Curry deserves more credit for how he became the face of the NBA

[Lalouie]

i don't know that "deserves more credit" is a good phrasing. it means intent

the only player i think who had an agenda coming into the nba was LEBRON

[jokeboy86]

Who was it during Jordan's first retirement, or after his 2nd? Who was it during the mid 2000s, when Lebron wasn't there yet and Kobe was on a Lakers team that struggled with making the playoffs?

After Jordan’s first retirement they didn’t care one because the Knicks were perennial contenders but two also because young players like Shaq, Penny and Grant Hill were emerging and marketable and then Jordan came back.

After his 2nd retirement there was legit general fear not only cause the league also took a hit with Jordan’s retirement and the lockout but also cause Duncan won and had no personality whatsoever. But they were saved by the start of the Shaq/Kobe dynasty along with the emergence of KG, Iverson, and VC and T-Mac.

Mid-2000 they wanted LeBron and Melo cause it was easy to build off their hype and then once Shaq went to the Heat it shifted to Wade since he was the first of those 3 to win a title.

The common theme is all of those players I named were American and with LeBron and Kobe there usually weren’t more than 3 players you would definitively take over them. That’s not the case at all today. No one’s ranking any of today’s top American players over Jokic and Giannis and depending on Luka’s conditioning they’re not ranking them over him either. Add Wemby and now you don’t have any North American players you can say are the best in the league.

The fear(and borderline subtle xenophobia) of the talking heads and national TV networks is basically if the league’s best players are foreign the American audience will tuneout like they’ve done with Heavyweight boxing or how they’ve treated men’s soccer for the better part of it’s existence.

Related to the first retirement. Yes, the Knicks made the finals. But it was also 2 teams lead by foreign players facing each other in the finals. Those finals also had the lowest ratings in years and were impacted by the O. J. Simpson chase. Still the league was getting more popular than ever and probably had it's biggest cultural impact worldwide, while the most famous Basketball player in the world was playing Baseball.

You are also right that Shaq and Kobe took over, but this was not clear from the start. The league came back from a lockout that had never happened in that form and shortly before the season finally starts Michael Jordan announces his retirement. The clear opinion back then was that the lockout created long term damage, that fans had lost interest in the league.

Also true what you say about the league wanting to turn Carmelo and Lebron into stars, but going by MVPs we have between 02 to 06 2x Duncan, 2x Nash, Garnett & Nowitzki. So 2 US players that didn't fit the star narrative that the media wants (at least I never felt that there was ever a push for Garnett in that role). It also didn't matter that you had 3 seasons in a row a foreign MVP. And while Dwade was definitely popular I would not consider him ever being viewed as face of the league.

So in that sense the situation is actually not that much different than now, since you also have some US players playing right now that have the potential to become the face of the league. I think the main difference is that there is now a bigger focus on the negative of players. It's more about why Ant, or Banchero, or Cunningham ain't it, while if you look at their accomplishments based on their age they are actually ahead of the curve.

You are definitely right that it is the first time, that clearly the best players are all non US players, the question is just if this will be a long term situation, or if it will be more a thing of 2-3 seasons until it is a bit more levelled.

It's interesting that you also mentioned other sports, my impression was that Pacquiao and Lennox Lewis were also generally popular in the United States and interestingly it doesn't seem to matter at all for MMA, where a lot of the most successfull and popular fighters are and were foreigners.

In regards to boxing, I think what helped Lewis is that he was from the UK and was trained by a prominent American trainer(founder of Kronk gym out of Detroit). But what also helped him and Pacquiao was the influence and impact that HBO had on the sport of boxing. HBO for years was the perfect promotional vehicle for boxing and basically became known as the boxing channel. Add in 24/7 coincinceding with Pacquiao's rise and it was perfect marketing not just for him but for any boxer on that show. As a hardcore boxing fan I'll say that the sport of boxing did not die once HBO stopped covering it but it's a blow imo that I think boxing will never recover from as far as it's popularity in the states.

As far as MMA's popularity even with foreign fighters I chalk that up to the UFC being the dominant organization which leads to much less confusion for casual sports fans as far as keeping track of the best players. Also White(who is a scum imo as far as fighters rights) has done a masterful job as far as keeping the UFC trendy and in line with the times unlike boxing's promoters and fighters who are have been and are still clearly out of touch with the sport's standing in the US landscape. Even with MMA's popularity though domestically amongst the basic casual sports fans they still can't name that many fighters and the absolute most popular ones have been those either American(Rousey, Lesnar, Jones) or from an English speaking country(and outlandish personality) like McGregor. Since Rousey left it doesn't even seem like the casual sports media even really talks about women's MMA anymore which is disappointing cause the sport has only gotten deeper and better over time.

