Question from an Outsider

ecuhus1981 · Post #1 » by **ecuhus1981** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:27 pm

Hello all, Nets/Mavericks fan here.

I wanted to get a few things straight about the Bobcats, so I figured I should check at the source.

Are the Bobcats making a push for '11 capspace?

I have heard that this was part of the reason for the Chandler-Okafor trade, and that your FO may not be done. Obviously, Crash is your franchise player and all but untradable. Boris and Desagana are the only two other large contracts that extend beyond 2011. Would a deal like Diaw/Diop for Curry/Jeffries appeal to MJ and Co.? I'm sure NYK wouldn't mind the $2.5mil in '10 capspace that it frees, and Diaw played well with D'Antoni in the past. For the 'Cats, reuniting Eddy and Tyson could be a good thing, and Jared would replace some of Boris' versatility.

P.S. I can't wait until your coach says in a press conference, "Hi, I'm Larry, this is ma brotha Gerald, and this is ma otha brotha Gerald!" (thsi joke was not meant for anyone under the age of 25)

spectre_ · Post #2 » by **spectre_** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:35 pm

Not in my opinion. When we had cap space we used it in a trade (GSW/Richardson) vs. FA. With Larry Brown here and the prevailing thought that this team needs to make the playoffs now I don't see a trade as you suggested even remotely possible.

Esp. with Boris. LB loves the guy.

RichBoy923 · Post #3 » by **RichBoy923** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:23 pm

Yeah that trade would be awful in my opinion even with the expiring Curry.

chrbal · Post #4 » by **chrbal** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:48 pm

What happened in Larry and Eddys one year together in New York that was so special, that every couple weeks there is some new "Eddy Curry to Charlotte" scenario?

It wasn't even Eddys best Knick season.

If all these scenarios involved Frye, I could understand...but its always Eddy Curry.

Battery · Post #5 » by **Battery** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:37 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:Hello all, Nets/Mavericks fan here.

I wanted to get a few things straight about the Bobcats, so I figured I should check at the source.

Are the Bobcats making a push for '11 capspace?

I have heard that this was part of the reason for the Chandler-Okafor trade, and that your FO may not be done. Obviously, Crash is your franchise player and all but untradable. Boris and Desagana are the only two other large contracts that extend beyond 2011. Would a deal like Diaw/Diop for Curry/Jeffries appeal to MJ and Co.? I'm sure NYK wouldn't mind the $2.5mil in '10 capspace that it frees, and Diaw played well with D'Antoni in the past. For the 'Cats, reuniting Eddy and Tyson could be a good thing, and Jared would replace some of Boris' versatility.

P.S. I can't wait until your coach says in a press conference, "Hi, I'm Larry, this is ma brotha Gerald, and this is ma otha brotha Gerald!" (thsi joke was not meant for anyone under the age of 25)

We made the Chandler-Okafor trade because our FO (including LB) believes this trade will make us a better team now and will also give us flexibility in the future. 2011 is irrelevant at the moment because the goal is to make the playoffs this season.

Now for your trade proposal. :roll:

Are you serious? The only thing worse than this trade is Eddy Curry's seafood diet. We have a hard enough time trying to sell tickets as is, now you want our fans to have the "privilege" of watching Eddy Curry lumbering up and down the court for 82 games?

August Us Seazr · Post #6 » by **August Us Seazr** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:20 pm

Battery wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:Hello all, Nets/Mavericks fan here.

I wanted to get a few things straight about the Bobcats, so I figured I should check at the source.

Are the Bobcats making a push for '11 capspace?

I have heard that this was part of the reason for the Chandler-Okafor trade, and that your FO may not be done. Obviously, Crash is your franchise player and all but untradable. Boris and Desagana are the only two other large contracts that extend beyond 2011. Would a deal like Diaw/Diop for Curry/Jeffries appeal to MJ and Co.? I'm sure NYK wouldn't mind the $2.5mil in '10 capspace that it frees, and Diaw played well with D'Antoni in the past. For the 'Cats, reuniting Eddy and Tyson could be a good thing, and Jared would replace some of Boris' versatility.

P.S. I can't wait until your coach says in a press conference, "Hi, I'm Larry, this is ma brotha Gerald, and this is ma otha brotha Gerald!" (thsi joke was not meant for anyone under the age of 25)

We made the Chandler-Okafor trade because our FO (including LB) believes this trade will make us a better team now and will also give us flexibility in the future. 2011 is irrelevant at the moment because the goal is to make the playoffs this season.

