Gerald?

[Pass_The_Sticks]

If we re-sign Okafor and get a center that can score, I believe we can be in the playoff hunt.

[W_HAMILTON]

Almost any reply I can think of would either get my post moved to a sticky thread or censored, so I will refrain from saying much of anything.

But I am equally puzzled by the people that want to ship Wallace out.

Maybe it goes back a few years ago, when some people wanted to let him walk if he wouldn't accept 4m/year, or when some people wanted to trade him for Radmanovic. I think some people have preconceived attitudes towards some of our players, and when they are playing out of their minds, they shut up, and when they take a step back and don't play as well as we have come to expect, they let those feelings surface, and start mentioning silly trades that harken back to previous times when they underestimated those same players.

[BigSlam]

I don't think that everyone wants to trade Gerald, it's more that if a deal came along that made us a better team, most people would be ok with that.

But that's not exclusive to Crash, that goes for everyone.

The fact that Crash has a very fair contract, has youth and lots of ability makes him an attractive trading chip.

[W_HAMILTON]

The fact that Crash has a very fair contract, has youth and lots of ability makes him an attractive trading chip.

And it should also make him an attractive piece of our team that we would want to retain.

[BigSlam]

The fact that Crash has a very fair contract, has youth and lots of ability makes him an attractive trading chip.

And it should also make him an attractive piece of our team that we would want to retain.

100% agree....................unless a deal comes along that makes us, as a team, better.

[W_HAMILTON]

Unless it's a deal where it CLEARLY makes us better, a type of deal which most teams probably would not even offer, I would not trade him. Like I said, some people to very much take a "what have you done for me lately" attitude when it comes to some of our players. They think Wallace can't mesh with this team, or think he's too much of a greedy player, or whatever other crap they spout off now, which would be unthinkable to say one or two seasons ago.

[BigSlam]

His BBIQ and history of injruies have always been in question.

Today is no different to last year, the year before or the year before that.

He provides some outstanding things, but he also has limitations.

[W_HAMILTON]

And those limitations did not cause anyone to criticize him before the Richardson trade, or say anything other than, "wow, gee guys, we have one of the better wing duo's in the league, we're gonna be great! So, in my mind, yes, his somewhat disappointing season this year is the reason why people want to ship him off. I believe this season was an aberration for him like it was quite a few of our other players that seemed to take a step back, so rather than rushing to get rid of him, I'd rather realize it was probably a fluke, and he will bounce back next year.

[BigSlam]

A few things:

- Yes, we do have one of the better wing duo's in the league. For the next three years if nothing changed and Swish and Crash were still on our wings we would still have one of the better wing duo's in the league. BUT, if we had the chance to upgrade that wing duo by adding an amazing SG with the SG skills that we need and it was at the cost of Crash and it made us the best wing combo in the league, shouldn't we do it?

- I really, really, really don't think he had a dissapointing season - until he was shut down after the Moore hit, but if we were in the playoff race you know they would have played him. They were just being cautious. Even then, the Moore hit was no fault of his.

- People don't want to ship him off. People are just saying that if we had the chance to improve our team at the cost of trading Crash, then we would be willing to do that.

- I have no doubt he will bounce back next year and be just as good, if not better, than before. That doesn't change the fact that if we could get better by moving him, I would do it.

- Question for you: Who do you think is a better basketball player. Swish or Crash?

[W_HAMILTON]

Who's better doesn't matter to me, since I don't see them as overlapping talents. It's like saying, choose one, Okafor or Richardson. There's no reason to choose one when they aren't duplicating one another.

And as for people not wanting to ship him off, I sure see a lot of trades involving his name that are at best lateral moves, and in some cases, moves that would probably make us worse off. The only one trade I recall right off hand that I could understand would be Boozer. A lot of these other trades would not necessarily make us clearly better, it's just people reaching for trades because they believe their guy with limitations and questions would be better than Wallace with his limitations and questions.