[Optms]

On the court he is considered the best player post prime Lebron and pre prime Jokic. For a few years he was the best basketball player on the planet.

He was absolutely never better than LeBron. They met in 4 playoff series at Steph's absolute peak and at no point did steph even look close to LeBron.

He did steal a bunch of rings from LeBron-- if the latter won those, he'd be the inarguable GOAT. But thanks to Steph, he'll settle for #2 forever.

The Curry Dynasty Warriors would have beat the Chicago Bulls in the same era.

Lebron is the GOAT. Nice try though.

[durden_tyler]

He was absolutely never better than LeBron. They met in 4 playoff series at Steph's absolute peak and at no point did steph even look close to LeBron.

He did steal a bunch of rings from LeBron-- if the latter won those, he'd be the inarguable GOAT. But thanks to Steph, he'll settle for #2 forever.

I don't really know what steal means in this context, but the only time the warriors beat LeBron with healthy teammates was when KD was their best player in the finals so KDs signing has definitely probably affected lebron's legacy (2015 if anything helped LeBron).

As usual, LeBron and excuses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bkkrh]

After Jordan’s first retirement they didn’t care one because the Knicks were perennial contenders but two also because young players like Shaq, Penny and Grant Hill were emerging and marketable and then Jordan came back.

After his 2nd retirement there was legit general fear not only cause the league also took a hit with Jordan’s retirement and the lockout but also cause Duncan won and had no personality whatsoever. But they were saved by the start of the Shaq/Kobe dynasty along with the emergence of KG, Iverson, and VC and T-Mac.

Mid-2000 they wanted LeBron and Melo cause it was easy to build off their hype and then once Shaq went to the Heat it shifted to Wade since he was the first of those 3 to win a title.

The common theme is all of those players I named were American and with LeBron and Kobe there usually weren’t more than 3 players you would definitively take over them. That’s not the case at all today. No one’s ranking any of today’s top American players over Jokic and Giannis and depending on Luka’s conditioning they’re not ranking them over him either. Add Wemby and now you don’t have any North American players you can say are the best in the league.

The fear(and borderline subtle xenophobia) of the talking heads and national TV networks is basically if the league’s best players are foreign the American audience will tuneout like they’ve done with Heavyweight boxing or how they’ve treated men’s soccer for the better part of it’s existence.

Related to the first retirement. Yes, the Knicks made the finals. But it was also 2 teams lead by foreign players facing each other in the finals. Those finals also had the lowest ratings in years and were impacted by the O. J. Simpson chase. Still the league was getting more popular than ever and probably had it's biggest cultural impact worldwide, while the most famous Basketball player in the world was playing Baseball.

You are also right that Shaq and Kobe took over, but this was not clear from the start. The league came back from a lockout that had never happened in that form and shortly before the season finally starts Michael Jordan announces his retirement. The clear opinion back then was that the lockout created long term damage, that fans had lost interest in the league.

Also true what you say about the league wanting to turn Carmelo and Lebron into stars, but going by MVPs we have between 02 to 06 2x Duncan, 2x Nash, Garnett & Nowitzki. So 2 US players that didn't fit the star narrative that the media wants (at least I never felt that there was ever a push for Garnett in that role). It also didn't matter that you had 3 seasons in a row a foreign MVP. And while Dwade was definitely popular I would not consider him ever being viewed as face of the league.

So in that sense the situation is actually not that much different than now, since you also have some US players playing right now that have the potential to become the face of the league. I think the main difference is that there is now a bigger focus on the negative of players. It's more about why Ant, or Banchero, or Cunningham ain't it, while if you look at their accomplishments based on their age they are actually ahead of the curve.

You are definitely right that it is the first time, that clearly the best players are all non US players, the question is just if this will be a long term situation, or if it will be more a thing of 2-3 seasons until it is a bit more levelled.

It's interesting that you also mentioned other sports, my impression was that Pacquiao and Lennox Lewis were also generally popular in the United States and interestingly it doesn't seem to matter at all for MMA, where a lot of the most successfull and popular fighters are and were foreigners.

In regards to boxing, I think what helped Lewis is that he was from the UK and was trained by a prominent American trainer(founder of Kronk gym out of Detroit). But what also helped him and Pacquiao was the influence and impact that HBO had on the sport of boxing. HBO for years was the perfect promotional vehicle for boxing and basically became known as the boxing channel. Add in 24/7 coincinceding with Pacquiao's rise and it was perfect marketing not just for him but for any boxer on that show. As a hardcore boxing fan I'll say that the sport of boxing did not die once HBO stopped covering it but it's a blow imo that I think boxing will never recover from as far as it's popularity in the states.

