Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell

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Who’s been more valuable

Donovan Mitchell
76
42%
Jalen Brunson
104
58%
 
Total votes: 180

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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donavan Mitchell 

Post#81 » by cgf » Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:15 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
cgf wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:No one would see those and say any player killed the other lmaooooo the stats are essentially identical.


You're really hung up on people saying Brunson "killed" Mitchell last spring, huh? Can you at least admit that...even if we focus just on the series between them that was better for Mitchell, despite you being the one to bring up their previous meeting...the #s are neither a push nor do they favor Mitchell?

They were close...other than net rating...but Brunson scored a little more, more efficiently, while taking care of the ball a little better. So claiming that Mitchell was better is even less accurate than anything you're pushing back against.
And Mitchell had more assists and mor rebounds slightly, similar to Brunson with slightly more points.

Both guys played like trash, is the point to take away. Not the point of well this guy was a tiny bit less trash.

When good defensive teams face off, it is bound to happen but actual great players rise above even that.


So you can't just say that despite Brunson grabbing 1 less rebound in the series, he outplayed Mitchell by scoring better and taking better care of the ball? You're really going to die on this "Mitchell was as good or better than Brunson" hill?

At least you can admit that the way Brunson stepped up in round two was the kind of thing that only great players do :wink:

EDIT:
Would you be ok with me using your logic to argue that since both Randle & Mitchell sucked last postseason, Julius is just as good or better than Mitchell in the playoffs? Or would you then argue that there are different levels of sucking and acknowledge that one guy sucking could still be better than another player sucking?
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell 

Post#82 » by INKtastic » Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:21 pm

Mitchell is significantly better statistically on both ends of the court, raw stats, advanced stats, however you want to look at it. And Mitchell has his team ahead and pulling away in the standings with no All Star teammates. How is Brunson winning this poll? Have people simply not been watching the Cavs play this year?

Cavs are getting so little respect for what they're doing. 1/2 game out of 2nd best record in the league.

But somehow have only 1 all star, who apparently most think isn't a top MVP candidate. Or even ahead of Brunson.

cavs have the same record as the Clippers and beat the clippers by 10 points. The Clippers have a combined 33 all star appearances, 27 all NBA appearances, 2x MVPs, 2x FMVPs, 2x DPOY

Mitchell is 5x all star, 1x all NBA. Outside of him, the cavs have a total of 2 all star appearances. No all nba apparearnces, no MVPs, no DPOY.

They have the same record and beat the clippers.

Certainly someone on that team should be getting credit for their success.

How does anyone look at the standings, look at the stats, look at the recognition of teammates, look at the number of injuries each team has faced, etc, and decide Brunson is better than Mitchell right now?

Yes the cavs in their first playoffs as a group, and first playoffs ever for most of the players, lost last year. Lost of teams struggle their first playoffs together. The question isn't if that happens, it's how do they respond the next year.

Mitchell responded by becoming head and shoulders better this year than last year. At every aspect of the game. And is a big reason why the cavs are head and shoulders better this year than last year despite having far more starter games missed for injuries than any other top team.

Win tonight (vs sixers) and they either pull into a tie for 2nd best record, or pull ahead of the clippers. And extend their winning streak to 10 games, the longest winnings streak of any team in the league this year. A winning streak that started by beating the Bucks in Milwaukee by 12, then beating the clippers by 10.
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell 

Post#83 » by iLLmatic860 » Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:26 pm

Times are def changing.

I'm not use to Cavs fans playing victim towards the Knicks

gotta say, its refreshing to see lol
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell 

Post#84 » by cgf » Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:29 pm

INKtastic wrote:Mitchell is significantly better statistically on both ends of the court, raw stats, advanced stats, however you want to look at it. And Mitchell has his team ahead and pulling away in the standings with no All Star teammates. How is Brunson winning this poll? Have people simply not been watching the Cavs play this year?

Cavs are getting so little respect for what they're doing. 1/2 game out of 2nd best record in the league.

