Was the #9 pick of DJ Augustin a deal that went bad?

[DaBassSource]

Don't know if this has been talked about somewhere else... but I found it interesting...

http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/6/28/56 ... pritchslap

http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/6/28/56 ... tchslap-pa


I hope MJ didn't get **** on in a deal/no-deal with the Blazers...

[Walt Cronkite]

I don't find this very likely. I read all day that Brown wanted Augustin, Jordan wanted Westbrook. Maybe this was intentionally leaked as a cover up for when we took DJ at 9, but I think that's illogical.

I mean, you read the article, right? Bobcats needed a 4 or a pg, but this guy claims Lopez, Rush and Randolph were "arguably better fits" than DJ? Unlikely.

This is what I think. Bobcats acquire the 20 looking to do one of two things, 1)package the picks with whatever to move up and select Love or Westbrook or 2) use the 9 on the guard we most like that's around and in a draft with a lot of bigs in the 2nd half of the 1st round take the big guy we covet.

[DaBassSource]

I don't find this very likely. I read all day that Brown wanted Augustin, Jordan wanted Westbrook. Maybe this was intentionally leaked as a cover up for when we took DJ at 9, but I think that's illogical.

I mean, you read the article, right? Bobcats needed a 4 or a pg, but this guy claims Lopez, Rush and Randolph were "arguably better fits" than DJ? Unlikely.

This is what I think. Bobcats acquire the 20 looking to do one of two things, 1)package the picks with whatever to move up and select Love or Westbrook or 2) use the 9 on the guard we most like that's around and in a draft with a lot of bigs in the 2nd half of the 1st round take the big guy we covet.

I could also see them making this mistake... and trying to do some deal to get Jack as a backup PG and still have two more 1st round picks...

[moocow007]

The Bobcats and head coach Larry Brown taking Alexis Ajinca, an extremely raw young player, was almost as big a head scratcher as them taking Augustin with the first 1st round pick. Larry Brown is notoriously known for being someone that does not like to play raw young players. I wouldn't discredit the possibilty that a trade (or trades) were worked on and that either or both were to be used as peices. Still might.

[DaBassSource]

Larry Brown is notoriously known for being someone that does not like to play raw young players.

This and the fact that he is known to be hard on PGs made me wonder when I read this...Because if Ray was to be replaced, as some has said, then that would not be a place LB would want the team...So I guess I have to believe that DJ, who I thought they did not even workout...was his man for a BACKUP pg....

[e4Nf6]

Wow....exhibbit 1a for the case that blogs are journalistically irresponsible......

Seems a bit irresponsible to me to accuse Kevin Pritchard of what amounts to fraud, (making a legally binding verbal contract intending all the while to back out) with 0 evidence.

This is the kind of thing that would cost draft picks if it came out.......I could see the NBA giving Portland the Joe Smith/Minnesota Treatment AND forcing the trade through.

Also...I'm not sure if this kind of thing is even possible....We'd have to ask someone more in the know, but I imagine that in the cases where Team A picks a player for Team B, both parties call the league to confirm the deal first.

[Walt Cronkite]

This notoriety stems from his unwillingness to play Darko. Here are the general minutes that he gave to rookies on his team for the past 2 decades.

Lee, Frye, Robinson, each over 1000 minutes
Salmons got 500 minutes behind Iverson, Snow, McKie and Buckner.
Claxton 1500
McCulloch got 500 minutes behind Ratliff, Hill and Geiger
Hughes nearly 1000 minutes
Tim Thomas 1700+
Dampier 1000
Best 500 minutes behind Jackson and Workman

So he didn't play rookies in LA, but it's an assortment of "Where are you now?"'s (Elmore Spencer, Randy Woods, Terry Dehere--I've heard of Dehere because he was in the name that 90s player thread). Otherwise, the only rookies he didn't play that were any good (very loose interpretation) are Darko and Delfino. Seriously, that's it. Oh, and a really young, raw Sam Dalembert.