As far as MMA's popularity even with foreign fighters I chalk that up to the UFC being the dominant organization which leads to much less confusion for casual sports fans as far as keeping track of the best players. Also White(who is a scum imo as far as fighters rights) has done a masterful job as far as keeping the UFC trendy and in line with the times unlike boxing's promoters and fighters who are have been and are still clearly out of touch with the sport's standing in the US landscape. Even with MMA's popularity though domestically amongst the basic casual sports fans they still can't name that many fighters and the absolute most popular ones have been those either American(Rousey, Lesnar, Jones) or from an English speaking country(and outlandish personality) like McGregor. Since Rousey left it doesn't even seem like the casual sports media even really talks about women's MMA anymore which is disappointing cause the sport has only gotten deeper and better over time.

Think you are pretty on point there. The interesting part though, as you stated, it was related to the Sports media and organisations doing a good job in marketing and integrating their athletes.

To go back to MMA, even some of the US fighters like Stipe Miocic or Rose Namajunas had foreign names. There was just never a big deal made about it. You didn't have some clowns just refusing to learn how to pronounce the name, which of course makes people still seem alien and foreign after years. ´

SImilar thing with the NHL. It was always the case that Canada dominated the league in numbers and talent. from the 80s onwards it was also the case that you got more and more European players. There is a good chance that there are periods during a game where an US team doesn't have a single US player on the field. There isn't a single US player that cracks the all time top 20 of the league. Still the Sport is successfull, especially considering the special conditions that are needed to play the game and is also thriving in cities and areas where you wouldn't expect it at all.

So personally I don't see why this shouldn't also work in the NBA, especially since foreign stars are a thing now for pretty much 40 years. I see the main issue being the gate keeping and giving too much value to the "Michael Jordan would have averaged 60 today" opinions from some former players and media people. THink the league would really benefit here from a general overhaul.

Personally I don't believe that most fans are still that close minded. At least not the younger generation. It was possible to integrate Japanese and Korean culture like Anime, Manga, Video Games and Musik, some of the most popular influencers and content creators are and were foreigners. I don't think that the nationaility is really that big of a deal any more for at least the majority of adults between 18 to 35.

[Raps in 4]

He's definitely one of the most disrespected players I've ever seen. He's put together a top-10 all-time career. You could even make a case for top-5. He completely changed how the game is played, with every team today copying the playbook the Warriors created. I feel this is where a lot of the hate comes from. People blame Steph for "ruining" the NBA. Every team now just chucks 3s instead of playing "real basketball".

[Optms]

He's definitely one of the most disrespected players I've ever seen. He's put together a top-10 all-time career. You could even make a case for top-5. He completely changed how the game is played, with every team today copying the playbook the Warriors created. I feel this is where a lot of the hate comes from. People blame Steph for "ruining" the NBA. Every team now just chucks 3s instead of playing "real basketball".

He's in my top 6 all time.

Its also absurd how he is still so far ahead of the game. Ball movement is still an aspect of basketball where the game hasnt evolved where it should. I think 20 years from now, fans will be looking back at Curry and properly rating him for his true value.

[NbaAllDay]

What Curry did on court is the main reason for him becoming a household name.

He did things in that 15-16 stretch that hadnt been seen before.

His off court presence had helped 'maintain' his stardom even after players started to catch up regarding 3pt volume etc etc.

But his on court play was the main reasons and continued to be for another 5 years after

[MavsDirk41]

He was absolutely never better than LeBron. They met in 4 playoff series at Steph's absolute peak and at no point did steph even look close to LeBron.

He did steal a bunch of rings from LeBron-- if the latter won those, he'd be the inarguable GOAT. But thanks to Steph, he'll settle for #2 forever.

The Curry Dynasty Warriors would have beat the Chicago Bulls in the same era.

Lebron is the GOAT. Nice try though.

Its not certain that those Warriors beat the goat and his Bulls in 96

[nazario]

He was absolutely never better than LeBron. They met in 4 playoff series at Steph's absolute peak and at no point did steph even look close to LeBron.

He did steal a bunch of rings from LeBron-- if the latter won those, he'd be the inarguable GOAT. But thanks to Steph, he'll settle for #2 forever.

I don't really know what steal means in this context, but the only time the warriors beat LeBron with healthy teammates was when KD was their best player in the finals so KDs signing has definitely probably affected lebron's legacy (2015 if anything helped LeBron).

I'm shocked that the Rockets fan can't comprehend how a player can dominate by empowering his teammates through intangibles and movement, since Harden never moved offball in his life.

In a vacuum you might take KD. To build a team you take Curry all day every day. This 1vs1 mindset makes you look like foolish at best.

