Shams: Damian Lillard Has Requested a Trade to the Miami Heat; Blazers Say They Will Sell to the Highest Bidder

[DusterBuster]

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[DeBlazerRiddem]

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I wish it was even half as funny or creative as those guys.

[DusterBuster]

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I wish it was even half as funny or creative as those guys.

Speak for yourself!

[celticfan42487]

Because legit every player from every team went off on the Celtics.

James Harden had two extremely clutch 40 piece efficient games against that Celtics defense.

The defense was trash.

Guys who didn't play for the Heat all season went off one after another. Trae Young without Murray was an efficiency monster and almost took the Celtics to 7 against that defense.

And because I'm thinking in opportunity cost.

Caleb Martin is a good bench piece maybe a starter. Dame is a solid 2nd star on a championship team.

You can find Caleb Martins for free via ring chasers post trade. Same with Duncan Robinsons.

And you'll find far better than the trash you'll get with late round picks.

The only thing of value in the trade might be a pick years into the future but that's not guaranteed because it's one of the 3 states players like in FL, NY, CA so they'll get superstars for free. And the other thing is Herro which the Blazers will want flipped for a meaningless mid round first who is most likely going to end up to be nothing because 80% of the time those guys are nothing in the NBA.

But yeah, everyone went off on the Celtics in the playoffs over and over and over and over again. From the Hawks to the 76ers to the Heat. Defense was trash, drop coverage big defense is trash. But it's what we got now with Joe and ancient Al Horford and now KP so... oh well.

At least Joel Chokbiid will still Choke so we get to get free wins against him if we can luck into facing the 76ers. Other than that we have to just hope we hit more 3s than the other team. (maybe next year will be different who knows but that was what the Celtics in last year's playoffs were. Chuck from 3, be as dumb as possible at least 4 times a game, and pray)

Not going to argue that your defense was suspect the entire run, but calling Trae an efficiency monster based off 1 game where he went off is ridiculous. For the series he averaged 29.2pts but on a putrid 52.1% (40% FG & 33% 3pt).

Harden did have two amazing games but he struggled overall and likewise with Embiid. The big guns both played far below their regular season standards and the defense showed up in the final 2 games holding Philly to 86 and 88. Your defense held them to a combined 24ps in the close out game on 8/29 shooting.

In the series in question vs Miami both Jimmy and Bam had subpar offensive series. Downplaying Caleb's contribution in that series is just ignorant. He was their best player in that series and was hyper efficient while playing lock-down defense against your two stars. When you consider that you guys played Love off the floor, his ability to step into the starting line-up and do it a little bit of everything including isolation scoring was crucial in Miami pulling off the upset. His numbers were ridiculous the entire series but in the wins it was even better.

I am not saying that Miami should make Caleb untouchable, I'm just saying that if they can negotiate a deal to keep him on the roster its going to help the tremendously THIS season. I mean it makes it even more crucial considering that he is on a bargain bin contract of 6.8m this year and 7.1m next for a team that will be close to the second apron paying 3 max contracts. The guy is a fringe starter and at times depending on matchup will step in n place of Love like he did against your Celtics.

In regards to finding other ring chasers to replace Caleb and Duncan, in the long run yes that is correct. There may be guys willing to sacrifice and play with the trio, but we are so late in free agency now that there aren't any/man good ones left. Duncan is a different story than Caleb. Nobody is going to lose sleep over him and his bloated contract even if his 3pt shot efficiency has returned.

That was a lot of words for in the end just to say we agree that Caleb is a fringe stater good bench player.

And yes of course if the Heat can trade even less for Dame that makes them better.

But my argument was always due to opportunity cost that someone on that level shouldn't matter in a trade for Dame because you can always get guys like that for free when you'll be the only other superteam besides the Suns in the league.

The main difference is unlike the Suns the Heat will have 3 stars we know that will compliment each other, so 3 and D vets that can do what Caleb does but happen to be 30 will rush at the chance to play there for very little money to finish their careers with a ring or 2. Provided they don't get a spot with the Suns lol.

If I'm a 3 and D player who is 30ish and basically as good as Caleb Martin is today picking between the Suns and the Heat and looking at how everyone syncs up I'd pick the Heat just because I know Jimmy and Bam will get me a lot of wide open 3s and everyone will compliment each other. And that Jimmy and Dame are known playoff killers. Whereas Durant has shrank in the playoffs the past 2 seasons straight so there's some concerns there about his mentality, as well as you don't quite know those 3 will make the sum of their parts of their team better like you do know Dame and Butler will. (as well as Bam they all are excellent playmakers at their positions).