[BigSlam]

It's not the same because Crash and EO50 dont play the same position. Crash and Swish do - meaning that if we moved Crash for a suitable SG, we could easily move Swish to the SF and not skip a beat.

That in itself makes them an overlapping talent. I'm not saying that can't co-exist together. They obvioulsy can because they did quite well last season. But with the right SG, we would be a better team.

The Boozer trade idea made perfect sense. Don't forget: we'd be getting the "basketball God" back in the deal as well!!

[W_HAMILTON]

AND NEITHER DO WALLACE OR RICHARDSON.

WHICH IS WHY NOT ONE PERSON COMPLAINED ABOUT THE TWO OVERLAPPING AFTER WE TRADED FOR RICHARDSON.

And we certainly could skip a beat. Richardson is not the defender that Wallace is, Richardson is not the playmaker that Wallace is, and Richardson is not the penetrator that Wallace is. I'd rather take my chances with Richardson getting torched by the occassional speedy SG than I would with Richardson getting torched by the taller SFs. Richardson is shorter than Wallace, and hasn't shown that he can get up like Wallace to challenge shots coming from those types of players.

It's pretty damn stupid to make a bunch of lateral trades (or worse), thinking you are solving all these problems, and not realizing you are only creating other problems.

[fluffernutter]

Wallace's history of concussions simply scares me. He's one more concussion away from missing most of another season, and possibly ending his career. Concussion effects build up in a strange way. 1 or 2 doesn't do much, but 3 or 4 can have long term effects, and makes each subsequent concussion that much worse (and harder to recover from).

I'm thinking about the odds that Wallace is going to be "mostly healthy" for the next 5 years. I'm not that hopeful. 50%? 75%? 25%? I could see trading Wallace to another team and them getting no more than one good year out of him...frankly, that's what is driving my thinking. If Wallace had no serious injury concerns, I'd never consider trading him, particularly given his contract. But he has serious injury concerns.

[_tijo_]

To be honest, the concussion thing is one thing. It is concerning, especially in a town that went through Dan Morgan. It was extremely scary to see him on the floor unconscious.

But I don't understand the duplication of talent argument. Gerald doesn't shoot three's. J Rich can't defend or rebound like Crash. They are completely different players, but both do their job well.

I think honestly, people are bored and trying to invent ways to get a big here. I don't believe people want to trade Crash. He's not going anywhere.

[Paydro70]

To be honest, the concussion thing is one thing. It is concerning, especially in a town that went through Dan Morgan. It was extremely scary to see him on the floor unconscious.

But I don't understand the duplication of talent argument. Gerald doesn't shoot three's. J Rich can't defend or rebound like Crash. They are completely different players, but both do their job well.

I think honestly, people are bored and trying to invent ways to get a big here. I don't believe people want to trade Crash. He's not going anywhere.

Oh but he does... to the tune of 3.6 per game, equivalent to actual shooters like Vince Carter or Anthony Parker. Granted, JRich shots the most in the NBA, but it's not like Wallace isn't jacking them up too. The two players were also quite close in rebounding (9% for Wallace, 8% for JRich), and I'm not so sure either one is a very good man defender, and they're actually not that far apart in blocks either. They also pass a similar amount.

Anyway, the two can coexist, but trading one of them isn't a terrible idea if we could get a more suitable player. Considering one player has had multiple concussions and the other hasn't, and one is coming off a down year and the other one isn't, Wallace would be the one I'd be more inclined to move if we could get a player better suited to the rest of the team's talents. Boozer, to use the most obvious example, would complement Emeka considerably better than Wallace complements JRich.

I would be a little surprised if we actually did find a good deal for Wallace, but I don't think he's untouchable, and is in my opinion considerably better trade bait than JRich or Okafor.

