NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (part 4 - The Final MVP Countdown!)

[Sharkboy242]

Its over Jokic stans

Its the year of Emvpiid.

[ken6199]

I don't care who wins, just for entertainment value based on what I see in this thread, I wish Embiid wins for this enthusiastic dude.


I know first hand what it feels like to support a villain. I have no fuss on everyone hating him, yep plenty to hate about, but to me it's a big deal to understate his strength (blah blah blah he stat pads, it's all usage, ball monopoly) just based on your dislikes yet magnify his weakness. Not players are perfect, yet some are treated unfairly with people self-confused with their personal emotion and basketball facts.

Same with Embiid, dude has been one of the most unpopular superstars on this board treated the same like those other villains he goes up against who "play the game the right way", who "can do no wrong", who "you dare to say something bad about them the entire board will pile on you".

Stick one up in their asses, Embiid. **** that hateful ****.

[eyeatoma]

I don't care who wins, just for entertainment value based on what I see in this thread, I wish Embiid wins for this enthusiastic dude.


I know first hand what it feels like to support a villain. I have no fuss on everyone hating him, yep plenty to hate about, but to me it's a big deal to understate his strength (blah blah blah he stat pads, it's all usage, ball monopoly) just based on your dislikes yet magnify his weakness. Not players are perfect, yet some are treated unfairly with people self-confused with their personal emotion and basketball facts.

Same with Embiid, dude has been one of the most unpopular superstars on this board treated the same like those other villains he goes up against who "play the game the right way", who "can do no wrong", who "you dare to say something bad about them the entire board will pile on you".

Stick one up in their asses, Embiid. **** that hateful ****.

LMAO!

[CobraCommander]

I don't care who wins, just for entertainment value based on what I see in this thread, I wish Embiid wins for this enthusiastic dude.


I know first hand what it feels like to support a villain. I have no fuss on everyone hating him, yep plenty to hate about, but to me it's a big deal to understate his strength (blah blah blah he stat pads, it's all usage, ball monopoly) just based on your dislikes yet magnify his weakness. Not players are perfect, yet some are treated unfairly with people self-confused with their personal emotion and basketball facts.

Same with Embiid, dude has been one of the most unpopular superstars on this board treated the same like those other villains he goes up against who "play the game the right way", who "can do no wrong", who "you dare to say something bad about them the entire board will pile on you".

Stick one up in their asses, Embiid. **** that hateful ****.

LMAO!

Embiid has a lobbying team that big pharma and the industrial military complex would be proud of !

[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

[Papi_swav]

yea it's Embiid at this point

[eyeatoma]

LMAO, these tweets!

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Really quiet in here, kind of amusing. The moment the advanced stats champ stopped getting them wins, all I hear are crickets....

Don’t you get tired of antagonizing?

This is eyeatoma we're talking about here!

[Dutchball97]

I still think Jokic should still win MVP and I'm not sure Embiid has enough time to change my mind even if it's been getting closer recently.

That said I also voted that Embiid will win the award. I don't think he deserves to win the award as it stands now. However, the media is foaming at the mouth to vote for anyone not named Jokic so I guess they'll hand it to Embiid with the recent narrative going haywire.

For context before I get hate for this:
EPM: Jokic +7.9 (1st) vs Embiid +7.4 (2nd)
LEBRON: Jokic +8.35 (1st) vs Embiid +5.1 (4th)
RAPTOR: Jokic +14.2 (1st) vs Embiid +8.1 (3rd)
RAPM: Jokic +4.01 (1st) vs Embiid +2.38 (19th)
BPM: Jokic +12.9 (1st) vs Embiid +9.1 (3rd)
WS/48: Jokic .309 (1st) vs Embiid .264 (3rd)
PER: Jokic 31.5 (2nd) vs Embiid 31.7 (1st)

You can ignore the purpose of MVP as regular season award and project the play-offs for some reason and speculate Embiid will do better despite that never being the case in any of the previous post-seasons, you can suddenly care about record again now the 76ers are in front again even if you ignored that the rest of the season (not seeding though, that doesn't count unless the 76ers get a better seed than the Nuggets because then it's super important again), you can get into semantics how nobody should ever get a 3rd MVP because some journalists got very tired sometime in the 90s but there is no real statistical case to be made to pick Embiid over Jokic this season (unless of course you have no idea what these stats mean and suddenly become the biggest PER supporter we've seen on this planet).

[_NoMas]

As someone who’s had Jokic first for most of the year, at this point I’d vote Embiid. There’s no doubt Jokic has dropped off and Embiid is just unstoppable at the minute, and his supporting cast is showing up too.

I hope he wins too, I think it would be a better reflection of the last 3 years between the two elite centres than if Jokic had won all 3.

