Does anybody still think Ray should be gone?

[Dexmor]

Raymond Felton is basically our best talent. Always was. Now he is playing like our best player. It would be very stupid to trade him now. When DJ comes back we will be even better and now I truely believe that 8th seed is ours barring any stupid trades.
We have no point of reference and no history really with the Cats being so new but LB and MJ and RH if your reading this DONT TRADE FELTON.
3 weeks ago Felton for Watson would have been understandable. Now it's just insane.
Does anybody here still think Felton should go?
They need to take him off the block.
He can even play the 2 so DJ can still get plenty of pt for all the DJ lovers here.
Felton is the closest thing we have to a franchise player or future star.

So seriously anybody here still wanna trade Felton? I wanna buy his jersey and hang it on the wall. He's got some mentors now to with Bell, Diaw and LB so it would be silly to not sign him and even worse to trade him.

[e4Nf6]

He has been playing better but lets not go crazy just yet. Crash and Mek (at least) have both been clearly better this year than Felton. Now if you want to say he is our best "talent," than I suppose thats another question.

The problem with trading Felton is that as a team 9 games below .500 we probably wont get decent value. (or what we think is decent value) If the deal was good, it would make sense to trade Felton for a stud SG and balance out our roster a bit. But, I dont imagine we will get a shot at a player we want.

We should just keep him until the deals look fair. Even resign him in the offseason. I dont think he is going to be as rediculously expensive as some here do. The full MLE should be enough.

[Walt Cronkite]

After all of his recent games, I definitely didn't expect to see this after yesterday's one. Couldn't use his quickness to stop dribble penetration (from TP or Hill), bad shot decision, etc.

Agree with E4 about riding the situation out until we finally get a good deal or worst case resign him to the mle. If he wants to go to Europe for more money, good luck with that. I can't imagine a scenario right now where a team with cap space goes over the mle for Felton, especially in a draft loaded with pgs.

[spectre_]

^ I didn't think he had that bad of a game last night. Ingram in his courtside blog even attributed getting the lead in the 3rd (in part) to Felton:

Charlotte had a nice third quarter lead building on the Spurs thanks to some marvelous play from Raymond Felton, but the closer it got to the end of the period, the more intense the Spurs became, and by the start of the fourth it was only 68-63 Bobcats.

He did pull the trigger way too early at around the 30 second mark, but the last drive was probably the right move. In regards to TP, well I think he's one of the best at getting penetration...and I also don't know how well Felton's ankle has healed from the injury last week.

Either way, I agree with e4Nf6 almost totally; let's not get crazy. If we could get a lotto pick, totally clear Nazr's deal AND something else or get a prospect and a short deal (like Randolph/Williams...GSW) then absolutely. Otherwise I'd be fine with a full MLE 3 year deal with a player option sort of like what we did previously with Crash. Still tradable and we'd not be tied long tem

[chabber]

I wanted him gone before the season because I didn't see the team going anywhere w/o a PF.

Now that we have one and not only that but some legitimate big men, I like the depth we have at the PG right now. I'm not sold on either one of them being named our PG of the future yet but I've seen progress in Felton's game this year even if it's ever so slight and how it can improve as the team does. So I'm down with waiting this thing out and either hoping we get a deal we can't pass up or that he'll sign back with us cheap during the off-season. I definitely wouldn't force a trade.

Some of the positives I've seen: Not necessarily all about Felton but how he and the team are effectively working together.

Less ball domination - I know it still happens especially late in games but the addition of DJ and Boris has given us other options. Felton does not have to be the bailout guy as much and right now for the month of January Felts FG% has improved up to 44%. I know we need to give it more time because a month samples size isn't enough but my hope is that the new personnel and better shot selection will translate into improved efficiency in his overall game. I'd imagine this would be even better if we can grab a wing player with handles in the upcoming draft.

Better vision - It's still erratic for sure but I think someone has been working with him looking at film and pointing out guys he's missed on certain plays that were wide open. He's impressed me multiple times this year with some very nice passes to spots on the floor that he never used to see. He still has better vision than DJ does to me right now.

Defense - Having every starter being at least above average on the defensive side of the ball is one of my favorite things about our team right now and Felts is a big part of that. Sure he's going to struggle with the quicker PG's like TP etc.. but he's very good on the rest of them. I thought he played Bayless very well the other night. Maybe in time DJ can learn to use his quickness to give us a different look on the faster guards in the league.

[e4Nf6]

First of all, TP goes around EVERYBODY. I don't blame Felts for that. Hill on the other hand....

Look at what happened to Toronto last year. They were in the exact situation as us, 2 good PG's and only 48 minutes to play them. The logical thing to do was trade one for a player at another position to balance out the roster. They decided they were going to trade TJ Ford for the best player available. The best available at that moment wasn't so great. Fast forward a bit and Jermaine O'neal has been bad, while the Raps have taken a precipitous fall in the standings.