But somehow have only 1 all star, who apparently most think isn't a top MVP candidate. Or even ahead of Brunson.

cavs have the same record as the Clippers and beat the clippers by 10 points. The Clippers have a combined 33 all star appearances, 27 all NBA appearances, 2x MVPs, 2x FMVPs, 2x DPOY

Mitchell is 5x all star, 1x all NBA. Outside of him, the cavs have a total of 2 all star appearances. No all nba apparearnces, no MVPs, no DPOY.

They have the same record and beat the clippers.

Certainly someone on that team should be getting credit for their success.

How does anyone look at the standings, look at the stats, look at the recognition of teammates, look at the number of injuries each team has faced, etc, and decide Brunson is better than Mitchell right now?

Yes the cavs in their first playoffs as a group, and first playoffs ever for most of the players, lost last year. Lost of teams struggle their first playoffs together. The question isn't if that happens, it's how do they respond the next year.

Mitchell responded by becoming head and shoulders better this year than last year. At every aspect of the game. And is a big reason why the cavs are head and shoulders better this year than last year despite having far more starter games missed for injuries than any other top team.


Not saying that Mitchell isn't outproducing Brunson this season...like I said in the other thread, I don't think anyone would be wrong to argue that Spida has been the best guard in the east this season...but technically, Mitchell's Allstar team-mate is on the court helping him right now, as Allen has been a huge part of the Cavs' run. While Brunson's Allstar team-mate is out until the end of the month (at least).


As for the poll, it really comes down to how people are defining things. These two have gone head to head as their teams' #1 in the past two postseasons and Brunson came out ahead both times, despite entering each series on the underdog. So if people read the poll as 'which one would I rather have on my team' I think it's understandable to prefer Brunson, despite Mitchell having the bigger #s and the Cavs being 2-3 games ahead in the standings.
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell 

Post#85 » by INKtastic » Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:33 pm

cgf wrote:
INKtastic wrote:Mitchell is significantly better statistically on both ends of the court, raw stats, advanced stats, however you want to look at it. And Mitchell has his team ahead and pulling away in the standings with no All Star teammates. How is Brunson winning this poll? Have people simply not been watching the Cavs play this year?

Cavs are getting so little respect for what they're doing. 1/2 game out of 2nd best record in the league.

But somehow have only 1 all star, who apparently most think isn't a top MVP candidate. Or even ahead of Brunson.

cavs have the same record as the Clippers and beat the clippers by 10 points. The Clippers have a combined 33 all star appearances, 27 all NBA appearances, 2x MVPs, 2x FMVPs, 2x DPOY

Mitchell is 5x all star, 1x all NBA. Outside of him, the cavs have a total of 2 all star appearances. No all nba apparearnces, no MVPs, no DPOY.

They have the same record and beat the clippers.

Certainly someone on that team should be getting credit for their success.

How does anyone look at the standings, look at the stats, look at the recognition of teammates, look at the number of injuries each team has faced, etc, and decide Brunson is better than Mitchell right now?

Yes the cavs in their first playoffs as a group, and first playoffs ever for most of the players, lost last year. Lost of teams struggle their first playoffs together. The question isn't if that happens, it's how do they respond the next year.

Mitchell responded by becoming head and shoulders better this year than last year. At every aspect of the game. And is a big reason why the cavs are head and shoulders better this year than last year despite having far more starter games missed for injuries than any other top team.


Not saying that Mitchell isn't outproducing Brunson this season...like I said in the other thread, I don't think anyone would be wrong to argue that Spida has been the best guard in the east this season...but technically, Mitchell's Allstar team-mate is on the court helping him right now, as Allen has made the Allstar game before and he's been a huge part of the Cavs' run. While Brunson's Allstar team-mate is out until the end of the month (at least).


As for the poll, it really comes down to how people are defining things. These two have gone head to head as their teams' #1 in the past two postseasons and Brunson came out ahead both times, despite entering each series on the underdog. So if people read the poll as 'which one would I rather have on my team' I think it's understandable to prefer Brunson, despite Mitchell having the bigger #s and the Cavs being 2-3 games ahead.


Allen isn't considered an all star this year, not even as Randle's replacement. Mitchell played without Garland and Mobley for over a month. Both players missed 24 games. he didn't use that as an excuse to lose, he instead stepped up and won.

