Lux tax avoiding trade

[Trueblood]

I was thinking that a good deal to make over the offseason would be for the Bobcats to deal Chandler to Sacramento for Andres Nocioni. The reasoning is simple...

1) Obviously, the Cats need to cut payroll. This lops off 6 million from the payroll which would enable them to resign both Felton and Thomas.

2) Makes bball sense as we are 4 deep at C and don't have a true backup at SF as Brown is a combo forward.

3) Makes sense for the Kings as their roster is the reverse. 2 deep at SF with Greene and Casspi so there's no room for Nocioni while they have no centers after Hawes. This deal would balance out their roster.

4) They only have $31 million committed in salary before they make their draft pick so they will need to add payroll just to get to the minimum level salary payroll. This tradxe accomplishes that. Added incentice is that Chandler is an expiring deal andx they get out of Nocioni's deal which has an extra year or 2.

[BigSlam]

God I hate Nocioni!

I get the jist of your proposal - and it does make sense, but I think that TC has proven since coming back that he can contribute in a very important way so I wouldn't make this trade.

Besides, as an expiring contract and someone who is still contributing I think that he would have more value.

[fatlever]

they have hawes and brockman (who i assume they will keep). thompson can also fill in at center when needed. i doubt they would bite.

[Fred Williamson]

Chandler has a big ass expiring contract worth 12 million dollars in 2011, while Nocioni still has 3 (!!) years left. WHo knows, maybe we will be able to trade his expiring for a missing piece that can make us an elite team.

But you can have Diop in exchange for Nocioni. otherwise, no thanks.

[Trueblood]

God I hate Nocioni!

I get the jist of your proposal - and it does make sense, but I think that TC has proven since coming back that he can contribute in a very important way so I wouldn't make this trade.

Besides, as an expiring contract and someone who is still contributing I think that he would have more value.

Maybe Mohammed for a future 2nd rounder instead? Similar cut in payroll without taking on a joker like Nocioni.

[BigSlam]

Maybe Mohammed for a future 2nd rounder instead? Similar cut in payroll without taking on a joker like Nocioni.

I like that idea better, although I like that Nazzy is our "offensive" center. He has that mid range J and can score with hooks in close. Having him on the roster is a nice balance to what Theo and TC bring.

In saying that, maybe Lexy can come along to close out this season and over the summer and can fill that offensive big man void if we moved Nazzy?

That being the case, love your work Nazzy, but pack your bags son!

But who would want to absorb Nazzy's contract? Who has the cap room to be able to?

[Dexmor]

So you guys are really convienced MJ won't go over the luxary just for 1 year to resign Hughes-Felton-Thomas?
I mean the Bobcats have just gotten to the point were they are a really good team. Losing a future main piece of your core would make them alot worse. Michael knows for this to work he has to put a winning team on the floor to get the fans back and to stay a playoff team. With this team having a full training camp together (remember all new in season players are Jackson-Tyrus-Hughes-Theo-Tyson.
Plus the following year he will have a nice 20 million coming off the books.
I know he said he won't go into the luxary because they aren't contenders but they could be with the insane depth and the fact that they have about 10 players who could start easy on the team. With a full camp they could come out the Eastern Conference's 3rd best next year with the C's falling and the Hawks losing Joe Johnson.
Right now the payroll is at 68,000,000.
Now is not the time to cut costs and cut talent and expect to get investors and fans.

[spectre_]

Nazr for the 2nd...done deal. Not excited at all about the TC for Noc swap; after all's said and done we'd be better off financially just paying the tax for one season vs doing that one.

Jordan said the Bobcats wouldn't go over the tax when Bob Johnson was the majority owner, but I think he'd need a VERY good reason to go over regardless.

They knew the salary situation when they traded for TT and they knew it when they offered Felton a deal last summer. They'd look like total idiots if they let TT walk and I see no way they let Felton walk with the idea that DJ will start with a vet min backup so long as LB is here...unless o'course someone offers him stupid money which I don't think they will.

Even if Felton did leave for stupid money I'd bet we burn our full MLE to get LB a veteran PG starter.

IMO they'll go into the season as a tax team and look to reduce/eliminate the hit before the deadline (last game).