I once head a businessman say something like: "I never made a good deal that I wasn't willing to walk away from," In other words, you only get good deals when you aren't desperate.

[BigSlam]

^ I didn't think he had that bad of a game last night.

I thought he had a pretty ordinary game yesterday. He reverted a little the Felts of old (some crazy, out of control drives for example). He also had 9 assists mid way through the 3rd and finished the game with the same amount.

Back on track though:

I think Spectre has the best idea. Sign him to a 3 year deal on the cheap. That way we get the best of all worlds.

- He can continue to mentor/help DJ
- If he continues to improve it makes him easier to trade later because he'll have a good contract
- If DJ bombs we can trade him and we already have Felts

I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, but if a "can't say no" type deal came along, I'd be all over it.

[spectre_]

^ I didn't think he had that bad of a game last night.

I thought he had a pretty ordinary game yesterday. He reverted a little the Felts of old (some crazy, out of control drives for example). He also had 9 assists mid way through the 3rd and finished the game with the same amount.

Yah..."not that bad of a game" is pretty much the same as ordinary, or what I was meaning anyway.

In regards to assists (and without poring over the logs/stats), if I remember right LB went with the bench in between the 3rd and 4th. I know Felton played some in that stretch, but it wasn't our conventional group and let's just face it....they sucked.

We also didn't score a freaking FG in like the last 5 minutes (Boris had a layup somewhere around there) and just made FTs.

Not one of his better games, but not really one to be called out on either IMO.

[BigSlam]

Not one of his better games, but not really one to be called out on either IMO.

I think there was probably 3 or 4 things he could have been called out on - easily - the smacked of the "old Felts".

In saying that, it would be foolish for us to expect perfection from anyone.

[Dexmor]

He's the only guy we can go to in the clutch. He is clearly our best talent and as of the past 5 games arguably our best player. Arguably. Raja Bell gave it up because he couldn't create anything and Mek we all know doesn't know how to spell create and even though Felts got his shot blocked that was a good move with good timing cause it gave us time for another shot. We all know he has the talent but when your a pg that can score and have nobody on your team who can it's almost impossible to develop properly. Were seeing what he can do with a not a joke anymore team. Imagine if he had some real talent?
Don't you guys see him being traded and then breaking out? I would rather keep him and let him break out here when we become a better team.

[Walt Cronkite]

Not one of his better games, but not really one to be called out on either IMO.

I think there was probably 3 or 4 things he could have been called out on - easily - the smacked of the "old Felts".

In saying that, it would be foolish for us to expect perfection from anyone.

I mean, I'm not saying dump him... I think we're all in agreement that it's good to have pg depth and that he can be resigned for the mle and that's fair value. I'm just sayin, of all the games lately that this could've been created, this game wasn't the best choice. Still, the boxscore looks excellent for Felts-- I guess I'm just down on him for some plays that really stick out.

Blown layup in the 3rd that was soooo easy if he just layed it in, instead he did a pump scoop while uncontested (made both fts though)

2nd to last stop of the game and he rewards his mates with a bad shot.

last shot he gets 7 feet from the basket with 7 defenders around and just HAS to take the shot.

Compounded with poor defense. IDK, maybe it was a game planning issue and LB preferred to let Hill and Parker dribble in as long as we packed in the paint, but it looked like bad defense to me.

[spectre_]

Not one of his better games, but not really one to be called out on either IMO.

I think there was probably 3 or 4 things he could have been called out on - easily - the smacked of the "old Felts".

In saying that, it would be foolish for us to expect perfection from anyone.

In 38 minutes against TP & Co. with no legit backup...I'd certainly agree it would be foolish to expect perfection. Besides, he had some pretty good moments as well where he helped the team.

Thing is, by "calling out" those 3 or 4 things yet ignoring the positive contributions can make one look...possibly biased.

[spectre_]

Not one of his better games, but not really one to be called out on either IMO.

I think there was probably 3 or 4 things he could have been called out on - easily - the smacked of the "old Felts".

In saying that, it would be foolish for us to expect perfection from anyone.

I mean, I'm not saying dump him... I think we're all in agreement that it's good to have pg depth and that he can be resigned for the mle and that's fair value. I'm just sayin, of all the games lately that this could've been created, this game wasn't the best choice. Still, the boxscore looks excellent for Felts-- I guess I'm just down on him for some plays that really stick out.

Blown layup in the 3rd that was soooo easy if he just layed it in, instead he did a pump scoop while uncontested (made both fts though)

2nd to last stop of the game and he rewards his mates with a bad shot.

last shot he gets 7 feet from the basket with 7 defenders around and just HAS to take the shot.