There is a huge mismatch between the recognition any of the cavs players get, starting with Mitchell, and their record.
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell 

Post#86 » by cgf » Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:39 pm

INKtastic wrote:
cgf wrote:
INKtastic wrote:Mitchell is significantly better statistically on both ends of the court, raw stats, advanced stats, however you want to look at it. And Mitchell has his team ahead and pulling away in the standings with no All Star teammates. How is Brunson winning this poll? Have people simply not been watching the Cavs play this year?

Cavs are getting so little respect for what they're doing. 1/2 game out of 2nd best record in the league.

But somehow have only 1 all star, who apparently most think isn't a top MVP candidate. Or even ahead of Brunson.

cavs have the same record as the Clippers and beat the clippers by 10 points. The Clippers have a combined 33 all star appearances, 27 all NBA appearances, 2x MVPs, 2x FMVPs, 2x DPOY

Mitchell is 5x all star, 1x all NBA. Outside of him, the cavs have a total of 2 all star appearances. No all nba apparearnces, no MVPs, no DPOY.

They have the same record and beat the clippers.

Certainly someone on that team should be getting credit for their success.

How does anyone look at the standings, look at the stats, look at the recognition of teammates, look at the number of injuries each team has faced, etc, and decide Brunson is better than Mitchell right now?

Yes the cavs in their first playoffs as a group, and first playoffs ever for most of the players, lost last year. Lost of teams struggle their first playoffs together. The question isn't if that happens, it's how do they respond the next year.

Mitchell responded by becoming head and shoulders better this year than last year. At every aspect of the game. And is a big reason why the cavs are head and shoulders better this year than last year despite having far more starter games missed for injuries than any other top team.


Not saying that Mitchell isn't outproducing Brunson this season...like I said in the other thread, I don't think anyone would be wrong to argue that Spida has been the best guard in the east this season...but technically, Mitchell's Allstar team-mate is on the court helping him right now, as Allen has made the Allstar game before and he's been a huge part of the Cavs' run. While Brunson's Allstar team-mate is out until the end of the month (at least).


As for the poll, it really comes down to how people are defining things. These two have gone head to head as their teams' #1 in the past two postseasons and Brunson came out ahead both times, despite entering each series on the underdog. So if people read the poll as 'which one would I rather have on my team' I think it's understandable to prefer Brunson, despite Mitchell having the bigger #s and the Cavs being 2-3 games ahead.


Allen isn't considered an all star this year, not even as Randle's replacement. Mitchell played without Garland and Mobley for over a month. Both players missed 24 games. he didn't use that as an excuse to lose, he instead stepped up and won.


TBF Allen didn't get more Allstar buzz because of the way he got pushed around last spring, some voters have literally said as much when explaining why he wasn't a candidate for them. And when people say Allstar team-mate they don't always mean someone who made the team that season, just someone who's made the Allstar team before and is still at that level...which is why I wasn't sure how specific you were being with the phrase.

So I just wanted to throw JAfro some love for how well he's playing...this team has kept grinding/scrapping, but I can't wait for our bigs to get back :lol:
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donavan Mitchell 

Post#87 » by JujitsuFlip » Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:40 pm

cgf wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
cgf wrote:
You're really hung up on people saying Brunson "killed" Mitchell last spring, huh? Can you at least admit that...even if we focus just on the series between them that was better for Mitchell, despite you being the one to bring up their previous meeting...the #s are neither a push nor do they favor Mitchell?

They were close...other than net rating...but Brunson scored a little more, more efficiently, while taking care of the ball a little better. So claiming that Mitchell was better is even less accurate than anything you're pushing back against.
And Mitchell had more assists and mor rebounds slightly, similar to Brunson with slightly more points.

Both guys played like trash, is the point to take away. Not the point of well this guy was a tiny bit less trash.

When good defensive teams face off, it is bound to happen but actual great players rise above even that.


So you can't just say that despite Brunson grabbing 1 less rebound in the series, he outplayed Mitchell by scoring better and taking better care of the ball? You're really going to die on this "Mitchell was as good or better than Brunson" hill?