I guess you can make a counterpoint that these omitted guys didn't make it because Brown didn't play them as rookies, but I think that's a pretty weak one. I think the evidence shows that Brown plays guys that make the team better.

DJ will play for sure, somewhere between 1000 and 1500 minutes (12-18 mpg). I think we'll probably pick up an NBA ready forward, but if not Ajinca will play too.

Brown/Jordan/Higgins have said that they strongly considered Lopez at 9, but knew there would be a lot bigs that they liked at 20. They also knew that there wouldn't be very many quality pgs available at 20. When forced to pick between DJ and Bayless they mentioned that Bayless is currently a combo guard which replicates what Felton does, where as DJ will be able to step in and make offense easier for Morrison, Carroll and someone else, Richardson maybe, don't remember.

I understand passing on Koufos and Arthur in light of what's been reported about their situations and I understand the dislike of Ajinca by some, but who would you have rather drafted at 20? Dj White? DeAndre Jordan? I could see someone maybe complaining that we should've taken White there, but disliking Ajinca while liking Jordan would be hypocritical.

Lopez and Chalmers? That doesn't really excite me as much as DJ/Ajinca. Did you here Lopez wired up?

[Walt Cronkite]

Also...I'm not sure if this kind of thing is even possible....We'd have to ask someone more in the know, but I imagine that in the cases where Team A picks a player for Team B, both parties call the league to confirm the deal first.

Great point. Consider the Brandon Wright/Jrich swap last season. Apparently it was supposed to be Yi for Richardson but Milwaukee screwed GSW by taking Yi the pick ahead of us, but while the deal couldn't be announced until Davidson was drafted, it had been finalized, or else why wouldn't have GSW backed out of the trade?

[W_HAMILTON]

No, but after all the bad choices this team has made, I can see why you would be skeptical of them actually making the right move for once.

[DaBassSource]

This notoriety stems from his unwillingness to play Darko. Here are the general minutes that he gave to rookies on his team for the past 2 decades.

Lee, Frye, Robinson, each over 1000 minutes
Salmons got 500 minutes behind Iverson, Snow, McKie and Buckner.
Claxton 1500
McCulloch got 500 minutes behind Ratliff, Hill and Geiger
Hughes nearly 1000 minutes
Tim Thomas 1700+
Dampier 1000
Best 500 minutes behind Jackson and Workman

So he didn't play rookies in LA, but it's an assortment of "Where are you now?"'s (Elmore Spencer, Randy Woods, Terry Dehere--I've heard of Dehere because he was in the name that 90s player thread). Otherwise, the only rookies he didn't play that were any good (very loose interpretation) are Darko and Delfino. Seriously, that's it. Oh, and a really young, raw Sam Dalembert.

I guess you can make a counterpoint that these omitted guys didn't make it because Brown didn't play them as rookies, but I think that's a pretty weak one. I think the evidence shows that Brown plays guys that make the team better.

DJ will play for sure, somewhere between 1000 and 1500 minutes (12-18 mpg). I think we'll probably pick up an NBA ready forward, but if not Ajinca will play too.

Brown/Jordan/Higgins have said that they strongly considered Lopez at 9, but knew there would be a lot bigs that they liked at 20. They also knew that there wouldn't be very many quality pgs available at 20. When forced to pick between DJ and Bayless they mentioned that Bayless is currently a combo guard which replicates what Felton does, where as DJ will be able to step in and make offense easier for Morrison, Carroll and someone else, Richardson maybe, don't remember.

I understand passing on Koufos and Arthur in light of what's been reported about their situations and I understand the dislike of Ajinca by some, but who would you have rather drafted at 20? Dj White? DeAndre Jordan? I could see someone maybe complaining that we should've taken White there, but disliking Ajinca while liking Jordan would be hypocritical.

Lopez and Chalmers? That doesn't really excite me as much as DJ/Ajinca. Did you here Lopez wired up?

