ImageImage

Bobcatters' Consulting Firm

Moderators: fatlever, JDR720, Diop, BigSlam, yosemiteben

User avatar
bobcatters
Sophomore
Posts: 115
And1: 0
Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC

Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#1 » by bobcatters » Sat Jan 3, 2009 4:43 pm

Free advice to a company that needs corporate restructuring amongst the leadership.

Let us assume the following rumors, stories, sausage, and/or wise tails are at least based in some fact:

1) Augustin was drafted at the last second without a workout or interview on the insistence of Coach Brown. Jordan's plan going into the draft was to draft Lopez if available, but deferred to Brown's last second whim.

2) Jordan was allegedly out of the country when the team signed Juwan Howard and was not pleased when he heard about it. Jordan had Howard in Washington and was unimpressed with Howard's attitude. (Recall that Howard was grossly overpaid and under-producing for the last few years of his big contract) Jordan allegedly blamed Brown for the deal and felt that Brown went behind his back.

3) Jordan had nothing to do with the Richardson trade. It was initiated by Brown and negotiated by Higgins. Steve Kerr on Bill Simmons' podcast stated that he never talked to Jordan during the process. I would not expect Jordan to be burning up the phone lines, but it would seem that as Head of Basketball Operations, he would have talked, at least conceptually, to the Suns' Head of Pperations at least once or twice.

If any or all of these vignettes have some truth, I posit that Brown is running the team and Jordan is merely a figurehead. If so, this is clearly in the interest of the team as Brown has a much better eye for talent and Jordan has proven over the years that he should not be in the picking players business. I would propose that Jordan formally hand over personnel decisions to Brown. I would propose this on the condition that Jordan has unqualified veto power over any deal.

This system would be in the Bobcats' interest. Brown is a tireless worker and expects the same from his charges. He would demand the most from the scouting ranks and would be in the best position to choose players and make deals. However, it is well documented that Brown's greatest weakness is impatience and his need to tinker. Jordan has the pedigree to wield the veto power sparingly and in a way that will not bruise Brown's ego. Jordan would not have to deal with the minutiae of running a team, but could still give the final go-ahead on big decisions. He could give the allusion of being an executive without having to do the work. This arrangement is beneficial because even from the 5th tee box, Jordan can quash an irrational Brown move:

Scene: Following an embarrassing blowout loss to the Bucks.

Brown: Michael, I just worked out a trade that will ship Okafor, Carroll, Felton and Wallace to Real Madrid for Sergio Ramos and future considerations.

Jordan: What position does Ramos play?

Brown: Right Fullback.

Jordan: What?

Brown: He also is on the Spanish national team that just won Euro 2008,

Jordan: Is this Real Madrid the Soccer club or the Basketball club?

Brown: Does it matter?

Jordan: Larry, lets put this one on hold for now.

END SCENE

As you see, Jordan does not have the work ethic to work deals, scout players and run a program day to day. However, he does have the ability to oversee and check Brown when he is being unnecessarily reactionary. Higgins can keep making the phone calls and cashing checks. This would be the best for Bobcats fans and the organization.

On this board, there seems to be a lot of talk about trading players and drafting prospects, but I think the focus needs to be on the organizational structure. Without a strong, and transparent structure, there can be no solid vision. If some deals are Jordan deals and some deals are Brown deals, this team will continue to be a hodgepodge of misfit toys. The rest of the league needs to know who is running this team.

It appears that Brown conceded to at least give the Jordan players a chance and he has done so to no avail. I image that before the season, Brown wanted to blow up the team, but Jordan convinced him that the players really are not that bad and should be given a chance. I then imagine that Brown gave them a "chance" and recently went back to Jordan and said, "I tried it with your guys and it is not working, my turn." I predict that there will be several moves coming in the next two months and a lot of the guys we consider foundational Bobcats will be gone. This is for the best.

I just hope before these trades happen, it becomes known that they are Brown deals and that Jordan has approved them. It is not healthy for the franchise to have outsiders wondering who did any particular deal and was it by consensus or a unilateral act.