At least you can admit that the way Brunson stepped up in round two was the kind of thing that only great players do :wink:

EDIT:
Would you be ok with me using your logic to argue that since both Randle & Mitchell sucked last postseason, Julius is just as good or better than Mitchell in the playoffs? Or would you then argue that there are different levels of sucking and acknowledge that one guy sucking could still be better than another player sucking?
No I'm gonna die on the hill that Brunson did not clap Mitchell's butt cheeks in April 2023 lol it's a stupid fabricated narrative that Knicks fans want to be true based on something that happened when the 2 dudes played on different teams lol
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donavan Mitchell 

Post#88 » by cgf » Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:45 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
cgf wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:And Mitchell had more assists and mor rebounds slightly, similar to Brunson with slightly more points.

Both guys played like trash, is the point to take away. Not the point of well this guy was a tiny bit less trash.

When good defensive teams face off, it is bound to happen but actual great players rise above even that.


So you can't just say that despite Brunson grabbing 1 less rebound in the series, he outplayed Mitchell by scoring better and taking better care of the ball? You're really going to die on this "Mitchell was as good or better than Brunson" hill?

At least you can admit that the way Brunson stepped up in round two was the kind of thing that only great players do :wink:

EDIT:
Would you be ok with me using your logic to argue that since both Randle & Mitchell sucked last postseason, Julius is just as good or better than Mitchell in the playoffs? Or would you then argue that there are different levels of sucking and acknowledge that one guy sucking could still be better than another player sucking?
No I'm gonna die on the hill that Brunson did not clap Mitchell's butt cheeks in April 2023 lol it's a stupid fabricated narrative that Knicks fans want to be true based on something that happened when the 2 dudes played on different teams lol


I'm not asking about killing or clapping butt cheeks or whatever childish phrase you bust out next...that's your hangup, not mine. I'm just asking if you can admit that Brunson was better last spring, or would even that be too much of a 'concession to the enemy' for you to stomach?


PS - you realize that you were the one who asked how many times Brunson & Mitchell have faced each other in the playoffs, right? Knicks fans weren't the ones who brought that Utah - Dallas series into this discussion, you did.
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donavan Mitchell 

Post#89 » by JujitsuFlip » Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:59 pm

cgf wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
cgf wrote:
So you can't just say that despite Brunson grabbing 1 less rebound in the series, he outplayed Mitchell by scoring better and taking better care of the ball? You're really going to die on this "Mitchell was as good or better than Brunson" hill?

At least you can admit that the way Brunson stepped up in round two was the kind of thing that only great players do :wink:

EDIT:
Would you be ok with me using your logic to argue that since both Randle & Mitchell sucked last postseason, Julius is just as good or better than Mitchell in the playoffs? Or would you then argue that there are different levels of sucking and acknowledge that one guy sucking could still be better than another player sucking?
No I'm gonna die on the hill that Brunson did not clap Mitchell's butt cheeks in April 2023 lol it's a stupid fabricated narrative that Knicks fans want to be true based on something that happened when the 2 dudes played on different teams lol


I'm not asking about killing or clapping butt cheeks or whatever childish phrase you bust out next...that's your hangup, not mine. I'm just asking if you can admit that Brunson was better last spring, or would even that be too much of a 'concession to the enemy' for you to stomach?


PS - you realize that you were the one who asked how many times Brunson & Mitchell have faced each other in the playoffs, right? Knicks fans weren't the ones who brought that Utah - Dallas series into this discussion, you did.

Who cares? They were both turds is the point, that is what you should be taking away from this.

Okay, your guy sucked a tiny bit less than my guy lmao i hope that gives ya what ya need.

PS i only said that bc YOU brought up total playoff games played, which completely missed the entire point. You were over here saying "Brunson has 36 playoff games". When i said small sample, his first 7 playoff games are out the window, he hardly played, put up no stats worth mentioning. Then in his 2nd playoffs AFTER the Utah series, he had several games where he went mia or Luka just froze him outta the game. So in those games, I'm saying how much did he do or be credited for doing? The only point i was making is the sample of Jalen being "that guy" in the playoffs isn't that large, yet.
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell 

Post#90 » by dakomish23 » Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:01 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Just as a reminder since some are trying to repaint history.