Now for your trade proposal. Are you serious? The only thing worse than this trade is Eddy Curry's seafood diet. We have a hard enough time trying to sell tickets as is, now you want our fans to have the "privilege" of watching Eddy Curry lumbering up and down the court for 82 games?

Just say NO for buffet busters. We need a monster athlete. Eddy AIN"T THAT. And never will be!

WaydownSouth · Post #7 » by **WaydownSouth** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:28 am

Eddy Curry....... hahaha..... everytime I hear that name I hear this little voice in my head go:

""Look at me, Dave, look" and "Come and touch it, Dave, touch it......"

I then laugh for the next 5 minutes......

oh, no thanks on the trade proposal.......

SWedd523 · Post #8 » by **SWedd523** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:08 pm

August Us Seazr wrote:Just say NO for buffet busters. We need a monster athlete. Eddy AIN"T THAT. And never will be!

We're getting a monster alright. A monster appetite. :lol:

We got rid of the guy pumping the most money into the food industry in Charlotte. We need to replace that or there's going to be a ton of jobless fry cooks

Mezotarkus · Post #9 » by **Mezotarkus** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:07 am

I think the best you'll get from us is Raja Bell for Jared Jeffries+future first rounder. You get ~$6m in 2010 cap space.

Battery · Post #10 » by **Battery** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:28 am

Mezotarkus wrote:I think the best you'll get from us is Raja Bell for Jared Jeffries+future first rounder. You get ~$6m in 2010 cap space.

We need Raja Bell waaaaaaaaay more than Jeffries. Actually, why would we even consider Jeffries? For 6 million dollars, we could buy 2 first round picks next season and it wouldn't cost us against the cap except for the rookie contracts. And we wouldn't have Jeffries, which is a plus.

Post #11 » by **fatlever** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:15 pm

raja has so much value to our club.

1. if we make a playoff run, we need his experience and defense to handle the wings.
2. if we are out of the playoffs by feb, he will be a great trading piece for a team looking for playoff help - expiring contract, veteran, defense.
3. who better to menton hendo than raja?

e4Nf6 · Post #12 » by **e4Nf6** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:30 pm

Why do people around here offer valuable player for nothing but cap relief deals? Those type of things may happen to save the owner some money, but the fans almost never approve of it.

How about Dirk for Nazr and Diop? the Mavs would have some cap space right?

How about Devin Harris for Nazr? again, think of all the cap space.

ecuhus1981 · Post #13 » by **ecuhus1981** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:27 pm

Battery wrote:We have a hard enough time trying to sell tickets as is, now you want our fans to have the "privilege" of watching Eddy Curry lumbering up and down the court for 82 games?

If it makes you feel better, you'd probably only get 50 or so games out of him! :lol:

e4Nf6 wrote:How about Dirk for Nazr and Diop? the Mavs would have some cap space right?

How about Devin Harris for Nazr? again, think of all the cap space.

Ooooooooooooh, was that supposed to hurt me? I get your POV, but you've got to recognize that Curry/Diaw and Nazr/Jared/Desagana are ALOT closer in value to each other than either is to Dirk or Devin. Also, you probably already know that Dirk has an opt-out clause in 2010, that he plans to exercise. You're just being ludicrous to spite me.

We know that from a value perspective, Jeffries > Diop; they offer about the same amount of usefulness for the same price per year, but Jared's contract ends two years sooner. Now, Eddy could be useful to the right team, if someone were desperate enough for low-post scoring to gloss over the other shortcomings. You are certainly entitled to love Boris and detest the very thought of swapping him for Eddy, but from a value perspective, his pricey 3-year deal could be seen as less desirable to a team looking to make a splash in the 2011 FA market. I understand now that Charlotte is not that team.

OK, I think I have a better understanding of CHA fans' perspective on this issue. The only person to which this supposed 2011 plan might apply is Diop (and probably Felton). I knew that Larry had visited Diaw overseas this summer, so I figured the bond there might be too strong to trade him.

Thanks, everyone.

doc.end · Post #14 » by **doc.end** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:29 pm

chrbal wrote:What happened in Larry and Eddys one year together in New York that was so special, that every couple weeks there is some new "Eddy Curry to Charlotte" scenario?

It wasn't even Eddys best Knick season.

If all these scenarios involved Frye, I could understand...but its always Eddy Curry.