First consultation is free, I bill hourly for the next installment.
Bobcatters 3.0; New Home, Same Poster.
User avatar
SamBone
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,477
And1: 4
Joined: Feb 06, 2006

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#2 » by SamBone » Sat Jan 3, 2009 5:33 pm

We all know about Jordan's talent judging, but were are all of Larry's great choices? Who has he ever drafted that he kept on any team he coached? Larry's track record is to draft a guy that only he thinks will be great, then give up on him and trade him for nothing because he devalued him completely. I would like to here examples of great Larry moves from the past that makes you soo comfortable, because I have zero faith in this organization from top to bottom. BB was clueless, but had the players work their ass off and the teams were fun to watch. Ever since he was kicked off of the sidelines and then out of the front office, this team and organization has been painful to root for and watch.

Lets see what Larry did in his short stay here. He cut our 2nd round pick from last season who most people liked (J.Davidson), Used this years #2 to draft a defensive combo guard and then decide to trade him after summer league for a future #2, he raved all preseason how hard of a worker A.Brown was and that he could be our starting PF, only to deactivate him for the opener and then cut him a week later. Sign a SG/ 3rd string PG (S.Brown) that never played the point before, watch him actually hustle and show atheticism only to be rewarded with being deactivated for 75% of the games. He bitched and bitched that we had no defensive minded SF and decide to sign L.Johnson 24 hours before the first game, then play him 25ish minutes after just 1 practice and then give up on him a week later and cut him to free up a spot to fly home from Turkey a much needed BIG (because he refuses to play Twiggy) in D.Jones only to play him big minutes for 2 games and then cut him two weeks later to sign a washed up 36 year old guy that has been out of the league all seaon to play him 5-10 minutes a night, so he could not use the 1st rounder project that he fell in love with and who shows promise and hard work to only be used to sit at the end of the bench instead of sending him to the d league and let him play 35 minutes a game an grow as a player. Plus add in the way he totally has humiliated McMay and says he can not play him because he is fat! he has completly took all the confidence away from Ammo and Hammer and has both of them afraid to shoot and never knowing when or what position they will be playing. And he has only been here for about 5 months.
2012 GMAT Christmas Edition : OKC Thunder

PG: DWill / Bayless
SG: DWade / VC / Grant Hill
SF: KD / MWP
PF: Ibaka / Landry
C : DMC / Dalembert / Kelly Olynyk

draft rites to Serey Karaey
User avatar
bobcatters
Sophomore
Posts: 115
And1: 0
Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#3 » by bobcatters » Sat Jan 3, 2009 5:41 pm

Accepting the premise that both Jordan and Brown are here to stay and will not bring in another decision maker, how would you propose the corporate structure work?

Maybe under my paradigm, there would have been less "tinkering." The Davidson, Brown, Johnson and Jones moves do not bother me. All it cost was money. Not my money.

It is hard to look at past Brown moves because they were all done in a clandestine manner. I would like to see how he does when he is allowed to openly and notoriously make moves. It could fail, but under the current structure, it is the best I can come up with.

Thank you for your response. I want to take this board away from Sports Talk Radio and have more analytical posts. There are some good posters like you, Slam, Rich, Paydro, Hamilton and Fats to get us started. If I read one more inane trade proposal, I may go back into hiding.
Bobcatters 3.0; New Home, Same Poster.
User avatar
SamBone
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,477
And1: 4
Joined: Feb 06, 2006

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#4 » by SamBone » Sat Jan 3, 2009 5:53 pm

couldn't agree more about the STUPID trade ideas and non rumors. I just really am not a fan of LB. I live in Philly and used to be a Sixers fan until Larry dismantled the team and traded all the young players for older deadbeats and then rewarded them with long bad contracts and then stab them in the back to take a better job. Not to mention when he needed a SG/SF to play alongside AI and passed on Paul Pierce to draft a freshman project player from a small conference school (Larry Hughes) only to trade him away a year later because he sucked. Not to mention him trading away a young Jerry Stackhouse for Theo Ratliffe and Aaron McKie (sound close to the JRich deal) I could go on and on for days about the horrable trades and draft picks he has made over the years and none of those players have ever done well while on his team. I see the same things repeating here which kills me because I have become a good fan of this team that I thought had alot of potential 2 and 3 years ago to only become painful to watch.
2012 GMAT Christmas Edition : OKC Thunder

PG: DWill / Bayless
SG: DWade / VC / Grant Hill
SF: KD / MWP
PF: Ibaka / Landry
C : DMC / Dalembert / Kelly Olynyk

draft rites to Serey Karaey
User avatar
nugentrk
Junior
Posts: 288
And1: 0
Joined: Jan 31, 2008
Location: New Orleans