That said, Giannis is still the best in the world imo

[rim213221]

Jokic is a great player but he’s now been surpassed by Embiid in PER even. We’re starting to see that Jokic might not be as good as his advanced analytics suggested he was.

As always there was a legitimate debate as to who was better between Embiid and Jokic and it’s even clearer now as Embiid has in all likelihood snatched the MVP in the last 20% of the season, which seemed like an impossibility few weeks ago.

[Bum Adebayo]

I still think Jokic should still win MVP and I'm not sure Embiid has enough time to change my mind even if it's been getting closer recently.

That said I also voted that Embiid will win the award. I don't think he deserves to win the award as it stands now. However, the media is foaming at the mouth to vote for anyone not named Jokic so I guess they'll hand it to Embiid with the recent narrative going haywire.

For context before I get hate for this:
EPM: Jokic +7.9 (1st) vs Embiid +7.4 (2nd)
LEBRON: Jokic +8.35 (1st) vs Embiid +5.1 (4th)
RAPTOR: Jokic +14.2 (1st) vs Embiid +8.1 (3rd)
RAPM: Jokic +4.01 (1st) vs Embiid +2.38 (19th)
BPM: Jokic +12.9 (1st) vs Embiid +9.1 (3rd)
WS/48: Jokic .309 (1st) vs Embiid .264 (3rd)
PER: Jokic 31.5 (2nd) vs Embiid 31.7 (1st)

You can ignore the purpose of MVP as regular season award and project the play-offs for some reason and speculate Embiid will do better despite that never being the case in any of the previous post-seasons, you can suddenly care about record again now the 76ers are in front again even if you ignored that the rest of the season (not seeding though, that doesn't count unless the 76ers get a better seed than the Nuggets because then it's super important again), you can get into semantics how nobody should ever get a 3rd MVP because some journalists got very tired sometime in the 90s but there is no real statistical case to be made to pick Embiid over Jokic this season (unless of course you have no idea what these stats mean and suddenly become the biggest PER supporter we've seen on this planet).

There is also ESPN RPM which paints Embiid as the best player this season. But yeah all other advanced stats show Jokic more love.

[Dutchball97]

I still think Jokic should still win MVP and I'm not sure Embiid has enough time to change my mind even if it's been getting closer recently.

That said I also voted that Embiid will win the award. I don't think he deserves to win the award as it stands now. However, the media is foaming at the mouth to vote for anyone not named Jokic so I guess they'll hand it to Embiid with the recent narrative going haywire.

For context before I get hate for this:
EPM: Jokic +7.9 (1st) vs Embiid +7.4 (2nd)
LEBRON: Jokic +8.35 (1st) vs Embiid +5.1 (4th)
RAPTOR: Jokic +14.2 (1st) vs Embiid +8.1 (3rd)
RAPM: Jokic +4.01 (1st) vs Embiid +2.38 (19th)
BPM: Jokic +12.9 (1st) vs Embiid +9.1 (3rd)
WS/48: Jokic .309 (1st) vs Embiid .264 (3rd)
PER: Jokic 31.5 (2nd) vs Embiid 31.7 (1st)

You can ignore the purpose of MVP as regular season award and project the play-offs for some reason and speculate Embiid will do better despite that never being the case in any of the previous post-seasons, you can suddenly care about record again now the 76ers are in front again even if you ignored that the rest of the season (not seeding though, that doesn't count unless the 76ers get a better seed than the Nuggets because then it's super important again), you can get into semantics how nobody should ever get a 3rd MVP because some journalists got very tired sometime in the 90s but there is no real statistical case to be made to pick Embiid over Jokic this season (unless of course you have no idea what these stats mean and suddenly become the biggest PER supporter we've seen on this planet).

There is also ESPN RPM which paints Embiid as the best player this season. But yeah all other advanced stats show Jokic more love.

I don't think anyone really uses RPM anymore since they changed the formula but since I've posted other stats that are pretty obsolote for this era like PER and WS/48 as well it's fair to bring it up. I'm not sure if RPM at this point is more or less accurate than those 2.

EPM and LEBRON are for now the very best metrics we have with no glaring faults, they're not infallible but if you're doing well in these stats that's the most valuable signal there is for the current season. RAPTOR and BPM are good for offense but really struggle to measure the defensive side correctly. RAPM is the "purest" form of impact but it's also the least viable to be used as an actual ranking because team performance is so heavily taken into account. PER and WS/48 are generally only useful for older eras were better, more accurate stats aren't available. Every stat can have some use as long as it is understood what the stat in question is trying to measure and what it's good or bad at.

[eyeatoma]

I still think Jokic should still win MVP and I'm not sure Embiid has enough time to change my mind even if it's been getting closer recently.

That said I also voted that Embiid will win the award. I don't think he deserves to win the award as it stands now. However, the media is foaming at the mouth to vote for anyone not named Jokic so I guess they'll hand it to Embiid with the recent narrative going haywire.