[jkvonny]

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?s=20 It’s the final showdown will the blazers trade lillard , will heat get their man ?? Find out next time on twitter !

Correct.
Time is ticking.

[AirP.]

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?s=20 It’s the final showdown will the blazers trade lillard , will heat get their man ?? Find out next time on twitter !

Correct.
Time is ticking.

I get it would be a good move for Miami to get Lillard who probably has the same small window as Butler but I'm fine with him staying in Portland. If he were to play well, he just might stunt the growth of some of the younger guys and make Portland just good enough to let their 1st round pick (which I would expect a top 5 pick next year without Lillard) go to Chicago (since it's top 14 protected) and I highly doubt Lillard will be ok with sitting/losing to help the franchise anymore. To me that would be a huge setback in their rebuild. I do agree with Portland rebuilding, they got lucky to be high enough to get Scoot, but it sure seems bad to not be trying to accommodate Lillard or at least try to make it seem that way.

For Miami it's a sizable setback but currently their roster is better now than it was at the beginning of last season and will have assets to try to make moves if they need to. Miami should have leaned in for Beal, it would have been much cheaper in assets and would have satisfied that need of a proven vet scorer to go with Butler and Bam.

It's just a bad situation for Portland and Lillard, they got lucky to get a good enough pick to get Scoot who will be Lillard's replacement rather than just a high enough draft asset to help try to acquire help for Lillard (Scoot was too good to pass up).

[phanman]

That was a lot of words for in the end just to say we agree that Caleb is a fringe stater good bench player.

And yes of course if the Heat can trade even less for Dame that makes them better.

But my argument was always due to opportunity cost that someone on that level shouldn't matter in a trade for Dame because you can always get guys like that for free when you'll be the only other superteam besides the Suns in the league.

The main difference is unlike the Suns the Heat will have 3 stars we know that will compliment each other, so 3 and D vets that can do what Caleb does but happen to be 30 will rush at the chance to play there for very little money to finish their careers with a ring or 2. Provided they don't get a spot with the Suns lol.

If I'm a 3 and D player who is 30ish and basically as good as Caleb Martin is today picking between the Suns and the Heat and looking at how everyone syncs up I'd pick the Heat just because I know Jimmy and Bam will get me a lot of wide open 3s and everyone will compliment each other. And that Jimmy and Dame are known playoff killers. Whereas Durant has shrank in the playoffs the past 2 seasons straight so there's some concerns there about his mentality, as well as you don't quite know those 3 will make the sum of their parts of their team better like you do know Dame and Butler will. (as well as Bam they all are excellent playmakers at their positions).

Caleb has the potential to be a starter next season, the only reason why I labeled him fringe is because Spolestra likes starting Love and giving him the majority of his playing time with the starters. You continue to minimize his impact on the contract that he is signed to and how much of a benefit it will be for Miami when they are stuck paying 3 max contracts + Lowry or Duncan. That is the entire salary cap on just 4 players, you need rotation players to fill out the roster and that is where the importance of keeping Caleb comes into play

You keep stating that they can always find these guys for free but fail to realize the few quality guys that fit the bill are already signed to the contenders. The free agent market currently is slim pickings and Miami and Phoenix aren't the only choices out there (hello Denver!). 3&D wings aren't available for the minimum man. There is a reason why guys sign for the vet min.

Where I agree with you is if Portland demands Caleb or else than yes you make that deal. That request should allow Miami to keep JJJ in that case then. In essence, you negotiate to keep your assets, the majority of the post was to debunk your initial statement asking why they would care about losing Caleb so much.

[Heat_team02]

The Miami Heat roster is set. Their 2 2-way players are Point Guards who will give Lowry rest throughout the season & Herro & Josh Richardson will play some PG. They also have 1 roster spot left open like they do every season.


https://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/_/name/mia/miami-heat

[DusterBuster]

That was a lot of words for in the end just to say we agree that Caleb is a fringe stater good bench player.

And yes of course if the Heat can trade even less for Dame that makes them better.

But my argument was always due to opportunity cost that someone on that level shouldn't matter in a trade for Dame because you can always get guys like that for free when you'll be the only other superteam besides the Suns in the league.

The main difference is unlike the Suns the Heat will have 3 stars we know that will compliment each other, so 3 and D vets that can do what Caleb does but happen to be 30 will rush at the chance to play there for very little money to finish their careers with a ring or 2. Provided they don't get a spot with the Suns lol.

