Not looking like we'll get Kaman

ohara · Post #1 » by **ohara** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:21 pm

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... get_kaman/

Crap. This stinks. We just seem to be stuck. Not sure what to think about things right now. We cant get a break in the Lottery, we cant pull the trigger on any big deals (but for J-Rich), and we just keep losing. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

countryboi · Post #2 » by **countryboi** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:36 pm

if it makes you feel any better Rick Bonnell said that from the observer...and he has been wrong many times before...he said we couldnt get j-rich...i think we should just play wait and see with this kaman thing

WaydownSouth · Post #3 » by **WaydownSouth** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:47 pm

I agree... Lets just sit on this one for awhile... I still think something can be worked out.

Bassman · Post #4 » by **Bassman** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Yes, I think there will be better deals for Kaman that would suit the Clips needs. I think Wallace would be a strong player for them in their mix, but they can get more from the Bulls or others.

At this point our best options may be with New Jersey (for Sean Williams) OR, perhaps a deal with the Knicks for David Lee. Lee has been sliding in their new system, and with Harrington he will clearly be out of their key mix. Difficult to find the right mix of players that work with a David Lee trade.

Until anything gets done (if it can) we should continue to start Jinx at C and try Okafor at the 4. This is what Brown wants, but I still just don't see Emeka as a 4 in this league.

chrbal · Post #5 » by **chrbal** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:33 pm

Being reported by Rick, this pretty much means he'll be a Bobcat by the trade deadline.

Post #6 » by **BigSlam** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:47 pm

I don't think the Clipps have any need for Crash while they have Thornton.

realfung · Post #7 » by **realfung** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:00 pm

No, you guys are not.

I say next year you guys will be a win now year.
Like the Clippers.

Post #8 » by **Diop** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:59 am

The only player that the Clippers want from the Bobcats is J.Rich.

Kaman isn't worth trading Richardson away.

coordinator0 · Post #9 » by **coordinator0** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:10 am

Sachmo wrote:The only player that the Clippers want from the Bobcats is J.Rich.

Kaman isn't worth trading Richardson away.

If we could somehow get Eric Gordon back in return, which i highly doubt, I would do it in a heartbeat.

nugentrk · Post #10 » by **nugentrk** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:27 am

Sachmo wrote:The only player that the Clippers want from the Bobcats is J.Rich.

Kaman isn't worth trading Richardson away.

But is Kaman worth a 1st round pick?

Cats get Kaman
Clips get Matt Carroll, (Nazr or Adam Morrison) and lottery protected 1st round pick from cats

ohara · Post #11 » by **ohara** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:24 am

nugentrk wrote:
Sachmo wrote:The only player that the Clippers want from the Bobcats is J.Rich.

Kaman isn't worth trading Richardson away.

But is Kaman worth a 1st round pick?

Cats get Kaman
Clips get Matt Carroll, (Nazr or Adam Morrison) and lottery protected 1st round pick from cats

Our Lottery Protected 1st is going to Denver from the Ajinca pick last draft. dont have one to deal.

scratch21 · Post #12 » by **scratch21** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:27 pm

matt carroll?? nooo
we would only want JRICH if we were to move Kaman

PETEY PABLO · Post #13 » by **PETEY PABLO** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:50 pm

Kaman is a perrenial 15pts 10rbs guy , a potential 20 and 10 . He has a sweet 15 foot jumper, can score with either hand and is a mobile 7 footer. He has had 20 20 games many times and will also give you 2 blocks oer night.

Since LA just got Randolph , The Clippers might be more open to Trading him.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #14 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:38 pm

Do any of the non-Charlotte posters remember 2006-7? The year where Kaman averaged 10 points and 7.8 rebounds as a starter. Even today his game isn't exactly a model of consistency. He isn’t a bad player but he clearly isn’t the borderline all-star that Richardson is.

Post #15 » by **BigSlam** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:54 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:Do any of the non-Charlotte posters remember 2006-7? The year where Kaman averaged 10 points and 7.8 rebounds as a starter. Even today his game isn't exactly a model of consistency. He isn’t a bad player but he clearly isn’t the borderline all-star that Richardson is.

I brought the same thing up at BP Vandy.