[Trueblood]

Maybe Mohammed for a future 2nd rounder instead? Similar cut in payroll without taking on a joker like Nocioni.

I like that idea better, although I like that Nazzy is our "offensive" center. He has that mid range J and can score with hooks in close. Having him on the roster is a nice balance to what Theo and TC bring.

In saying that, maybe Lexy can come along to close out this season and over the summer and can fill that offensive big man void if we moved Nazzy?

That being the case, love your work Nazzy, but pack your bags son!

But who would want to absorb Nazzy's contract? Who has the cap room to be able to?

That would still be Sacramento. Still need a center upgrade and even after absorbing his deal, they would still have over $10 million in cap space.

[BigSlam]

Dex I think it will all depend on how the team closes out the season and if they make the playoffs, how they perform in the playoffs and if the local people and businesses embrace the team.

If all of those things happen MJ "might" dip into the LT, but it's really hard to say.

[spectre_]

I still think in the end we give up an asset (looking at you Hendo) to dump a deal and get below the LT before the next trade deadline. I don't see Jordan letting anyone just walk.

[BigSlam]

Maybe Mohammed for a future 2nd rounder instead? Similar cut in payroll without taking on a joker like Nocioni.

I like that idea better, although I like that Nazzy is our "offensive" center. He has that mid range J and can score with hooks in close. Having him on the roster is a nice balance to what Theo and TC bring.

In saying that, maybe Lexy can come along to close out this season and over the summer and can fill that offensive big man void if we moved Nazzy?

That being the case, love your work Nazzy, but pack your bags son!

But who would want to absorb Nazzy's contract? Who has the cap room to be able to?

That would still be Sacramento. Still need a center upgrade and even after absorbing his deal, they would still have over $10 million in cap space.

Gotcha.

If they were down, I would do it in a nano second.

[Trueblood]

So you guys are really convienced MJ won't go over the luxary just for 1 year to resign Hughes-Felton-Thomas?
I mean the Bobcats have just gotten to the point were they are a really good team. Losing a future main piece of your core would make them alot worse. Michael knows for this to work he has to put a winning team on the floor to get the fans back and to stay a playoff team. With this team having a full training camp together (remember all new in season players are Jackson-Tyrus-Hughes-Theo-Tyson.
Plus the following year he will have a nice 20 million coming off the books.
I know he said he won't go into the luxary because they aren't contenders but they could be with the insane depth and the fact that they have about 10 players who could start easy on the team. With a full camp they could come out the Eastern Conference's 3rd best next year with the C's falling and the Hawks losing Joe Johnson.
Right now the payroll is at 68,000,000.
Now is not the time to cut costs and cut talent and expect to get investors and fans.

I actually agree with all of this. My trade ideas are under a worst case assumption where Jordan says that he won't pay the tax. In that scenario, losing Chandler or Nazzy beats losing Felton and TT.

But if he says that he'll pay the tax for one year then I say that no trade needs to be done as I like where we stand.

[BigSlam]

I still think in the end we give up an asset (looking at you Hendo) to dump a deal and get below the LT before the next trade deadline. I don't see Jordan letting anyone just walk.

Agreed.

Spend some money (waste that Hendo draft pick) to make some money (retain Felts and T2).

[Dexmor]

I was thinking trading Nazr's contract for a 2nd rounder to but again that could prove to be tricky.
I was even thinking about packaging Henderson-Brown-Alexa with Diop's contract to a team under the cap to get them to bite. We don't need Brown or Hendo now with Hughes and Graham.

The way I see MJ has a few options

1.Best option sign all the free agents we have and be contenders next year and just pay the tax one year, he has the money, don't be cheap put a winner out there.

2.He could try and make some kind of T.J. Ford trade that he tried to do before let Felton walk and buy a late pick and draft a pg or sign a backup pg for cheap like an Earl Watson and have Hughes be the backup wing and third pg LB likes.

3.Hand the reigns over to D.J. officially-have Hughes play that same role as backup sg who can spot minutes at the 1 and sign a cheap but good backup pg for D.J. like a Ridnour or Earl Watson or Kyle Lowry or Chris Duhon although that guy just can't seem to shoot to save his life.