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#5 » by nugentrk » Sat Jan 3, 2009 6:17 pm

The Cats need to fire larry Brown and hire a coach to well coach. If they wanted Brown to be our GM, Higgins would be long gone. Brown is overrated. He got out coach by Isaiah Thomas (06/07). Currently, Brown is on track to be slightly worst than Sam Vincent.
Image
User avatar
BigSlam
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 51,164
And1: 8,360
Joined: Jul 01, 2005

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#6 » by BigSlam » Sat Jan 3, 2009 6:24 pm

Interesting topic Catters. It's great to have you back on the board. Hope you stick around.

I touched on this sort of thing a couple of weeks ago (not sure if you read it? viewtopic.php?f=53&t=861501).

The basis of what I was saying was that I don't know if MJ and LB can coexist. They are both such strong personalities with very different ideas of what a team should be and how it should be constructed.

As we are currently designed, I would rather MJ take a back seat and providing LB IS going to stick around for the full 4 years, follow his direction with MJ doing the dog and pony thing he hates so much and Higgins working the phones getting LB what he wants.

Fact is, we haven't improved in years and unless we blow it up, we will continue to not improve.
B B M F 'ers
User avatar
bobcatters
Sophomore
Posts: 115
And1: 0
Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#7 » by bobcatters » Sat Jan 3, 2009 6:31 pm

nugentrk wrote:The Cats need to fire larry Brown and hire a coach to well coach. If they wanted Brown to be our GM, Higgins would be long gone. Brown is overrated. He got out coach by Isaiah Thomas (06/07). Currently, Brown is on track to be slightly worst than Sam Vincent.


Can this post be deleted? This is the Sportstalk nonsense that is not beneficial to this topic.
Bobcatters 3.0; New Home, Same Poster.
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 58,893
And1: 15,486
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#8 » by fatlever » Sat Jan 3, 2009 9:27 pm

catters, great post. i've really enjoyed the topics you've come up with lately. we've needed a fresh take on things for a while.

plus, any post with random soccer references is always a plus.

i dont really have anything fresh to add to the discussion, unfortunately. i agree with pretty much everything you said.

lb or mj, solo, left to their own devices = trouble. one is impatient and the other is ignorant.
User avatar
spectre_
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,366
And1: 15
Joined: Feb 14, 2006
Location: Hornets Nation

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#9 » by spectre_ » Sun Jan 4, 2009 12:45 pm

bobcatters wrote:2) Jordan was allegedly out of the country when the team signed Juwan Howard and was not pleased when he heard about it. Jordan had Howard in Washington and was unimpressed with Howard's attitude. (Recall that Howard was grossly overpaid and under-producing for the last few years of his big contract) Jordan allegedly blamed Brown for the deal and felt that Brown went behind his back.


I have to wonder how true this is. If Hoopshype is to be believed Howard is on a vet. minimum salary and he's world's better than the euro guy (American, but was playing in Europe) we cut to bring him in...and if I'm not mistaken that euro wasn't guaranteed. The Howard signing wasn't impromptu either; that was in the news a week before it actually occured.

Plus...Higgins bucking MJ? IMO that's a stretch.

Either way tho, I agree with your conclusion...let LB run the thing. He might not have a stellar record against a lot of GMs, but compared to the bright red lollipop he's loads better.
RaptorJ wrote:they (Bobcats' fans) seem to be some of the least intelligent posters on RealGM from some of the trash they say.


Irony
The Bird
Sophomore
Posts: 139
And1: 0
Joined: Sep 20, 2006

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#10 » by The Bird » Tue Jan 6, 2009 3:02 am

It's true. I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned on here. I'm not sure if Jordan was out of the country but he definately was not happy and was dumbfounded when he heard about. I guess that's one of the few good things about sports talk radio. I'm not sure what station it was on but it was on one of the Sirius sports channels. The day we signed Howard, Jordan was on a telephone interview with one of those shows. I didn't hear the original interview but they replayed his reaction several times because it was pretty comical. This is not verbatim but it went something like this.