Player A: 24ppg, 4.2rpg, 4.8apg on 53.2% TS

Player B: 23.2ppg, 5rpg, 7.2apg on 51.8% TS

If anyone believes player a "killed" player b in a 5 game sample, i have some beach front property in Kansas to sell ya.

Stats aren't everything, Brunson was clutch, made big buckets, and his team won handedly against Mitchell's team. 2 year in a row Brunson was equal or better than Mitchell stats wise but, not clutch wise where he was infinitely more clutch, when it mattered the most, and won.
Lol stop it.

If your collective fan base is going to push the "killed" narrative, you're gonna have to have something measurable to back it up.

If ya wanna say the Knicks smacked the Cavs, you're not gonna get any pushback from me. Just this silly narrative that Brunson outperformed Mitchell is damn near impossible to prove.


if someone didn't watch the series and just looked at overall series numbers, you'd think it's fairly even.

But anyone who watched the series saw that Brunson far outplayed Mitchell as the Knicks won the last 3 to close out the series, and that's reflected in the stats over the last 3 games

Brunson 40.8 MPG
24.3 PPG 4.7 RPG 5.3 APG 1.7 SPG
46.8% on 20.7 FGA
36.8% on 6.3 3PA
100% on 2.7 FTA

Mitchell 41.3 MPG
20.3 PPG 6.0 RPG 5.0 APG 1.7 SPG
39.7% on 21.0 FGA
20.8% on 8.0 3PA
75.0% on 2.7 FTA
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell 

Post#91 » by INKtastic » Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:05 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:Stats aren't everything, Brunson was clutch, made big buckets, and his team won handedly against Mitchell's team. 2 year in a row Brunson was equal or better than Mitchell stats wise but, not clutch wise where he was infinitely more clutch, when it mattered the most, and won.
Lol stop it.

If your collective fan base is going to push the "killed" narrative, you're gonna have to have something measurable to back it up.

If ya wanna say the Knicks smacked the Cavs, you're not gonna get any pushback from me. Just this silly narrative that Brunson outperformed Mitchell is damn near impossible to prove.


if someone didn't watch the series and just looked at overall series numbers, you'd think it's fairly even.

But anyone who watched the series saw that Brunson far outplayed Mitchell as the Knicks won the last 3 to close out the series, and that's reflected in the stats over the last 3 games

Brunson 40.8 MPG
24.3 PPG 4.7 RPG 5.3 APG 1.7 SPG
46.8% on 20.7 FGA
36.8% on 6.3 3PA
100% on 2.7 FTA

Mitchell 41.3 MPG
20.3 PPG 6.0 RPG 5.0 APG 1.7 SPG
39.7% on 21.0 FGA
20.8% on 8.0 3PA
75.0% on 2.7 FTA


Rebounding was the difference in that series.
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donavan Mitchell 

Post#92 » by cgf » Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:12 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
cgf wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:No I'm gonna die on the hill that Brunson did not clap Mitchell's butt cheeks in April 2023 lol it's a stupid fabricated narrative that Knicks fans want to be true based on something that happened when the 2 dudes played on different teams lol


I'm not asking about killing or clapping butt cheeks or whatever childish phrase you bust out next...that's your hangup, not mine. I'm just asking if you can admit that Brunson was better last spring, or would even that be too much of a 'concession to the enemy' for you to stomach?


PS - you realize that you were the one who asked how many times Brunson & Mitchell have faced each other in the playoffs, right? Knicks fans weren't the ones who brought that Utah - Dallas series into this discussion, you did.

Who cares? They were both turds is the point, that is what you should be taking away from this.

Okay, your guy sucked a tiny bit less than my guy lmao i hope that gives ya what ya need.

