Which Stat Measurement Do You Dislike The Most?

Post #1 » by **BigSlam** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 4:35 am

Just wondering.......

Post #2 » by **Paydro70** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 5:01 am

You'd probably be best off listing Win Shares and Dave Berri's Wins Produced alongside PER and +/-, because the other two aren't really comparable.

Post #3 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 5:02 am

Per 48 is silly.

thruthefire · Post #4 » by **thruthefire** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 5:04 am

Walt Cronkite wrote:Per 48 is silly.

Yeah, but I think per 40 is useful.

Post #5 » by **BigSlam** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 5:04 am

Paydro70 wrote:You'd probably be best off listing Win Shares and Dave Berri's Wins Produced alongside PER and +/-, because the other two aren't really comparable.

Didn't really think about them being comparable, just thinking about them in general.

Post #6 » by **Paydro70** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 5:28 am

I misread the thread at first, thought it was which you like the most. I'd say per 48... I actually think per 36 is the best of that type of stat, most realistic.

Edit: Since "other" is an option, my real answer would be per game. Or maybe FG%.

vorbis · Post #7 » by **vorbis** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 8:37 am

i voted "other."

i hate team rebounds. it doesn't tell me anything at all.

W_HAMILTON · Post #8 » by **W_HAMILTON** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 1:24 pm

Other - Feelometer.

Post #9 » by **BigSlam** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 1:26 pm

W_HAMILTON wrote:Other - Feelometer.

Post #10 » by **fatlever** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 3:40 pm

W_HAMILTON wrote:Other - Feelometer.

I guess that means you wont be pre-ordering a copy of new book "Fatlever's Ultimate NBA Guide to Feel-O-Meter Analysis"

here is an exerpt:

On the drive home from the game i continued my Okafor rant, "Seriously?!?! He really pissed me off. I bet he had 5 turnovers, all of which were passes that hit him in the face. And dont get me started on his missed layups from 2 feet".

[radio] And now the stats of the game - In an amazing win tonight, Emeka Okafor is our player of the game with 25 points, 16 rebounds, 6 blocks on 10 of 12 shooting from the field and only 1 turnover.

"Oh yeah, well, those two missed shots were really costly. I cant wait to send his lazy ass to Memphis or Indiana this summer. And how the hell does Okafor get player of the game? Thats ridiculous. Everyone in that building knows that it was Adam Morrison's halfcourt bomb at the end of the 1st quarter that propelled the team to victory. I can't wait to get home and give Ammo a Gold hammer"

[radio] Rough night for rookie Adam Morrison. He really struggled from the field shooting 1-for-11 before Bernie finally benched him.

"Yeah, but did you see all the times Ammo boxed out his man leaving Okafor to get the freebie rebound? Where is that in the boxscore Mr Radio Announcer? haters!"

[radio - Commercial] Bud presents - Real Men of Genius - Mr Homeless Guy Funny Sign Maker - you make us all laugh with your hilarious ways of asking for money - i'm doing kidney research - here's to you - Mr Homeless Guy Funny Sign Maaaaaaker

"Ha Ha... what a great commercial. I'm hungry. I think i'm gonna stop at Bojangles. I bet Okafor doesnt even like Bojangles. What a loser. "

"Hey, look, is that Adam in the drive thru window? Oh, my bad, its just some punk high school kid." "GET A HAIRCUT HIPPIE!!!"

dmutombo321 · Post #11 » by **dmutombo321** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 4:53 pm

^ I'm pulling out my Amazon Visa right now fats

Mezotarkus · Post #12 » by **Mezotarkus** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 11:05 pm

+/- is a useless stat as it is currently measured because it ignores the other players on the floor - both on the player's team and on the opposing team.

thruthefire · Post #13 » by **thruthefire** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 11:15 pm

^True, but an adjusted +/- takes those factors into account. Substitute per 48 with per 40 (or 36) and add "adjusted" in front of +/-, and I think, in addition to TS% and PER, those are great stats.

Post #14 » by **Paydro70** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 11:35 pm

Fats for HOF.

+/- is pretty easy to misuse in its raw form, but it's also the "purest" stat in a sense... it misses nothing, it is a complete summary of how well the team plays with a player on the court or off.

Mezotarkus · Post #15 » by **Mezotarkus** » Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:00 am

thruthefire wrote:^True, but an adjusted +/- takes those factors into account. Substitute per 48 with per 40 (or 36) and add "adjusted" in front of +/-, and I think, in addition to TS% and PER, those are great stats.

The way adjusted +/- is calculated is flawed also - at least in the proposals I have seen. In effect, adjusted +/- should involved a gigantic simultaneous equation problem consisting of an equation for every player with terms in each equation for every player. This is not the way its done currently.

chrbal · Post #16 » by **chrbal** » Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:18 am

Per 48 far and away. My all time favorite example is Ratko Varda. Go here ( http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ratko_varda/index.html ) just to look at his NBA.com picture.

His per 48 minute stats: He would average 40 points, 8 rebounds, and 24 personal fouls a game.

Rich4114 · Post #17 » by **Rich4114** » Wed Feb 3, 2010 3:31 am

dmutombo321 wrote:^ I'm pulling out my Amazon Visa right now fats

The sick part is I would actually pay money to read this

Post #18 » by **fatlever** » Wed Feb 3, 2010 3:57 pm

i do like the +/- in the context of the daily boxscores. it helps paint a picture of what happened in the game for those that didnt see it. its fun to see who was on the floor when the major runs happened. in the context of individual evaluations, obviously its leaves a lot to be desired.