Have people actually watched a lot of Kaman play? Does he even have a refined post game or is it just an assumption that he does? If we traded someone like Crash for him, would we just be getting another version of EO50 in return or would we be getting a legit "Al Jefferson" type post player who could get us easy baskets and we could go to in the post?

If he's not a true post offensive player, then I don't think I want him. I mean, he has about 12.4 shots a game. Give EO50 12.5 shots a game and they would put up the exact same numbers - I'm more interested in HOW Kaman puts up his numbers.

Post #16 » by **fatlever** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:43 pm

i've always felt kaman had a pretty solid post game. maybe a clipper homer could provide more insight.

dmutombo321 · Post #17 » by **dmutombo321** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:20 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:Do any of the non-Charlotte posters remember 2006-7? The year where Kaman averaged 10 points and 7.8 rebounds as a starter. Even today his game isn't exactly a model of consistency. He isn’t a bad player but he clearly isn’t the borderline all-star that Richardson is.

Agreed that it would be insane to trade Richardson for Kaman.

However, with respect to Kaman's 06-07 season, he was playing with a 20-12 PF in Elton Brand. Its no surprise that his numbers were modest; there are only so many rebounds and post touches to go around in a situation like that.

The following year, when Brand was out injured and Kaman had free reign to operate, he was one of the 5 best centers in the league. He was a ~16 pt ~13 rb 2.5 block 2 assist guy shooting nearly 50% from the field.

Have people actually watched a lot of Kaman play? Does he even have a refined post game or is it just an assumption that he does?

I watched him numerous times on league pass last year. He's an outstanding post player with soft hands and great fundementals. He's ambidextrous and can also hit open mid range jumpers and shoots, for a center, a very good % from the charity stripe. He's basically a bigger better version of Okafor - his equal defensively but with the addition of a post game and the size of a true center. If Okafor could be traded for Kaman (and I realize as a BYC that he cant), I would be all for it. Not sure why the Clips would consider it though.

If he's not a true post offensive player, then I don't think I want him. I mean, he has about 12.4 shots a game. Give EO50 12.5 shots a game and they would put up the exact same numbers

If you look back over the first two years of the Franchise, EO50 took 12.95 shots per game. He averaged 14.1 ppg but his FG% was atrocious for a bigman - barely 43%. This underscores Okafor's lack of post scoring ability.

In subsequent years, Okafor's FG% improved. Why? He took fewer shots per game and a greater proportion of the ones he did take were garbage buckets and put backs. With the acquisition of Richardson and the emergence of Wallace, there was no longer any reason to force feed a mediocre post player for low percentage shots.

Now, to be fair, Okafor's not completely inept offensively a la Ben Wallace, but he's certainly not a post scoring threat worthy of a double team. If there's a mismatch down low, by all means, feed EO the ball and let him try to capitalize. Otherwise, his activities need to be restricted to defense, rebounding and garbage points when Felton or DJ find him open down low in traffic for a dunk (or, in Okafor's case, a soft layup).

Okafor is the best draft selection in the history of our franchise and his contributions on the boards and defensively are immense. Nonetheless, as I've contended all along, he'll never be an allstar (He's a double double machine but his 12 and 11 type numbers are a little different than the 20+ and 12 type numbers historically posted by duncan, Howard and others in his company) and I feel Charlotte overpaid for his services.

W_HAMILTON · Post #18 » by **W_HAMILTON** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:08 am

Okafor also saw double teams his rookie year since he was just about the only scorer we had, and his offense has much improved since his rookie season.

If you give him the same number of shots as his rookie season now, he would average more points and do so with a better shooting percentage.

And there's been about two seasons where Okafor could have possibly been in the All-Star game, but didn't receive the nod because we had a bad record. If we were even a 40-win team over each season that Okafor was here, he most likely would have made the All-Star team at least once (same goes for Wallace).

WaydownSouth · Post #19 » by **WaydownSouth** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:42 am

Wiretap has a Kaman for J-Rich scenario... I really really hope this is someone blowing smoke up someone's bum......

ohara · Post #20 » by **ohara** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:00 pm

Can the FO be so enamored w/ the DJ and Ray combo that they trade J-Rich for Kaman? I cant see that being a fair deal to us unless there is more to it. Kaman is a quality Big, but J-Rich for Kaman straight up is not a fair deal for the Cats. Another player or the Clipper's 2009 1st evens it up some.