Post Mortem #15 - Memphis Grizzlies

[tsherkin]

They need superior perimeter play, and they flatly couldn't defend the Thunder even with Shai struggling to hit shots, so...

Dunno that coaching was the issue there.

[GunnerWRX]

Just move that team elsewhere. Vegas. Seattle. Heck even back to Vancouver.

[Doctor MJ]

Keep, change, worse than expected, treadmill.

This is the essence of it to me.

I think the GM deserves to now be on the hot seat after firing his coach, but on the whole there are a lot of front office moves Memphis has made in this generation that are really good.

However, it does seem like the group has plateaued, and that means that if whatever they decided to try next doesn't put them back into contender status, a blow up is likely coming.

I think the Ja question is the big one, and frankly it resembles the Luka question the Mavs had:

If you're disappointed with the work ethic and professionalism of your star, and he has major issues that you think will keep you from winning a title with him, how long do you stick with him?

Of course reasonable to say that Luka was way more accomplished, but a major throughline is the attachment of the fanbase. While Grizzlies fans have previously embraced a no-superstar team (Grit n' Grind), when you've been promoting a guy as your superstar for years, you need to be thinking about how fans will take it if you kick him to the curb.

Now in addition to Ja of course everyone is at a low in assessment right now and it's perfectly fine not to want to keep building around JJJ & Bane either. It's just that those are guys who can plausibly be expected to fit in as secondary stars whereas frankly, if Ja's not running your offense, why are you paying him the big bucks?

So I think Memphis needs to come to decisions specifically about Ja. If they decide to just keep rolling with Ja regardless of contender status because he's popular, that's not necessarily crazy for a small market, and if you're keeping Ja then I think the rest of the team largely makes sense around him.

If you move on from Ja, well, now there's a whole host of questions with too many possibilities to really know how it should play out.

[Outside]

Ja is a problem, for multiple reasons. He's small and relies on high-flying athleticism, so his durability is poor. This also means his game won't age well, his prime will be short, and his prime could end at any time due to a catastrophic injury.

He's a poor defender.

Perhaps worst of all, especially for a franchise cornerstone, is that he does what he wants to do behavior-wise regardless of the detriment to the team. That's all the offcourt stuff plus oncourt stuff like mimicking shooting guns (worse because of his offcourt issues with guns). I don't know all the details, but his dad appears to be a bad influence.

I thought JJJ was on a great trajectory, but when I've watched him this year, he spends way too much time on the perimeter, doesn't rebound like he should (5.6 RPG this season), and turns the ball over. He fouls. He doesn't even play 30 minutes per game. His blocks are at half of what they were two years ago. T-Rex arms Desmond Bane outrebounds him.

I like some of their other players. Their problem is with their two stars. This was a team that was supposed to be ascending to the top of the conference but has instead taken steps back.

[cupcakesnake]

I wonder who Grizzlies fans feel is their core around the big 3 of Ja/Bane/Trip.
- 2 promising (older) rookies in Zach Edey and Jaylen Wells that both started most of the season.
- Young vet important rotation players: Santi Aldama and Scottie Pippen Jr.
- Oft-injured rotation guys: Brandon Clarke and Vincent Williams Jr.
- The enigmatic GG Jackson.

That's 10 guys. 12 if you include Kennard and Konchar. This has long been one of the deepest teams in the league. Very young too. Clarke and Kennard are 28, everyone else is between 20-26.

The consensus seems to be that this team has peaked, but are we overreacting to their youth and injuries? A couple more seasons and that big 3 will be in their prime, and those rookies will possibly be much better players. I don't know... I think it's worth thinking about in the aftermath negativity of a disappointing season. I do see the legit concerns with this team.

[Ruma85]

I wonder who Grizzlies fans feel is their core around the big 3 of Ja/Bane/Trip.
- 2 promising (older) rookies in Zach Edey and Jaylen Wells that both started most of the season.
- Young vet important rotation players: Santi Aldama and Scottie Pippen Jr.
- Oft-injured rotation guys: Brandon Clarke and Vincent Williams Jr.
- The enigmatic GG Jackson.