If I'm a 3 and D player who is 30ish and basically as good as Caleb Martin is today picking between the Suns and the Heat and looking at how everyone syncs up I'd pick the Heat just because I know Jimmy and Bam will get me a lot of wide open 3s and everyone will compliment each other. And that Jimmy and Dame are known playoff killers. Whereas Durant has shrank in the playoffs the past 2 seasons straight so there's some concerns there about his mentality, as well as you don't quite know those 3 will make the sum of their parts of their team better like you do know Dame and Butler will. (as well as Bam they all are excellent playmakers at their positions).

Caleb has the potential to be a starter next season, the only reason why I labeled him fringe is because Spolestra likes starting Love and giving him the majority of his playing time with the starters. You continue to minimize his impact on the contract that he is signed to and how much of a benefit it will be for Miami when they are stuck paying 3 max contracts + Lowry or Duncan. That is the entire salary cap on just 4 players, you need rotation players to fill out the roster and that is where the importance of keeping Caleb comes into play

You keep stating that they can always find these guys for free but fail to realize the few quality guys that fit the bill are already signed to the contenders. The free agent market currently is slim pickings and Miami and Phoenix aren't the only choices out there (hello Denver!). 3&D wings aren't available for the minimum man. There is a reason why guys sign for the vet min.

Where I agree with you is if Portland demands Caleb or else than yes you make that deal. That request should allow Miami to keep JJJ in that case then. In essence, you negotiate to keep your assets, the majority of the post was to debunk your initial statement asking why they would care about losing Caleb so much.

Give me JJJ over Caleb. If an undersized fringe starter SF is that important, then keep him. With Portland going young, they don’t need him anyway since he’s nearing his 30s. JJJ fits what the Blazers want / need a lot more if they’re rebuilding with youth.

[sfernald]

Herro + Lowry + 4 picks (even if they are very low valued 1sts) + 2 swaps is definitely reasonable for me.

However, my response was in relation to the rumours that Miami is literally offering Herro + filler (i.e. bugger all else).

I'm assuming your response wouldn't have been so aggressive if we were on the same page in that regards...

Sorry my friend, my aggression is not aimed at you, but at the narrative that everyone has these landslide offers lined up. And that if the Heat included the whole arena with Carnival Cruiseline that the offer is still poo poo in comparison. At the end of the day, no one knows for real what's going on or being offered except both FOs, so we'll see when all is said and done what was actually real and what was being sold to both of us for clicks.

At least in my opinion, I don't think Riley would truly show up to the table with a "Lowball" offer like some outlets report. It would be counterproductive in negotiations by creating animosity and getting your FO to instantly be like "anyone but Miami". At worst I think that the package offered is Herro, Lowry, or Duncan 3 picks and 2 swaps with Herro (I get Portland not having an interest in Herro as you guys already have a million SGs all in a similar age range) going to another team, they don't want to include the young guys they already picked as they literally would have no cap space and be in cap purgatory until Jimmy and Dame are done. Depending on what Herro returns, maybe he can net 1 or 2 first. Or a first and a less talented young player bringing the total to Lowry's 30 mil expiring, a young player and 4 picks, and some swaps. Now as a last-ditch effort, I could see the Heat summoning one more 1st if Cronin says "Hey man, let's wrap this up. Throw in one more pick and I sign the deal right here and now" to get it up to 5 total.

And on that same coin, 4-5 picks, Lowry, Jovic, Jaquez, Swaps, Herro. That's not fair either. I don't want him for free, but some people are suggesting trade packages seemingly just out of pure spite just because "screw Miami". There has to be a middle ground where realistically it's a win for everyone. No fleece in either direction.

Your starting point is..

1. You want Damien Lillard
2. You won’t give up your best player
3. You won’t give up your 2nd best player

There ain’t a great deal left to negotiate over. Either you give up most of the rest or you move on, and that should include a handful of unprotected 1’s, JJJ, and Caleb Martin.

I just imagine the conversation going something like this:

Cronin: Okay so we know your best player is Butler. We would like your second best player for all-nba Lillard. That would be Bam.

Riley: (laughs) Oh no, sorry we would never possibly in a million years give up Bam. We might give up Herro though.

Cronin: Okay, but we don’t want Herro, but maybe you could get an asset or two for him that we do want?

Riley: (laughs) Oh no sorry that’s your problem. I’m paying the Miami press here as we speak to turn up the heat right now. So you better hurry.

Cronin: Well how about that late first rookie you just drafted, Jaquez?

Riley: (laughs) Oh no, he’s untouchable and we will die on that hill. No deal. **** off.

Cronin: That second year player Jokic hasn’t done much but I guess we’ll take him.

Riley: Ahh **** off. You can take Lowry’s contract or eat ****.

Cronin: Not even Caleb?

Riley: Just **** off!

[bisme37]

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