I think it is more about that we lost Sean May and need our token Sean May then.

doc.end · Post #15 » by **doc.end** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:30 pm

chrbal wrote:What happened in Larry and Eddys one year together in New York that was so special, that every couple weeks there is some new "Eddy Curry to Charlotte" scenario?

It wasn't even Eddys best Knick season.

If all these scenarios involved Frye, I could understand...but its always Eddy Curry.

I think it is more about that we lost Sean May and need our token Sean May then.

Mezotarkus · Post #16 » by **Mezotarkus** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:57 pm

I am a bit amused by a few of the people here who don't understand the possible reasoning behind a Jeffries+first rounder for Bell trade. All this talk of "if we make a playoff run", etc. is a pipedream at best. This team is structurally flawed and will not make any sort of substantive playoff run. Cogent team development is not always based on putting together the team that can get the most wins today but rather putting together the team that can have a shot at a title. Our team has no chance at a title in its current form. So we need to convert what attributes we have that other teams want (e.g, expiring contracts) to get assets for the future.

A future Knicks first rounder will either be a great asset (if Project Lebron fails) or a decent asset. Does anyone here think Raja Bell is part of the long term Charlotte picture? Does anyone here think we will even resign Raja Bell to any contract after 2010? We have DJ Augustin and Gerald Henderson. Management decided to take Augustin rather than Lopez. Let them play the damn guy for better or for worse.

Even if we get Iverson and resign Felton this team is going to struggle. Chandler is our only decent big guy. He has never played more than 2800 minutes in a season. He averages 8ppg. He failed his physical for another team. Diop and Mohammed had the worst +/- of any of our players. We need to face the facts and start the rebuilding process now so we are not a team that hovers perpetually at 35-40 wins per year hoping for some luck to eek into the first round of the playoffs and make a quick exit.

Battery · Post #17 » by **Battery** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:07 pm

Mezotarkus wrote:I am a bit amused by a few of the people here who don't understand the possible reasoning behind a Jeffries+first rounder for Bell trade. All this talk of "if we make a playoff run", etc. is a pipedream at best. This team is structurally flawed and will not make any sort of substantive playoff run. Cogent team development is not always based on putting together the team that can get the most wins today but rather putting together the team that can have a shot at a title. Our team has no chance at a title in its current form. So we need to convert what attributes we have that other teams want (e.g, expiring contracts) to get assets for the future.

A future Knicks first rounder will either be a great asset (if Project Lebron fails) or a decent asset. Does anyone here think Raja Bell is part of the long term Charlotte picture? Does anyone here think we will even resign Raja Bell to any contract after 2010? We have DJ Augustin and Gerald Henderson. Management decided to take Augustin rather than Lopez. Let them play the damn guy for better or for worse.

Even if we get Iverson and resign Felton this team is going to struggle. Chandler is our only decent big guy. He has never played more than 2800 minutes in a season. He averages 8ppg. He failed his physical for another team. Diop and Mohammed had the worst +/- of any of our players. We need to face the facts and start the rebuilding process now so we are not a team that hovers perpetually at 35-40 wins per year hoping for some luck to eek into the first round of the playoffs and make a quick exit.

I don't think you gave your little trade idea any serious thought.

You want us to trade Raja to the Knicks for Jeffries and a future 1st round pick. Let's first look at the salary situation of both players.

Salaries in 09-10
Jeffries 6,466,600
Raja 5,250,000

Difference of 1,216,600

Salaries in 10-11
Jeffries 6,883,400
Bell 0

Difference of 6,883,400

Add the yearly difference in salary together and you get a total of 8,100,000 which we would have to pay before we get a shot at some unknown college player

Now the draft pick. The Knicks owe their 2010 #1 pick to Utah so that means at the earliest we could get a #1 back would be 2012. The Knicks will be under the cap in 2011 so you know they're going to add a good player or 2 next offseason so the pick probably would be no higher than 15, and most likely would have lottery protection during that 1st year. Could even be worse if the Knicks get Lebron.

Basically we will be on the hook for 8.1 million dollars now for what most likely will be a mid round pick or worse in year 2012 or later. And on top of that, you want us to exchange Bell who is the much better all around player for Jared Jeffries. Throw in the fact that the 2012 pick probably won't be much of a contributor until a few years down the road, that's if he even pans out.

Now don't you think there are better ways we can spend 8.1 million dollars? Couldn't we just buy 2 first round picks for a lot less money in next years draft?