Is it possible to be called for a push off while not extending your arm?

[Lockdown504090]

I'm not sure what extended arm is but in these highlights push offs are at 0:29 (with extended arm), 0:40, 1:01. At 2:18 and 3:00 you have some marshal art hits with elbows. It is some UFC s*it

Watch on YouTube

If they keep the arm in like a chicken wing, even if guys push or lean into the defender, as long as it's of course not excessive (and none of those are), they get away with push offs more often than if they extend the forearm at the elbow joint.

I'm simply explaining what I've seen over time. I'm not suggesting this is how it should be, but guys are always figuring out things that they can use to get away with stuff.

Yep, good observation. When I lived and played in Spain, the skills trainers we worked with would teach us how to use the off arm. It makes a huge difference and is the right way to be physical against physical defenders. It's legal in FIBA play too, but, similarly to the gather step, many FIBA and NBA fans aren't aware of it.

Here is a whole video tutorial on how to grab and push off legally.

Watch on YouTube

I was looking for more FIBA examples, but the issue is that we don't really have prolific physical off the dribble mid range scorers over here, like SGA or Kawhi, which is a key area where the use of that arm is vital. Kevin Punter is money from mid range, but he tends to dribble forward or laterally into space before rising up. TJ Shorts is very similar in that regard.

This is what I don’t get…. There numerous official professional sources telling yall why this is okay. People are giving breakdowns on why it’s okay.

Some people just aren’t willing to engage with the sport on that nuanced level and they will just come up with their own conspiracy because it’s more fun. Refs want Okc to win but Ben mathurin has one of the highest free throw rates in playoff history.

[magee]

If they keep the arm in like a chicken wing, even if guys push or lean into the defender, as long as it's of course not excessive (and none of those are), they get away with push offs more often than if they extend the forearm at the elbow joint.

I'm simply explaining what I've seen over time. I'm not suggesting this is how it should be, but guys are always figuring out things that they can use to get away with stuff.

Yep, good observation. When I lived and played in Spain, the skills trainers we worked with would teach us how to use the off arm. It makes a huge difference and is the right way to be physical against physical defenders. It's legal in FIBA play too, but, similarly to the gather step, many FIBA and NBA fans aren't aware of it.

Here is a whole video tutorial on how to grab and push off legally.

Watch on YouTube

I was looking for more FIBA examples, but the issue is that we don't really have prolific physical off the dribble mid range scorers over here, like SGA or Kawhi, which is a key area where the use of that arm is vital. Kevin Punter is money from mid range, but he tends to dribble forward or laterally into space before rising up. TJ Shorts is very similar in that regard.

This is what I don’t get…. There numerous official professional sources telling yall why this is okay. People are giving breakdowns on why it’s okay.

Some people just aren’t willing to engage with the sport on that nuanced level and they will just come up with their own conspiracy because it’s more fun. Refs want Okc to win but Ben mathurin has one of the highest free throw rates in playoff history.

Sending you a PM. I started up my own NBA content account on IG and I touched up on Ben Mathurin's Free Throw Rate before Game 3. Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that.

[Alatan]

Here an example posted by the NBA re the current interpretation of the push off. Oddly enough they use Jokic in the video.

https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/offensive-foul-dribbler-pushes-off-on-step-back/

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It would be funny if it was not sad and anger inducing. It would be like using Steven Adams to explain what is a flagrant foul.

[JonFromVA]

You can generate a lot of force without “extending your arm.” I’m sure I could knock someone out with that range of motion and severely hurt someone.


Does it matter if you displace the defender? Does it matter if it’s enough force to break a rib?

Honestly asking for those in the know about the rule and current interpretation. Can someone let me know.

As far as I know this chicken wing crap is illegal (unless the refs want to claim the contact was incidental to the play), but apparently what is legal is slamming a shoulder in to a defender's chest as hard as you can.

But the media has been bemoaning the lack of physicality in the modern NBA, so enjoy I guess. It's a big part of how Indiana has gotten this far in the first place.

[BelgradeNugget]

Jokic himself has adjusted and uses his off arm without extending to trigger a call. He's another super physical offensive player to go against.

What I definitely learned as I played better competition when I was younger was that pushing off was a skill for a lot of guys. I didn't realize how many guys did it until the level of comp increased and I was like, "isn't this a foul?".

SGA does the chicken wing, if you see that example of Jokic, he extends the arm past that chicken wing position. From what I've seen, if you put out the arm like an armbar like you're protecting the ball and avoid extending your forearm, even if you lean into the defender with that chicken wing, you can really get away with push offs quite consistently.

I think there needs to be a look into this, but the refs have also allowed an increased level of "handiness" by defenses, so question is whether it balances in a sense.

I'm not sure what extended arm is but in these highlights push offs are at 0:29 (with extended arm), 0:40, 1:01. At 2:18 and 3:00 you have some marshal art hits with elbows. It is some UFC s*it

Watch on YouTube

If they keep the arm in like a chicken wing, even if guys push or lean into the defender, as long as it's of course not excessive (and none of those are), they get away with push offs more often than if they extend the forearm at the elbow joint.

I'm simply explaining what I've seen over time. I'm not suggesting this is how it should be, but guys are always figuring out things that they can use to get away with stuff.

I get what you saying, and I agree with you. Push offs are part of basketball. I saw 3 in this video which are what a lot of player do. At 3:00 you have push off which is not typical.
But at 2:18 if you don't see anything controversial, we can not agree on that.

[Mrakar]

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This is an example what are you not allowed to do by the rules, and sadly in this case referee(Scott Foster) didnt have clear view at the play so he didnt call it

[Accurim]

nba reffing has been messy and inconsistent for decades. sga is the mvp, but give it a few years and they'll start calling fouls more often on him.

[sunless01]

I was watching an old lakers game on the lakers network and Kobe does a slight pushoff and they call the offensive foul. It was like half of what all the guys do now. Pretty funny to see

[og15]

I'm not sure what extended arm is but in these highlights push offs are at 0:29 (with extended arm), 0:40, 1:01. At 2:18 and 3:00 you have some marshal art hits with elbows. It is some UFC s*it

Watch on YouTube

If they keep the arm in like a chicken wing, even if guys push or lean into the defender, as long as it's of course not excessive (and none of those are), they get away with push offs more often than if they extend the forearm at the elbow joint.

I'm simply explaining what I've seen over time. I'm not suggesting this is how it should be, but guys are always figuring out things that they can use to get away with stuff.

I get what you saying, and I agree with you. Push offs are part of basketball. I saw 3 in this video which are what a lot of player do. At 3:00 you have push off which is not typical.
But at 2:18 if you don't see anything controversial, we can not agree on that.

2:18 to me isn't even a regular push off, defender is way to the side, that's just an offensive foul to me, so yes, that one was excessive, sorry, I can't remember all the plays.

Anyways, my general point is that technique wise, this is what guys are taught on how to push off without getting it called very much or at all sometimes.