tsherkin wrote:G35 wrote:Let's be fair
Is that fairness? In that picture even before I got to the post-93 stuff, they did more for Jordan than the Cavs ever did for Lebron in his first run, so painting an even picture of their misses is irrelevant because the value of their wins dramatically outweighed the misses. No one manages perfection in management. The Cavs just didn't do most things well, that's the difference.
The Bulls got lucky because if the Sonics refuse to trade Pippen, then where are the Bulls at?
No where, for sure.
What if the Bulls did not take a chance with Phil Jackson after getting so close with Doug Collins?
Again, likely nowhere. But Pippen panned out and they did take a shot on Phil. So that's irrelevant. The point is that things worked for Chicago. And a fair number of them over time. Every organization swings and misses but the Bulls did a very good overall job keeping quality talent around Jordan.
It's not just draft picks, its not just coaching, its not just talent, it is a willingness to learn and see that things can be done differently, than the way you want them to done, in order to be successful. Lebron never learned that.....
This is an empty criticism, because Lebron very much did learn to adapt in his career. Visibly and obviously, so this is a pointless criticism to peddle.
One of the reasons Jordan is considered the GOAT is because he took a franchise that had never had any type of success and turned them into a modern dynasty. You are just handwaving the things that happened as, "Yeah they happened and it ended up successful so that is why Jordan had more support from the Bulls."
Outside of Pippen, what other high level talent did the Bulls have. Horace was not some elite talent, he made one All Star team and that was when Jordan first retired. Are Paxson/Armstrong/Hodges better than Delonte West/Eric Snow/Wally Z? Is Horace Grant/Cartwright/Perdue/Sellers a better frontcourt than Zydrunas/Gooden/Varejao/Shaq? There is not an appreciable difference.
Remember Pippen was not Pippen until that 1991 season. There were a lot of questions about if Pippen was a good enough #2 because of the migraine game and if he was tough enough to go up against the Pistons. Its revisionist history to act like Pippen was elite in 1988-1990.
You are incorrect in saying that Lebron adapted. No he did not, he gave up on Cleveland and left to go join up with two other All-Stars. If you think that is adapting compared to Jordan giving a rookie coach Phil Jackson a chance with a system no other team was running in the triangle, then you have a funny interpretation of adapting. Jordan gave up a lot of autonomy on the ball to allow Phil to take the ball out of Jordan's hands and put in Pippen's hands and let him be the primary playmaker and let the rest of the team have more autonomy in the offense.
You tell me when Lebron ever gave other players autonomy in the offense because I have yet to see it. If Lebron would have stuck it out in Cleveland and brought them a championship that would give more credence, similar to how Dirk stuck it out with Dallas, how Kobe stuck it out with the Lakers after Shaq left and rebuilt a team, how some of the modern players have stuck it out with their teams like Giannis sticking with Milwaukee (11 years), Jokic sticking it out with Denver (9 years). Creating continuity has benefits instead of leveraging the team into making dumb decisions to appease your demands.....
I'm so tired of the typical......