That's 10 guys. 12 if you include Kennard and Konchar. This has long been one of the deepest teams in the league. Very young too. Clarke and Kennard are 28, everyone else is between 20-26.

The consensus seems to be that this team has peaked, but are we overreacting to their youth and injuries? A couple more seasons and that big 3 will be in their prime, and those rookies will possibly be much better players. I don't know... I think it's worth thinking about in the aftermath negativity of a disappointing season. I do see the legit concerns with this team.

Maybe I'm but then again, Ja misses too many games, Jackson is very soft, they had him dribbling 30 feet from the basket yesterday, why? Bane is hot & cold.

[ItsDanger]

Read on Twitter

Decline started when they dumped Laravia. Smart was often injured. A deep team ended up thin in playoffs.

Players have to adjust their games to improve. Bane:more shooting/less ball handling. Morant:more passing/less high risk plays. JJJ:more post possessions/less standing around.

Memphis has a cheap owner. That doesn't bode well.

[Chuck Everett]

Read on Twitter

Decline started when they dumped Laravia. Smart was often injured. A deep team ended up thin in playoffs.

Players have to adjust their games to improve. Bane:more shooting/less ball handling. Morant:more passing/less high risk plays. JJJ:more post possessions/less standing around.

Memphis has a cheap owner. That doesn't bode well.

And LaRavia was playing well for Memphis too.

[cupcakesnake]

I wonder who Grizzlies fans feel is their core around the big 3 of Ja/Bane/Trip.
- 2 promising (older) rookies in Zach Edey and Jaylen Wells that both started most of the season.
- Young vet important rotation players: Santi Aldama and Scottie Pippen Jr.
- Oft-injured rotation guys: Brandon Clarke and Vincent Williams Jr.
- The enigmatic GG Jackson.

That's 10 guys. 12 if you include Kennard and Konchar. This has long been one of the deepest teams in the league. Very young too. Clarke and Kennard are 28, everyone else is between 20-26.

The consensus seems to be that this team has peaked, but are we overreacting to their youth and injuries? A couple more seasons and that big 3 will be in their prime, and those rookies will possibly be much better players. I don't know... I think it's worth thinking about in the aftermath negativity of a disappointing season. I do see the legit concerns with this team.

Maybe I'm but then again, Ja misses too many games, Jackson is very soft, they had him dribbling 30 feet from the basket yesterday, why? Bane is hot & cold.

I see all the same stuff and don't disagree. It's just that... Trip is only 25, and just had a pretty big level up on offense this year. It's a reasonable expectation he keeps getting better into his late 20s. I think with this playoff performance, it's important to remember that Memphis fired their coach, scrapped their JJJ-ccentric offense, and then had to play arguably the best defense in the history of the NBA. I don't feel it's the cleanest evaluation. He's a divisive player. Lots to like (rim protection, spacing, and now a wicked driving floater game), lots to dislike (fouls, horrible rebounding, not a resilient scorer).

Ja's health is the biggest concern. It feels more likely to get worse than better due to his style of play. It's not like he's improved a lot either. Bane is fine depending on what you're looking for him role wise.

[facothomas22]

The Grizzlies are going have to retool the roster next year and it should include a JA Morant trade. JA Morant is not a 1st option on a contender and it's clear this core overall just isn't it. I would say maybe they could get Giannis, but very much doubt he would want to go there, so this basically leads to one solution A retool around Jaren Jackson Jr and maybe even trade him for major assets as well depending on his future commitment to the Grizzlies. It's not all bad for the Grizzlie as they have a good young pieces in Zack Edey and Jaylen Wells who I believe will develop above average good starters at some point, maybe even as early as next year depending on their development. Scottie Pippen Jr is also a good player to have off the bench.

[QMemphis]

Grizz need to figure our identity. We have 3 25/26 year old players we are not treadmill at least not yet. The key will be what Kleinman does this offseason.
-Will we stick with TI or go after Malone or Cassel
-Will we build around Ja/Jaren/Bane or will we trade one for flexibility and depth. (Outside chance of chasing KD)


Most important offseason in the franchise’s history.