Don't get me wrong, I've actually warmed to our draft picks...And I really want to see what we can get out of Ajinca. He might turn out to be what we have needed (with experience and a few more pounds) . His over all skill set seems to be much superior to Jordan's. I simply hope MJ and LB stuck to their board and picked who they thought made the team better...

[fatlever]

my god what a piece of garbage. i am really starting to dislike 99% of blazer fans.

maybe, just maybe, charlotte wanted augustine over bayless and could give two **** about what the pacers, nets kings and blazers did in the next 4 picks.

maybe just maybe, KP, being the smart gm that he is knew that after the bucks took alexander at 8, augustine, bayless and lopez were still left on the board. he wanted a pg and would gladly take either bayless or augustine. knowing the nets would not take a pg since they just traded for devin harris and needed a center, KP did some 1st grade math and figured out that if he could get to 11 he would most likely get either augustine or bayless. so he calls LB...larry bird (not larry brown) and makes a deal. there was no need for him to panic and make a deal with the bobcats, especially, knowing larry brown and his preference for pass first pgs. of course he also could have read anyone of a dozen papers last week and known that LB was very high on augustine as well.

come on people. sometimes the most logical explanation is the right one.

[pondin]

jeeezzz .... guys its just rumors!!! nothing more ...

The idea of trading Felton or DJ is downright stupid at this point. It was possible had the the Toronto deal went down and we got TJ Ford. But when that deal was shut down, there is just no way we would draft a big man with our 9th pick.
You guys should take a look at the video (2.30 mins in):

http://www.nba.com/bobcats/2008_draft_w ... _day7.html

Larry Brown: "All these kids coming into the NBA in this stage in their careers are looking at being backups, unless they go to a terrible team. It’s generally understood that the first or second player in the Draft might start. They don’t want to stay as backups."

There's nothing wrong with drafting a solid back-up (who has starter qualities). Looking at Boykins last year was terrible! Look at Toronto last year with TJ and Calderon. You have to admit looking at Toronto's roster, they are not that good. Outside of Bosh, they are nothing more than ordinary and yet they continue to be successful.
Having 2 good point guards can never go wrong! Its just unfortunate they couldn't work together.

Plus some of our mock draft in this forum is on the money! some selected Bayless over DJ, but thats just preference. There are more good quality big man in the 20's than PGs. Thats the logic of going into this draft selecting PG first.

[amcoolio]

Charlotte wanted either Westbrook or Augustin. They had a deal in place with Seattle, but backed out because Seattle wanted too much. Jordan wanted Westbrook. LB wanted Augustin.

We ended up with Augustin.

There was no way Charlotte was going to select Bayless or Lopez. Okafor is a center. He sucks at Power Forward. Lopez can't play PF. So why take Lopez to be the third center behind Nazr?

Bayless is not a PG, hes a combo guard who can handle the ball. Charlotte doesn't need one of those, they have one (Felton). Charlotte has been searching everyhwere for a true, pass-first PG since Knight left, and they went out and got one.

There is a lot of bias against MJ because of the decisions he has made in Washington. The only bad decision he has made in Charlotte was hiring Sam Vincent, but I believe he wanted LB last year but LB said no. Now he has a great coach. The J-Rich trade was brilliant.

Blazer fans think they could have had a deal with Charlotte because they think they wanted Jarrett Jack. That is not the case. Jack paired with Felton is not a good PG combo at all. Both had limited court vision, take too many shots, and can't finish. Jack would quit the NBA if he had to play for LB.

Again I think a lot of this "What is Charlotte doing?" is accredited to the media and their total lack of a clue to what the Charlotte Bobcats are. They think Okafor can play PF, when thats like asking Ben Wallace in his prime to play PF. They think Felton is an up and coming PG, when in reality he has probably peaked and is an average PG at best in a PG's league. They have no clue who is Ajinca is or why LB would pick him. So if fans of other teams try to pass off blogs as smart information, you should probably stop following the media to get your Bobcats information.

[pondin]

Well said amcoolio, couldn't agree with you more ...
Okafor at PF is a joke, especially now with more perimeter PFs who can shoot it from the 3pt line.

