GT: Charlotte v. Boston 7:00pm

W_HAMILTON · Post #101 » by **W_HAMILTON** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:16 am

No. That is not the way it has been used, especially last year. It was used as an insult, as in, "oh, there goes Crash trying to be Superman again, ho-hum another loss."

As I said, yes, sometimes Wallace tries to take over the game, but he's one of the few players we have that actually has shown he can do that on a consistent basis. So, why do people insult him for doing it, but not Felton, when on many occassions he has performed the same way he did tonight in the 4th?

Wallace and Felton both try to be "Superman" and take the team on their shoulders often enough, the only difference is Wallace usually more successful doing so. So, I don't see why people mock Wallace by sticking him with that label.

Post #102 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:32 am

I think that Felton takes his fair share of hits on this and any other Bobcat message board.

ohara · Post #103 » by **ohara** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:34 am

I know I've only been here since May, but I never got the idea people were using the term "superman" with Crash as derogatory. I took it as a compliment because of his acrobatic and all out style of hustle. Yes, he is the one who more than any others seems to be able to take the team on his shoulders in crunch time (although now I think J-Rich has equaled him). But with Ray, it is more insulting in nature. Simply because Ray is is far more likely to be shooting the ball when he's ice cold than Crash doing so when ice cold. That is because Crash seldom will have a night like Ray did. And Ray just seems to have the mentality of I'll shoot my way out of it", but he does so when the game is hanging in the balance. And he seldom gets hot. The Pacer game was the exception. And that is why people get angry and refer to him as "trying to be Superman." That is my understanding.

Post #104 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:37 am

ohara wrote:That is because Crash seldom will have a night like Ray did.

Didn't Crash go 2-10 last night?

Felton for Pres · Post #105 » by **Felton for Pres** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:43 am

This is an interesting debate. The "Superman" label is one issue and I still hold that I think that is a back handed compliment. However, being the "Hero" is a different story. More times than I can recall, Felton has been the guy put in the position to win the game with a drive. Why is that? I don't know. Planned? Felton asserting himself? Both? Neither? I think Felton can be a great player, however, he's not my first or second choice on this team to take the final shot.

I think the label issue is driven by the fact that we all think Wallace could be a star if he didn't shoot like Bill Cartwright.

My question is, why isn't JRich taking these shoots?

DaBassSource · Post #106 » by **DaBassSource** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:56 am

Just got back from the game...this one sucked...Ray shot like ****....
But one thing people forget is Ray is the only one(maybe two) that at times can get past his man to get off a shot...now when he is on then he looks great but when he's off he just looks like a guy missing a lot of shots...

I don't think Ray or Crash tries to be Supermen just because they want glory, I think they are just trying to help the team win games...

J-Rich "hurt" could hardley move.... Crash could, but it takes long for him to get open...he's better in ISO. So it was only Ray and DJ that could get open and get a shot off quickly...Just a bad night to have a bad night....

DaBassSource · Post #107 » by **DaBassSource** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:58 am

Felton for Pres wrote:This is an interesting debate. The "Superman" label is one issue and I still hold that I think that is a back handed compliment. However, being the "Hero" is a different story. More times than I can recall, Felton has been the guy put in the position to win the game with a drive. Why is that? I don't know. Planned? Felton asserting himself? Both? Neither? I think Felton can be a great player, however, he's not my first or second choice on this team to take the final shot.

I think the label issue is driven by the fact that we all think Wallace could be a star if he didn't shoot like Bill Cartwright.

My question is, why isn't JRich taking these shoots?

J-Rich did not look 100%.

Post #108 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:01 am

I think we're just poorly constructed. Teams know when they see Richardson on the floor late in the game to man him up and to sag off of Wallace. This limits the pgs options.

I said I would wait until Jrich came back and after a back to back when he was on fire is the wrong time for me to rip into Felton, so I'll wait. He's the guy than ran the show for a National Championship team and was the Naismith Prep Player of the Year before that level, so I think he generally feels like he's an acceptable option to win the game and he's got the shooters mentality at this point after logging so many minutes at pg in his NBA career. I've called this ego in the past and I don't mean that he's a jerk or a hothead, just that he thinks he's more capable than he actually is. Anyway, I'm willing to give him a pass when he's played almost 90 minutes in 48 hours.

ohara · Post #109 » by **ohara** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:17 pm

BigSlam wrote:
ohara wrote:That is because Crash seldom will have a night like Ray did.

Didn't Crash go 2-10 last night?

That's 50% more shots than Crash took. And when Crash is cold, he gets the ball to the hot guys. My disappointment with Ray is that he just keeps on shooting.

W_HAMILTON · Post #110 » by **W_HAMILTON** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:09 pm

Felton is the only guy on the team that you regularly see shoot 2-15, 3-15, etc.

If I said someone on our team shot 2-15, who is the first player that comes to mind?

But that's somewhat besides the point, because what I was talking about is why Wallace gets criticized for trying to do too much and hurting the team, whereas Felton gets a pass. As I said, games like the Indiana one are the exception. Felton regularly tries to do what he did last night in Boston, and he usually comes away with the same result. Wallace may try to take it on himself the same way sometimes, but he's got a lot better success rate.

That's why I don't see why he got stuck with that insulting label. Even though it wouldn't be the first time that a Bobcats player gets some bs crap attached to them by a few idiots saying something over and over again, regardless of whether or not it is true.

spectre_ · Post #111 » by **spectre_** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:28 pm

ohara wrote:
BigSlam wrote:
ohara wrote:That is because Crash seldom will have a night like Ray did.

Didn't Crash go 2-10 last night?