4.Like #1 Resign all your good assets as in Ray-Ty-Hughes and try like hell to get another team under the cap to take a team to take on Tyson or Nazr's deal or throw in Hendersons and Brown to make somebody take Diop. I bet Sac might think about taking Diop-Henderson-Brown for a 2nd round pick.

5th option-Buy or trade for a draft pick. It's possible we get Reynolds in the 2nd round who is a first round talent in my eyes and that would pretty much solve everything with D.J. Reynolds and Hughes as the third but if not maybe trade Henderson or buy a first rounder and get
1.Kalin Lucas
2.Sherron Collins
3.Willie Warren-He could slip with injury
4.Jones
5.Johnson
6.White
7.Reynolds

Those are guys that could be sold or traded for maybe for only Lexi or a future 2nd rounder at least most Brown or Henderson but with Hughes there Hendo and Brown become a little more expendable.

D.J. could thrive in the starting position as he seems to be a confidence rythem player not suited for spot bench minutes anyway.
Plus with all the pg steals last year I don't mind taking a chance even if it ends up being a bust and we need to call up a Dleaguer to back up D.J. (Mustafa aint bad) Jackson-Hughes-Diaw can all be the point on the court so when D.J. sits it won't be that much of a problem.

[Stun704]

Nazr, for a 2nd rounder is garbage, unless we are just trying to shed salary, isn't he coming off the books next season too? we can get better then a 2nd round pick for him, when our drafting has been garbage as well, that would be a bad trade... Nazr for a 2nd round rookie that would never see the floor under Larry Brown

[Trueblood]

Nazr, for a 2nd rounder is garbage, unless we are just trying to shed salary, isn't he coming off the books next season too? we can get better then a 2nd round pick for him, when our drafting has been garbage as well, that would be a bad trade... Nazr for a 2nd round rookie that would never see the floor under Larry Brown

On paper, we're assuming a worst case scenario where Jordan says that he doesn't want to spend the lux tax so yeah, it's a salary shedding move as it beats losing TT and Felton for nothing.

Touching on what Dexmor is saying, I definitely think they need to do their homework on the draft picks this year. This would be the perfect time to make up for all those bad picks that the Cats have made in the past. Like alwyas, there will be teams picking in the firsdt round who swing and miss and the 2nd round will be full of steals provided the FO does their homework and targets the right guys at the right positions. That would make things easier to deal with since I know there will be a lot of complaining due to the lack of free agent movement this summer for the Bobcats since there is no money to spend.

Think about it. Manu, Boozer, Arenas, Okur, Jerebko and a host of other stars have been stolen in the 2nd round. Monta Ellis as well. Somebody will be there.

[Rich4114]

if we sign Felton to a long term deal, consider DJ a goner. They will ship him off for a pick or something and try to use a vet PG as a backup.

[spectre_]

if we sign Felton to a long term deal, consider DJ a goner. They will ship him off for a pick or something and try to use a vet PG as a backup.

I don't agree with that at all. LB wants depth at PG and we won't have any money to spend. We won't be spending the MLE nor do we have the LLE. Felton/DJ/vet min will most likely be our best option. DJ also brings us scoring...and as some would quickly point out you don't need to be getting rid of offense when we're continually ranked at the bottom.

Nazr/Hendo for a 2nd at the trade deadline. They'd would be owed what, about 2-4 million left? Doesn't sound like much, but other teams will be pointing at that 2-4 million plus 4-5 million we'd get by being back in group which splits the tax money. Bulls had to swap picks plus a couple 2nds just to get rid of Salmons for expirings.

at the thought of DJ & a 2nd round pick rookie being LB's PG rotation.

You guys have to remember who's running the team here.

[moevil]

Do be honest, I see us shedding some salary.

We definately keep TT. Felton is the more mystical.
He has been worse defender than before, but his shooting is somewhat bit up. That's a plus.

I hope we can pick up some bigger defensive guard, who can pass and knock down treys, while he is wide open. DJ is kinda offensive weapon we are having here.

As LB did want to trade DJ and Nazr for TJ Ford, that means he believes Felton is a goner. I believe he is, unfortunately. But no way DJ is a starter, so we need to look for another starter PG.