Compounded with poor defense. IDK, maybe it was a game planning issue and LB preferred to let Hill and Parker dribble in as long as we packed in the paint, but it looked like bad defense to me.

1) The "blown layup". The defender was coming right at him and he had to have seen it coming. After all the times Crash gets slammed on some of his attempts I'd like to think the team is cognizant of that.

But as you said...he got fouled and made the FTs. Why it's a big deal...

2) Totally agreed, that wasn't a good shot. He was open, but that's not how LB ball operates.

3) Wasn't there only like 5 seconds left on the clock and he'd just got the ball back from Raja (who was the #1 option)?

IMO LB should have called a timeout. The Spurs are just too darn good on the fly for his reasoning to be sound. We didn't have guys in position like we should have and it was way too "helter skelter"...lowering the odds in us succeeding.

Regardless, under the circumstances I thought it was the right play.

On the flip thru most of the game he distributed the ball well, had only 2 TOs and 3 steals. He was instrumental in getting that big lead in the 3rd.

He's no star...maybe it's the expectations? As Slam said no one is going to have a perfect game...heh, and that's going to be true for Felton more times than not.

[Dexmor]

Were all close to agreement except one thing. The midlevel exception? Diop got that. Felton could have had an identical year as last year and still got more then that. If he keeps it up I would expect more of a 5 year 35-40 million dollar deal. Guys with a ton of talent often get paid for there talent even if it hasn't been reached yet.
Look at Beno's deal. There are a ton of examples. PG's and C are arguably the most important players and because of this they often get paid the most to overpaid but never ever underpaid.
The realgm feature for this site said DJ is a scoring pg. I don't think that is really true by the way.
Do you guys see just a scorer in him? If they are right and I was wrong (which has happened before) then they really need to keep Felton because Sean is a great backup in his own right but not a playmaker by any standard.

[spectre_]

^ Someone should do a breakdown of the teams who will have cap this offseason...don't think it's going to be many? Out of those you then determine who is in desperate need for a PG.

Only those can go over the MLE. On top of that I think Felton will give us the better deal (assuming we're in the ballpark) to hang around. If not, we do a S%T.

DJ can shoot and doesn't mind shooting. I personally like that. He's not this "pass first" PG folks were saying, but he has great court vision and good speed...and he can put the ball where it needs to be. I don't have much of a problem with him offensively. Couple of things that need working on, but nothing insurmountable.

[Dexmor]

You might be a genius spec because I think the teams under the cap besides Dallas want to save there money for 2010 Im pretty sure. I believe NY would thin about it with only Duhon there and them realizing Lebron will also want players but it could be not that many teams bidding.
I don't see him giving us a discount because it's his first real contract and on top of that he has stated he wouldn't mind a fresh start.

[countryboi]

I think its time to dump ray not that his value is high...he is as good as he is every going to be and is clearly not the future....plus their is no reason to believe he will even be here next year

[Dexmor]

Larry Hughes is good but it was more out of desperation. I don't see any great sg's on the block and honestly I don't really feel they need one that bad with Bell. He gives alot and they are clearly gonna trade Wallace so maybe get a sf who can create. Maybe do a Wallace for Howard type deal or somebody who can be had for less then maybe they should. Even Odom can create and drives to the cup alot although he is fa so maybe that would be bad. If we were going to get a sg they should go after Rip or somebody that can give them what Bell does, although Rip can't create either he comes off screnes. Maybe management's job is harder then we think.
I honestly wouldn't mind keeping the team as is and make a run for it. I personally like Wallace's contract and think it's kind of a good deal and Bell is old but he doesn't have alot of miles on him and is playing alot better offensively then most people excpected.
I know you guys hate RJ but getting him would be good or maybe a Sessions and Alexander if you have to trade Felton but I would rather not.
He could be a hometown hero if he can keep it up and improve.

[countryboi]

only thing i can think is if we can get rudy away from the blazers for felton...they clearly need a point and felton maybe even better than blake plus he is hurt but there is no way they take nazr

[Rich4114]

I look at it this way, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong - but I feel like we've got more control over the game and a better chance to win when he is on the court. Even with DJ in there manning the back court with no Felton, he ends up having to call his own number a lot and when he's hitting his shot, he looks brilliant and when he's missing... well then it's no good.

I'm glad we have DJ, and he may become a star one day... but we've said that about many players we've drafted here (Felton included). But the one thing I can say now confidently is that while DJ has been unable to go and we've let Felton once again run the point exclusively... we have played our best basketball possibly ever.

Maybe until DJ gets more experience, we use him as a backup PG or SG off the bench when we need extra ball handling/scoring? There's no question that DJ can score, shoot, and make FT's (what's he like 93%?).