For context before I get hate for this:
EPM: Jokic +7.9 (1st) vs Embiid +7.4 (2nd)
LEBRON: Jokic +8.35 (1st) vs Embiid +5.1 (4th)
RAPTOR: Jokic +14.2 (1st) vs Embiid +8.1 (3rd)
RAPM: Jokic +4.01 (1st) vs Embiid +2.38 (19th)
BPM: Jokic +12.9 (1st) vs Embiid +9.1 (3rd)
WS/48: Jokic .309 (1st) vs Embiid .264 (3rd)
PER: Jokic 31.5 (2nd) vs Embiid 31.7 (1st)

You can ignore the purpose of MVP as regular season award and project the play-offs for some reason and speculate Embiid will do better despite that never being the case in any of the previous post-seasons, you can suddenly care about record again now the 76ers are in front again even if you ignored that the rest of the season (not seeding though, that doesn't count unless the 76ers get a better seed than the Nuggets because then it's super important again), you can get into semantics how nobody should ever get a 3rd MVP because some journalists got very tired sometime in the 90s but there is no real statistical case to be made to pick Embiid over Jokic this season (unless of course you have no idea what these stats mean and suddenly become the biggest PER supporter we've seen on this planet).

You could also surmise that if basically every avanced stat in the book has Jokic at #1, despite his clear defensive issues, there is a problem with advanced stats themselves. As mentioned before, Jokic's game and the way advanced stats value rebounds, and assist from a big man, over value Jokic's production. He is not this much better than his competition.

[Exp0sed]

Really quiet in here, kind of amusing. The moment the advanced stats champ stopped getting them wins, all I hear are crickets....

You're the one whose been quiet as a mouse every time Embiid faltered

From what i've seen most of the posters who were advocating for Jokic throughout the season (myself included), have achknowledged during and after those 4 losses, that he isn't in front anymore

No need to repeat that, unless something material changes, no?

Sent from my SM-A115F using RealGM mobile app

[nikster]

As someone who’s had Jokic first for most of the year, at this point I’d vote Embiid. There’s no doubt Jokic has dropped off and Embiid is just unstoppable at the minute, and his supporting cast is showing up too.

I hope he wins too, I think it would be a better reflection of the last 3 years between the two elite centres than if Jokic had won all 3.

That said, Giannis is still the best in the world imo

Embiids been on a tear and this losing streak definetly hurts Jokic odds. I feel like if this happened earlier in the season wouldn't have been as big a deal. I'm still happy with either winning, they've been incredible this season

Think Jokics individual "drop off" has been exaggerated tho. 29/12/9 on 68 TS% during this stretch.

[Cubbies2120]

As someone who’s had Jokic first for most of the year, at this point I’d vote Embiid. There’s no doubt Jokic has dropped off and Embiid is just unstoppable at the minute, and his supporting cast is showing up too.

I hope he wins too, I think it would be a better reflection of the last 3 years between the two elite centres than if Jokic had won all 3.

That said, Giannis is still the best in the world imo

Embiids been on a tear and this losing streak definetly hurts Jokic odds. I feel like if this happened earlier in the season wouldn't have been as big a deal. I'm still happy with either winning, they've been incredible this season

Think Jokics individual "drop off" has been exaggerated tho. 29/12/9 on 68 TS% during this stretch.

Yeah, Jokic's play during this stretch is top 3 in the league (29/12/9), not sure I'd call that much of a drop off.

The Nuggets as a TEAM have dropped off significantly - they're in danger of losing the #1 seed given the stretch coming up.

[bebopdeluxe]

I don't care who wins, just for entertainment value based on what I see in this thread, I wish Embiid wins for this enthusiastic dude.


I know first hand what it feels like to support a villain. I have no fuss on everyone hating him, yep plenty to hate about, but to me it's a big deal to understate his strength (blah blah blah he stat pads, it's all usage, ball monopoly) just based on your dislikes yet magnify his weakness. Not players are perfect, yet some are treated unfairly with people self-confused with their personal emotion and basketball facts.

Same with Embiid, dude has been one of the most unpopular superstars on this board treated the same like those other villains he goes up against who "play the game the right way", who "can do no wrong", who "you dare to say something bad about them the entire board will pile on you".

Stick one up in their asses, Embiid. **** that hateful ****.

LMAO!

Embiid has a lobbying team that big pharma and the industrial military complex would be proud of !

If you consider Eyeatoma and me Embiid's "lobbying team", how would you characterize the army of Jokic stans on the GB?

(this should be good)

[Cubbies2120]

March 25:
Jokic vs. Embiid

March 27:
Jokic vs. Giannis

April 1:
Embiid vs. Giannis

Those 3 games might decide the MVP award. IMO if Jokic loses the Embiid match, that kills his MVP chances.

[Billy Goat]

Sabonis has entered the chat