I am still a bit hopeful Felton can do better under LB, but he needs to learn how to make those open J's. He has shown some minor improvements (TO, FG and FT has gotten better last season), now he needs to make a full stride.

[Walt Cronkite]

I was really bothered by Chad Ford's comments for the past month when he claimed Charlotte as looking for a center to put beside Okafor so he could play his natural position of PF. I like Ford, so I'm hoping this was some misinformation leaked by the cats to have other teams behind us not try and move up and take the guys we'd rather select from.

[freakon0mics]

I'm still skeptical about the Ajinca drafting but drafting Augustin was a nice selection. I don't see why they are knocking that one. Augustin has the ability to become a bona fide all-star in the NBA. I just think with his skill set and leadership, he can help lead this team to the playoffs. If anything else, Felton looks like he is nothing more than backup material. I just don't think he is cut out to be the starting point guard for any team in the NBA. I

[spectre_]

Charlotte wanted either Westbrook or Augustin. They had a deal in place with Seattle, but backed out because Seattle wanted too much. Jordan wanted Westbrook. LB wanted Augustin.

We ended up with Augustin.

There was no way Charlotte was going to select Bayless or Lopez. Okafor is a center. He sucks at Power Forward. Lopez can't play PF. So why take Lopez to be the third center behind Nazr?

Bayless is not a PG, hes a combo guard who can handle the ball. Charlotte doesn't need one of those, they have one (Felton). Charlotte has been searching everyhwere for a true, pass-first PG since Knight left, and they went out and got one.

Just out of curiosity, why would Jordan want Westbrook if we turned down Bayless becasue he's a "combo that can handle the ball"?

Who knows if this is true. I can see DJ preferring Portland due to there not being any competition for "future" (maybe that's why he looked so down on draft night). We might possibly have pulled Frye and Jack out of the deal as well as the 13th, which would have went a long way in helping out our 4/5 position. Add to that LB seeming to prefer vets (not saying he doesn't play rooks...agreed with Walt's post above) and it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Doesn't matter now anyway as I think DJ fills a need and will fit in fine with us. Yet to see what happens with Ajinca; hopefully he'll come in and be more ready than a lot think.

I asked this in the draft thread, but is MJ/LB that transparent leading up to the draft? Is this a good think if so? I thought MJ was a gambler...if this is how he gambles then I'm surprised he hasn't went thru all that NIKE money no matter how much it is.

[floppymoose]

Great point. Consider the Brandon Wright/Jrich swap last season. Apparently it was supposed to be Yi for Richardson but Milwaukee screwed GSW by taking Yi the pick ahead of us, but while the deal couldn't be announced until Davidson was drafted, it had been finalized, or else why wouldn't have GSW backed out of the trade?

That was not the case. Mullin wanted Wright. The whole organization has been consistent that the trade was what they wanted. The only two points of debate were:
1) Were they willing and hoping to turn around and ship Wright out in a KG trade? (imo, yes)
2) Was Wright a Mullin pick or a Nelson pick?

Point two was settled just this week when Nellie let it slip that Wright was a Mullin pick. Randolph, btw is a Nellie pick. Although Mullin seems totally on board with it, but it's Nellie who started the fire.

So you can say that maybe it was a KG trade that went bad. But I feel confident that they drafted Wright knowing that they might keep him.

[Rich4114]

I just don't think he is cut out to be the starting point guard for any team in the NBA. I

You really feel that way? I'm pretty sure there's a boat load of GM's out there that would strongly disagree with you, including our own.

[W_HAMILTON]

Just out of curiosity, why would Jordan want Westbrook if we turned down Bayless becasue he's a "combo that can handle the ball"?

Because Westbrook can be an elite perimeter defender in this league. It's obvious we wanted someone that could possibly play PG and defend both guard positions, which is why we took Weaver in the 2nd round.

Bayless and Felton would basically be duplicates. The organization wanted to add something we didn't have, and they did that (a pass-first PG, and a potential lockdown perimeter defender that can play both guard positions).