PS i only said that bc YOU brought up total playoff games played, which completely missed the entire point. You were over here saying "Brunson has 36 playoff games". When i said small sample, his first 7 playoff games are out the window, he hardly played, put up no stats worth mentioning. Then in his 2nd playoffs AFTER the Utah series, he had several games where he went mia or Luka just froze him outta the game. So in those games, I'm saying how much did he do or be credited for doing? The only point i was making is the sample of Jalen being "that guy" in the playoffs isn't that large, yet.


Fair enough. I can live with any logic that argues Playoff Randle = Playoff Mitchell...which is objectively over-hyping JuJu, but he's such an under-rated player that I don't mind seeming him get his tires pumped.

I really hope he & Jalen are both healthy this postseason so more people can see what Brundle are truly capable of. Like Jalen, Julius stepped up in the Miami series...19-10-4 on 53% TS...but the man still needed to get surgery as soon as the season ended.
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell 

Post#93 » by GeorgeSears » Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:14 pm

Jalen Brunson severly outplayed Mitchell two years ago in the playoffs. This was before he was the all-star version of himself, and this was without Luka for the first two games. The Mavs won in 6. He's outplaying him this year, too.

Jamal Murray has always been better than Donovan Mitchell. I could list numerous other guards that are better.

Mitchell's never going to be good enough to carry a team if he's the first option. Too streaky of a shooter. Too poor of a defender. Average passer.
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donavan Mitchell 

Post#94 » by RHODEY » Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:25 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:I do not believe Mitchell is a strong playoff performer so i think what i presented is fine. Regular season has never been his issue, hence why he's never missed the playoffs in his career.

However, unlike the Knick fans i still think it is possible for Mitchell to have a good playoff run this season.

No one argued that Mitchell was doomed to have a bad playoff series. We are just pointed out to you that relative to Brunson so far he has. But you do have the right to be butthurt about that fact.
I'm not butthurt about anything, Cavs have a ring in the past decade, the Knicks last ring was when?

The loudest group isn't always the right group, lmfao

ah so you're a disgruntled Cavs fan....everything makes sense now.
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell 

Post#95 » by cgf » Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:29 pm

GeorgeSears wrote:Jalen Brunson severly outplayed Mitchell two years ago in the playoffs. This was before he was the all-star version of himself, and this was without Luka for the first two games. The Mavs won in 6. He's outplaying him this year, too.

Jamal Murray has always been better than Donovan Mitchell. I could list numerous other guards that are better.

Mitchell's never going to be good enough to carry a team if he's the first option. Too streaky of a shooter. Too poor of a defender. Average passer.


You're going too far with that last line. Mitchell's defending a lot better this season...not sure how much of that is because he's getting to play the 1 in Garland's absence, but his defensive metrics are better than the Brunson / Booker / Lavine's and way better than the Trae / Murray / Bojan's of the NBA.

And I don't think the #s support calling him a streaky shooter. My critique would be more about his lack of activity when he's off the ball...he's much more Trae or Dame than Steph or Brunson, if that parses...and that he just hasn't seemed to have that same "clutchness" that a Brunson, Murray, or Butler has shown.

But nobody's "a winner" until they are, and that sort of crunch time performance is something that a lot of players get better at as they develop/mature. So just because Mitchell hasn't been clutch in his early-to-mid 20s doesn't mean he won't be clutch in his mid-to-late 20s or 30s.
cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.

Capn'O wrote:We're not the kid cousin. We're the recovering meth addict older brother. And we've been clean for a few years now, thank you very much. Very uncouth to bring it up.
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell 

Post#96 » by INKtastic » Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:30 pm

GeorgeSears wrote:Jalen Brunson severly outplayed Mitchell two years ago in the playoffs. This was before he was the all-star version of himself, and this was without Luka for the first two games. The Mavs won in 6. He's outplaying him this year, too.

Jamal Murray has always been better than Donovan Mitchell. I could list numerous other guards that are better.

Mitchell's never going to be good enough to carry a team if he's the first option. Too streaky of a shooter. Too poor of a defender. Average passer.


2nd in the league in steals

And among the 99 players who play 30 minutes/game, you know the top players in the league. Mitchell is #1 in the league in defensive rating.

Such a poor defender. :roll:

Too many people are making assumptions about Mitchell from the past and completely overlooking how hard he worked this offseason to become a better player in every aspect of the game after last year's first round exit.