That's 50% more shots than Crash took. And when Crash is cold, he gets the ball to the hot guys. My disappointment with Ray is that he just keeps on shooting.

He also shot 14 FTs (making 12, which was stellar), so you can probably add about 7 shots to that total. He was getting the calls, but that's one of the pluses with the way he throws himself at the rim.

Regardless, I'd prefer some other options at the end of the game...esp. sine we went that way 3 times. Maybe have Ammo in there for a kick out as he's become pretty decent at hitting the big shot.

Post #112 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:41 pm

W_HAMILTON wrote:That's why I don't see why he got stuck with that insulting label.

I'm not sure anyone else finds it insulting other than yourself?

ohara · Post #113 » by **ohara** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:41 pm

I have to agree Spectre. I would like for Ammo or Carroll to have been out there, too. Someone who has the threat of hitting from deep besides J-Rich. I did not realize J-Rich was still hurting as much as he apparently is hurting. But Ammo can hit the deep 3, and we know that Carroll use to be able to hit it, and hopefully starts up again being a dead on shot from deep.

spectre_ · Post #114 » by **spectre_** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:50 pm

I've always thought that Crash is more a Spiderman type vs. Superman. 8-)

W_HAMILTON · Post #115 » by **W_HAMILTON** » Mon Dec 1, 2008 1:53 am

BigSlam wrote:I'm not sure anyone else finds it insulting other than yourself?

It is insulting to blame Wallace for him trying to do what it takes to win. The only reason the other people have said they don't find it insulting is because they aren't understanding the way people have used the term in the past. If the search option was working, and the posts go back far enough, I'm sure I could find posts that show what I'm talking about.

Are you saying that no one has complained about Wallace trying to do too much, hurting the team in the process? And I'm not talking about, "oh, Wallace is trying to do too much, he's going to get hurt!" I'm not stupid. I can separate that type of stuff. I'm talking about people criticizing Wallace for trying to take the team on his shoulders, ie, the same type of stuff Felton does quite a bit in the 4th, but Felton has shown to be much worse at it.

That's why I want to know why Wallace is the one that gets stuck with an insulting label.

Post #116 » by **BigSlam** » Mon Dec 1, 2008 2:28 am

W_HAMILTON wrote:Are you saying that no one has complained about Wallace trying to do too much, hurting the team in the process? And I'm not talking about, "oh, Wallace is trying to do too much, he's going to get hurt!" I'm not stupid. I can separate that type of stuff. I'm talking about people criticizing Wallace for trying to take the team on his shoulders, ie, the same type of stuff Felton does quite a bit in the 4th, but Felton has shown to be much worse at it.

I totally know what you are talking about. No need to explain. Of course people have complained. Heck, I have been one of them. Most Bobcats fans love Crash but at the same time can be frustrated with some of the things he does.

It's a catch 22. What he does best is what frustrates people at times. Not all the time, just times.

You act like Felts has a golden umbrella, but that is not the case at all. He is criticized just like everyone else is. Sure, he might have more supporters due to the school he went to (rightfully or wrongly) but it's not like people are oblivious to his flaws.

Crash is so close to being a super star in the league but his shortfalls wont allow him to. It can be as simple as not passing the ball up on the break, but stuff like that can be a sticking point.

Crash is a great player, but not really a player that makes those around him better.

W_HAMILTON · Post #117 » by **W_HAMILTON** » Mon Dec 1, 2008 2:38 am

Wallace shouldn't have been the one stuck with that label, since Felton tries to do the same sorts of things just as often, except he's usually much less successful at it. That's my point.

All those people bitching about Wallace trying to do too much should be just as angry, if not moreso for the reason I said above, at Felton.

Rich4114 · Post #118 » by **Rich4114** » Mon Dec 1, 2008 3:23 am

Felton is this teams whipping boy, I think you should maybe use Okafor as a better example (of getting free passes for sucking at times).

W_HAMILTON · Post #119 » by **W_HAMILTON** » Mon Dec 1, 2008 6:45 am

Rich4114 wrote:Felton is this teams whipping boy, I think you should maybe use Okafor as a better example (of getting free passes for sucking at times).

Okafor doesn't get passes (no pun intended). People bitch about him all the time. It seems like with some people, he can do no right.

Get 20 rebounds and shoot well? Ehh, maybe I'll give him a silver gameball.

Get a ho-hum double-double? Ehh, I might give him an honorable mention, I certainly can't give him a gameball, someone else scored 28 points on 19 shots!

Get 6 rebounds and shoot 3-5 from the field? OMG WE ARE PAYING HIM A GAZILLION DOLLARS WHAT A LOSER.

That's why I don't vote in that silly gameball thread anymore, because it's a joke. But this type of thinking would be around even if not for the gameball threads. Okafor apparently has to have career games to get recognition, whereas other players post comparable or WORSE stats almost across-the-board than last year, and they are our "MVP." Suuuuuuuuuure.

It's absurd.

nolimit16 · Post #120 » by **nolimit16** » Mon Dec 1, 2008 5:59 pm

W_HAMILTON wrote:Felton is the only guy on the team that you regularly see shoot 2-15, 3-15, etc.

Augustin and Wallace have just as many games with poor shooting as Felton has, and probably our whole roster has. So, that is not a valid argument.

Okafor's problem is that he looks like he is scared of everyone. I would call him a certain name but I will refrain from that. He will not dunk the ball unless nobody is within 3 feet of him, which causes the majority of his shots to be blocked which should not happen as much as it does. Everytime someone passes it to him he is afraid to grab it. It's like that one cheerleader girl you have in every school that is afraid to do anything because she might break a nail.

He needs to learn how to play with little fear.