[misterglover]

Hamilton you sure are defending Gerald awfully hard....I like the guy too but I honestly think he maybe our most overrated player in terms of how some of the people on this board view him....the same way you feel as if alot of people want to get rid of him there are those of us who think the way some people say no to every trade idea that involves him is crazy as well.....I love his hustle and energy but him jumper is suspect at best and honestly for as much as I love to watch him, I think he is an overrated defender(he is a gambler, great help side defender...he is not a lock down 1-on-1 guy) and on a true contender should be no more than a great role player and I think thats all he will ever be(ex.Tayshaun Prince). No one is ever gonna agree on sports thats just the way it is....yesterday I posted an idea me and my friends(who all have season tickets to the Bobcats & attend basically every game) had about getting Jamison(or any proven starting PF) here at the expense of Gerald and you, Sticks and Slam hated it...and had very good arguments as to why you hated it, you thought it made us worse & thats your view, from where me & my friends stand it made us better because we felt it gave this team what it needed a low post rebounder & scorer and you dont get something for nothing(unless your the Lakers). I would have no problem with keeping Gerald for the duration of his career if we can add the pieces to this team without having to sacrifice him but if we cant then someone has to go because this team as presently built is not a playoff team and by process of elimination you dont get rid of a young defensive big like Okafor unless you get one in return, JRich is that offensive punch i think everyone can agree this team has never had since its birth so that leaves Gerald as our best asset aside from the draft pick which BTW I also want us to trade for a big...then maybe we dont have to trade Gerald....

[W_HAMILTON]

He has his problems, but guess what? So do a lot of those players that everyone wants to trade him for. They're over half a decade older. Or they suck defensively. Or they also have "suspect" jumpers. Or their current team wants to get rid of them because they disappear too often. Or they haven't even played a game in the NBA.

As for Richardson and Wallace duplicating talent, or being "similar" in what they do, I also disagree.

Richardson is such a great rebounder, because he has great size for an SG. It keeps him from getting bullied around on the block by also bigger SGs, but it hampers him if he's going against a super-speedy SG. You move him full-time to SF, and he's playing against players that are just as big as him, if not bigger, so he loses that advantage. Also, I don't know him getting burned by speedy players changes, if he guards speedy, but bigger players at SF, either; 20ft from the basket, do you think he could keep Lebron in front of him?

Also, Richardson had a similar assist rate, but there's a difference in getting assists because you pass, and getting assists because you create. Richardson didn't show much ability to create for others, but he showed he could make good, smart passes. Wallace creates for others. He may turn the ball over, because it's not something he has been accustomed doing, but outside of our PGs, no one on the team can create for others the way Wallace can.

As for defensively, Wallace is a better defender, period. He may be more of a disruptive defender than a lockdown defender, but that doesn't mean he's not a better defender. And he's shown he can guard a variety of players, from SGs to PFs (hell, to even some centers). Richardson has not shown that he can do that for any extended period of time. And the 6'8" SF types (of which there are a ton), could back him down and shoot over him all day long. Richardson isn't much shorter than Wallace, but he doesn't have the same defensive "up's" that Wallace has; I can't think of Richardson going toe-to-toe with someone taller and stuffing them very much, but Wallace has mix tape after mix tape of that happening.

Up until that point of the season, January was one of our best months, with some quality wins against some very good opponents, and that month, Richardson and Wallace both played extremely well, and showed they could easily co-exist:

Wallace: 24pts / 8rbs / 5 asts / 2 stls / 1 blk
Richardson: 23pts / 6 rbs / 4 asts / 1 stl / 1 blk

And we followed up one of our best months with one of our worst months, in February, a month in which Wallace mostly missed.

It would be unfortunate if we trade away one of our best players after this past season, believing that he was the problem, and not some other people that were clearly the problem. I sure hope the Front Office doesn't think like some of you.

[Paydro70]

Wallace isn't necessarily "the problem," but he didn't have a great season and there's a substantial risk that he's going to be forced to retire or at least miss a lot of games in the years to come. I don't really WANT to trade him, the way one might WANT to trade a team cancer, or a bad fit, or a bad contract, etc., but I'm willing to take a fairly lateral move if it comes with a bonus (like a pick or a young prospect).