Try watching some cavs games and see first hand how much better he is this year.
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donavan Mitchell 

Post#97 » by JujitsuFlip » Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:35 pm

RHODEY wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
RHODEY wrote:No one argued that Mitchell was doomed to have a bad playoff series. We are just pointed out to you that relative to Brunson so far he has. But you do have the right to be butthurt about that fact.
I'm not butthurt about anything, Cavs have a ring in the past decade, the Knicks last ring was when?

The loudest group isn't always the right group, lmfao

ah so you're a disgruntled Cavs fan....everything makes sense now.
Being the 3rd best team in the entire league is difficult, i must say, leaves me so disgruntled.
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell 

Post#98 » by cgf » Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:40 pm

INKtastic wrote:
GeorgeSears wrote:Jalen Brunson severly outplayed Mitchell two years ago in the playoffs. This was before he was the all-star version of himself, and this was without Luka for the first two games. The Mavs won in 6. He's outplaying him this year, too.

Jamal Murray has always been better than Donovan Mitchell. I could list numerous other guards that are better.

Mitchell's never going to be good enough to carry a team if he's the first option. Too streaky of a shooter. Too poor of a defender. Average passer.


2nd in the league in steals

And among the 99 players who play 30 minutes/game, you know the top players in hte league. Mitchell is #1 in the league in defensive rating.

Such a poor defender. :roll:


A lot of bad defenders do well in steals and defensive rating can be impacted a lot by the team around you, but Donovan has very strong advanced metrics.

This season DARKO +0.75, LEBRON +0.50, EPM +1.4 (87th percentile), all put his D above pretty much every guards in his offensive tier and his on/off #s are very impressive on both ends of the court.

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612739&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1628378&OnlyCommonGames=true
https://dunksandthrees.com/epm
https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-application/
https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO//


Now we dunno how much those will drop once Garland comes back and Mitchell goes back to guarding 2s, but atm defense is an argument that Spida has over pretty much any guard you'd put him up against.
cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.

Capn'O wrote:We're not the kid cousin. We're the recovering meth addict older brother. And we've been clean for a few years now, thank you very much. Very uncouth to bring it up.
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donavan Mitchell 

Post#99 » by RHODEY » Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:03 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:I'm not butthurt about anything, Cavs have a ring in the past decade, the Knicks last ring was when?

The loudest group isn't always the right group, lmfao

ah so you're a disgruntled Cavs fan....everything makes sense now.
Being the 3rd best team in the entire league is difficult, i must say, leaves me so disgruntled.

Do you want a cookie? :D
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Re: Who has Been more valuable? Jalen Brunson or Donovan Mitchell 

Post#100 » by INKtastic » Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:41 pm

cgf wrote:
INKtastic wrote:
GeorgeSears wrote:Jalen Brunson severly outplayed Mitchell two years ago in the playoffs. This was before he was the all-star version of himself, and this was without Luka for the first two games. The Mavs won in 6. He's outplaying him this year, too.

Jamal Murray has always been better than Donovan Mitchell. I could list numerous other guards that are better.

Mitchell's never going to be good enough to carry a team if he's the first option. Too streaky of a shooter. Too poor of a defender. Average passer.


2nd in the league in steals

And among the 99 players who play 30 minutes/game, you know the top players in hte league. Mitchell is #1 in the league in defensive rating.

Such a poor defender. :roll:


A lot of bad defenders do well in steals and defensive rating can be impacted a lot by the team around you, but Donovan has very strong advanced metrics.

This season DARKO +0.75, LEBRON +0.50, EPM +1.4 (87th percentile), all put his D above pretty much every guards in his offensive tier and his on/off #s are very impressive on both ends of the court.

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612739&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1628378&OnlyCommonGames=true
https://dunksandthrees.com/epm
https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-application/
https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO//


Now we dunno how much those will drop once Garland comes back and Mitchell goes back to guarding 2s, but atm defense is an argument that Spida has over pretty much any guard you'd put him up against.


Garland missed 24 games, he's been back for 7 games already (all wins, average margin 15.9 points)
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