[nazario]

On the court he is considered the best player post prime Lebron and pre prime Jokic. For a few years he was the best basketball player on the planet.

When was he ever considered the best player on the plant for a few seasons?

He has never been the face of the league.

Yes, he was and is. Despite being on the same team for 10+ years he still carries the league in terms of viewership and jersey sales. I know, it hurts. But the numbers are unequivocal.

[f4p]

He did steal a bunch of rings from LeBron-- if the latter won those, he'd be the inarguable GOAT. But thanks to Steph, he'll settle for #2 forever.

I don't really know what steal means in this context, but the only time the warriors beat LeBron with healthy teammates was when KD was their best player in the finals so KDs signing has definitely probably affected lebron's legacy (2015 if anything helped LeBron).

I'm shocked that the Rockets fan can't comprehend how a player can dominate by empowering his teammates through intangibles and movement, since Harden never moved offball in his life.

In a vacuum you might take KD. To build a team you take Curry all day every day. This 1vs1 mindset makes you look like foolish at best.

and i'm shocked a warriors fan thinks they just say the word "offball" and/or "gravity" and steph is automatically the bestest, no matter the results. KD averaged 35 ppg on 70 TS% in the 2017 finals, which are historic numbers that might never be repeated. even if you want to claim steph was slightly better in the playoffs (a fairly pointless distinction given they went 16-1 and who was 1A or 1B didn't matter), it would seem difficult to argue against KD in the finals.

and in 2018, steph has pretty much no claim to be better than KD at any point in the playoffs, no matter how much he runs around without the ball. KD didn't miss the first 6 games of the playoffs, led the team in PER/WS48/BPM and led the team in on/off while steph was 4th. and then was much better in the finals (with steph dropping off quite a bit in TS% against a terrible defense), which again was the only relevant series in the context of this lebron conversation. we have to actually look at what happened, not just wax poetic about empowerment.

and of course since you brought up harden, in their 3 head to head series, harden without moving or empowering his teammates has a +16.2 on/off while steph the empowerer has a +5.3 on/off. and over the primes of their playoff careers, steph is +12.0 and harden (2011-2021) is +11.4. so they both seem pretty empowering.

[Percentsign]

On the court he is considered the best player post prime Lebron and pre prime Jokic. For a few years he was the best basketball player on the planet.

When Durant joined the team, he was considered the best player on Warriors. Curry was basically the Robin to Durant's Batman

[HotelVitale]

On the court he is considered the best player post prime Lebron and pre prime Jokic. For a few years he was the best basketball player on the planet.

When was he ever considered the best player on the plant for a few seasons?

He has never been the face of the league.

Yes, he was and is. Despite being on the same team for 10+ years he still carries the league in terms of viewership and jersey sales. I know, it hurts. But the numbers are unequivocal.

'Face of the league' is pretty vague and not useful to argue about, but I don't think there's been that much time when Curry was the one guy clearly getting the most attention or adoration. There's definitely been a few spots when that was the case--especially his first title and breakthrough--but it feels like he's been more slow and steady presence than unquestioned #1 guy.

Jersey sales backs that up--he was only the top seller like 3 years, with some years not being top-5 or -6 too. But he's been steadily close to top-4 for a decade. Also i don't know about the TV stuff but my guess is that him staying on one team while Lebron changed like 4 times was/is a major factor in that.

[The4thHorseman]

On the court he is considered the best player post prime Lebron and pre prime Jokic. For a few years he was the best basketball player on the planet.

He was absolutely never better than LeBron. They met in 4 playoff series at Steph's absolute peak and at no point did steph even look close to LeBron.

He did steal a bunch of rings from LeBron-- if the latter won those, he'd be the inarguable GOAT. But thanks to Steph, he'll settle for #2 forever.

He stole them by recruiting KD the majority of the 2016 season.

[HMFFL]

On the court he is considered the best player post prime Lebron and pre prime Jokic. For a few years he was the best basketball player on the planet.

When was he ever considered the best player on the plant for a few seasons?

He has never been the face of the league.

Imo, he was never the best player on the planet but shared being the face of the league with Lebron.

They aren't mutually exclusive.

He has never been the face of the league.

[NO-KG-AI]

I was coming here to say he’s not the face of the NBA and isn’t a household name like that, and I always use my mom as the household name test… i got a text randomly today about my nephews that said “These kids shoot the basketball and say “curry” lol cuties”

I’m not sure she knows what it means, but his name is common nomenclature to the point that my nephews that don’t watch or play basketball know his name

[Cavsfansince84]

I think people make way too much of a big deal out of the whole 'face of the league' thing on here. It's not all about basketball. It's more about fanbases and how much fans connect with a player than anything else. It's not that relevant to how good a player actually is.