As for Richardson at SF, he there more than 2/3 of his minutes this season, and actually rebounded better than Wallace did when Wallace was at SF. Some of that can be explained by the fact that Wallace was playing with a bigger lineup when he was at SF (only happened with Okafor+Nazr/Hollins/Brezec), but since the gap is in Richardson's favor, I would suspect that they're not too far apart at all in their boarding ability. JRich also blocked almost exactly the same number of shots as Wallace did when both were at SF (.9 to 1.0 per 48). Richardson does still have crazy ups, and he's fast off the ground; this is probably the aspect of his game I am least concerned about as regards playing SF.

He's also very thick, so I don't think he'd be nearly as vulnerable to bigger SFs as you think. LeBron James can blow by him, sure, but that's an extreme example. Most SFs are slower than most SGs, so I think if anything JRich's ability to keep his defender in front of him would improve playing (or perhaps I should say continuing to play) SF. I'd be more inclined to agree that bigger SFs might shoot over him, but 2" isn't a big deal, it'd be guys like Odom or Lewis (6'10") that would really be a problem, and there aren't too many of those guys. For most players he's only giving up an inch or two, which isn't really enough to just get shot over.

I agree strongly with your first paragraph; this trade should not be done just to do it, Wallace is a very effective and versatile player who has a lot of experience with the team, plus a great contract. Jamison, for instance, would be a terrible trade, because he's not good at all on defense and is legitimately near retirement, not just a little older.

I think the ideal complement to JRich would be a lockdown man defender (so we can put him on the best opposing swingman) who has a very good midrange game and a good handle, all things that both JRich and Crash lack. Perhaps someone like Josh Howard or Caron Butler? Prince is one that keeps coming up, but I think he's far too similar to Crash for it to make any sense except from a health standpoint.

[fluffernutter]

It would be unfortunate if we trade away one of our best players after this past season, believing that he was the problem, and not some other people that were clearly the problem. I sure hope the Front Office doesn't think like some of you.

I don't want to trade Wallace because I think he's not one of our better players. The reason I wouldn't mind trading Wallace (for good value) because his medical issues scare the crap out of me.

To ignore the medical issue when talking about Wallace is to completely miss the point. They ARE the point.

If Wallace had played 82 games last year, nobody - nobody - would be interested in trading him. But he didn't. He got another concussion.

[Walt Cronkite]

I nuked my post by clicking back to this tab but instead hitting a bookmark, but I'm kinda glad because Hamilton makes some great points. I'm also gchatting with Paydro, so it's a good brainstorming session. Here's my take:

I think Wallace and Rich is a great wing combo. Neither is a lock-down defender, but as Ham mentions, Wallace is by far a better defender even if it's only because he's so disruptive. I would personally like to see Larry Brown's affect on Gerald, because I think he would nip the ill-advised 3s immediately and if anyone could get Gerald to concentrate and become a lockdown defender, I think it'd be him. Increasing his BBIQ is something he has to do as he approaches his 30s anyway as his athleticism declines (but to be fair, he doesn't turn 26 until a month after the draft, so he certainly has time).

My major concern is a selfish one. It was awesome to watch when Gerald flew around the court and dove for loose balls with no regard for the safety of himself or anyone else. When he was picking up minor, non-reoccurring ones--sprains, breaks, dislocations, whatever--it was something that you could deal with. It was to be expected because it was an inevitable result to his style of play.

The concussions have changed everything. When Gerald took the hard fall on opening day from Danny Granger 2 seasons ago, we collectively held our breaths because no Wallace meant the season was over. It's A LOT different now. Now when Gerald is down on the floor, his career is in jeopardy. It's possible that Wallace's magic mouthguard protects him from future concussions, but as a fan watching the games, it's really stressful wondering if this hit was the last one he'll take.

I have more points on the matter, but that's enough for now.