[durden_tyler]

Key for me as well is what kind of coach this team will have. Offense was not the problem in the regular season.

[MemphisX]

I wonder who Grizzlies fans feel is their core around the big 3 of Ja/Bane/Trip.
- 2 promising (older) rookies in Zach Edey and Jaylen Wells that both started most of the season.
- Young vet important rotation players: Santi Aldama and Scottie Pippen Jr.
- Oft-injured rotation guys: Brandon Clarke and Vincent Williams Jr.
- The enigmatic GG Jackson.

That's 10 guys. 12 if you include Kennard and Konchar. This has long been one of the deepest teams in the league. Very young too. Clarke and Kennard are 28, everyone else is between 20-26.

The consensus seems to be that this team has peaked, but are we overreacting to their youth and injuries? A couple more seasons and that big 3 will be in their prime, and those rookies will possibly be much better players. I don't know... I think it's worth thinking about in the aftermath negativity of a disappointing season. I do see the legit concerns with this team.

There is no Big 3. There is Ja and Jaren. That is the nucleus. The GM is incompetent though, so it likely only gets worse from here if he does not get fired.

[SlimShady83]

Just a quick question would Mem trade edey?

I was thinking being Lakers fan, Knecht for Edey?
Unsure of contracts as I type this.

[cupcakesnake]

I wonder who Grizzlies fans feel is their core around the big 3 of Ja/Bane/Trip.
- 2 promising (older) rookies in Zach Edey and Jaylen Wells that both started most of the season.
- Young vet important rotation players: Santi Aldama and Scottie Pippen Jr.
- Oft-injured rotation guys: Brandon Clarke and Vincent Williams Jr.
- The enigmatic GG Jackson.

That's 10 guys. 12 if you include Kennard and Konchar. This has long been one of the deepest teams in the league. Very young too. Clarke and Kennard are 28, everyone else is between 20-26.

The consensus seems to be that this team has peaked, but are we overreacting to their youth and injuries? A couple more seasons and that big 3 will be in their prime, and those rookies will possibly be much better players. I don't know... I think it's worth thinking about in the aftermath negativity of a disappointing season. I do see the legit concerns with this team.

There is no Big 3. There is Ja and Jaren. That is the nucleus. The GM is incompetent though, so it likely only gets worse from here if he does not get fired.

Yeah at the end of the day it's a "big 3" made up of 2x top 30 guys- who can have a good season and be ranked a little higher than that. Then Bane is a top 50 guy. That doesn't compare well to contenders. It would be fine if one of them was an MVP type. Like OKC has Shai (top 3) with 2x top 30 guys (I ranked J.Dub above Ja AND Trip this year, but it's at least an argument. Healthy Chet could leapfrog em as well.) Cleveland has 3x top 30 guys (2 of them arguably top 10), and a 4th guy who flirts with that status. Boston is more built around depth like Memphis, but still has a top 5 guy, 2x top 40 guys, and 3 more guys who can give that kind of impact on any given night.

Even amongst the next tier of teams, the high end talent seems better than Memphis' does right now. Jokic, Giannis/Dame, Ant/Gobert, Luka/Lebron, Curry/Butler, Brunson, Kawhi/Harden/Zu all have more proven playoff ceilings, and Memphis can't even claim a big durability advantage over the old guys.

Memphis has nice depth, but the high end talent is hard to argue for.

[azcatz11]

Just a quick question would Mem trade edey?

I was thinking being Lakers fan, Knecht for Edey?
Unsure of contracts as I type this.

There is nothing special about Knecht. There is 0 chance they are trading Edey who made significant development for a bum like Knecht who is already in his mid 20's. Knecht is only 2 years younger than Luka he is old

[Clav]

Desmond Bane is out to the Magic

ORL sends
KCP
Cole Anthony
4 FRPs
1 swap

https://www.nba.com/news/magic-grizzlies-trade-bane-caldwell-pope