Host : So Michael you signed Juwan Howard today how do you feel about that.
Michael : Are you f'in kidding me, please tell me your joking.
Host: No, seriously you really did sign Howard today.
Michael: If you don't stop playing I'm going to f'in hang up.
Host: Seriously the Bobcats signed Juwan Howard today I'm not kidding.
Michael: I told you I would f'in hang up. (Click)
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 58,893
And1: 15,486
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#11 » by fatlever » Tue Jan 6, 2009 4:05 am

bird, are you ****' me? if that's for real, that's some hilarious stuff. considering mj's history on talent evaluation i dont know if its a good thing or a bad thing, but i had a similar reaction.
The Bird
Sophomore
Posts: 139
And1: 0
Joined: Sep 20, 2006

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#12 » by The Bird » Tue Jan 6, 2009 6:21 am

Like I said it's not verbatim, so I might of embellished it with an extra f'in but his response was similar to what I wrote. He definately thought the host was just joking at first, dropped the f bomb, and wasn't happy. Whether he was upset that we got Howard, or the fact he didn't know before the host, or because he just thought the host was kidding with him, I don't know.
My initial reaction to it was why did we get Howard, better be at the vet min, why didn't MJ know beforehand, and when was it allowed to cuss on the radio. They replayed it later in the day and didn't bleep it out. It actually ended up being pretty hilarious hearing it later in the day and it informed me of the fact that they can cuss and talk about the nasty chit they want to on Sirius. Some of the things I heard on there were sick but I'm going to miss it, been driving a rental for almost a month just returned it today. It was nice to have over a 100 channels and no commericals.
User avatar
spectre_
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,366
And1: 15
Joined: Feb 14, 2006
Location: Hornets Nation

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#13 » by spectre_ » Tue Jan 6, 2009 10:54 am

Dude, you were punked.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports ... 54228.html

Why, then, did forward Juwan Howard become a Charlotte Bobcat?

When Michael (Jordan, the team's managing partner) told my agent they were interested, I was flattered,” Howard recalled. “They're not a lock to be a playoff team, but they're very talented. They have enough talent to win ball games and the right coach.
RaptorJ wrote:they (Bobcats' fans) seem to be some of the least intelligent posters on RealGM from some of the trash they say.


Irony
User avatar
Felton for Pres
Pro Prospect
Posts: 902
And1: 0
Joined: May 16, 2008
Location: Queen City

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#14 » by Felton for Pres » Tue Jan 6, 2009 2:39 pm

The Bird wrote:It's true. I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned on here. I'm not sure if Jordan was out of the country but he definately was not happy and was dumbfounded when he heard about. I guess that's one of the few good things about sports talk radio. I'm not sure what station it was on but it was on one of the Sirius sports channels. The day we signed Howard, Jordan was on a telephone interview with one of those shows. I didn't hear the original interview but they replayed his reaction several times because it was pretty comical. This is not verbatim but it went something like this.

Host : So Michael you signed Juwan Howard today how do you feel about that.
Michael : Are you f'in kidding me, please tell me your joking.
Host: No, seriously you really did sign Howard today.
Michael: If you don't stop playing I'm going to f'in hang up.
Host: Seriously the Bobcats signed Juwan Howard today I'm not kidding.
Michael: I told you I would f'in hang up. (Click)


This is hilarious. Some people are so gulliable. Guys, this was on the Packman show on WFNZ. They have a guy how sounds kinda like Jordan that calls in from time to time and mocks Jordan and his absentee status.

If it got picked up on Sirius, I'd be absolutely stunned.
The Bird
Sophomore
Posts: 139
And1: 0
Joined: Sep 20, 2006

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#15 » by The Bird » Wed Jan 7, 2009 1:07 am

You might be right. However I wasn't even in NC when I heard it and it was definately on Sirius either one of the ESPNs or another one I think it might have just been called Sports News because those and a few music channels were what I had preset. Hey maybe me and two of my coworkers were just naive but it seemed real to us. I guess they got us oh well.
User avatar
Felton for Pres
Pro Prospect
Posts: 902
And1: 0
Joined: May 16, 2008
Location: Queen City

Re: Bobcatters' Consulting Firm 

Post#16 » by Felton for Pres » Wed Jan 7, 2009 3:14 am

The specific conversation isn't on the website but two others are. I highly recommend them.

http://www.wfnz.com/Primetime-with-Packman/136218

Return to Charlotte Hornets