What if this player declared now?

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Imagine a lithuanian kid.
basically Jokic at the moment of the draft, similar strengths and weaknesses.
Where would he go now?

[OxAndFox]

#1 OKC is going to tank and ensure that get him. And they do. What is this play now?

[UcanUwill]

NBA is obviously a copy cat league, and draft guys always had comparison bumps, so the guy would have extra eyes on him, but it is hard to say, you have to give us more to go by. Jokic is one of one, but Jokic' lights that we keep hearing about, honestly I heard of one of those like every year, and nothing really happens of them.

Sengun was kinda similar to Jokic and he won Turkish league MVP at age 18, which excluding Doncic, has to be the greatest teenage Euro achievement of the past 25 years maybe, and I felt Sengun was still massively overlooked. He was mid first round pick tho. Continued Jokic success, and same Sengun success would probably bump the similar guy much more now, but as I said, what has that guy achieved, is he already getting minutes on strong Euro team, is he MVP, or is he burried guy who never plays? Funnily enough, that barely matters to some of these GMs sometimes, Bender never played, was complete bench warmer, and still went top 5 lol, so I don't know, maybe that doesn't even matter...

Jokic went to the league straight from Mega Leks, basically a farm team, so his success even to biggest Euro fans, was completely shocking. Guy like Dario Saric was far bigger youth star in Europe and he just became Dario Saric, NBA bench player. Trying to repeat Jokic success can be tried, but iit shouldn't overrun common sense since you chasing the impossible in my opinion.

But I feel Jokic and Doncic success made people look differently at these skilled, smart but less athletic players, 20 years ago they were written off far easier. 20 years ago no one even thought about giving Nikola Vujcic contract, they rather sign his teammate, Maceo Baston, which happened... now I think it would be different.

[Saints14]

16 to Portland

[Calvin Klein]

Serbia, Lithuania....it's all the same...

[Ryoga Hibiki]

NBA is obviously a copy cat league, and draft guys always had comparison bumps, so the guy would have extra eyes on him, but it is hard to say, you have to give us more to go by. Jokic is one of one, but Jokic' lights that we keep hearing about, honestly I heard of one of those like every year, and nothing really happens of them.

Sengun was kinda similar to Jokic and he won Turkish league MVP at age 18, which excluding Doncic, has to be the greatest teenage Euro achievement of the past 25 years maybe, and I felt Sengun was still massively overlooked. He was mid first round pick tho. Continued Jokic success, and same Sengun success would probably bump the similar guy much more now, but as I said, what has that guy achieved, is he already getting minutes on strong Euro team, is he MVP, or is he burried guy who never plays? Funnily enough, that barely matters to some of these GMs sometimes, Bender never played, was complete bench warmer, and still went top 5 lol, so I don't know, maybe that doesn't even matter...

Jokic went to the league straight from Mega Leks, basically a farm team, so his success even to biggest Euro fans, was completely shocking. Guy like Dario Saric was far bigger youth star in Europe and he just became Dario Saric, NBA bench player. Trying to repeat Jokic success can be tried, but iit shouldn't overrun common sense since you chasing the impossible in my opinion.

But I feel Jokic and Doncic success made people look differently at these skilled, smart but less athletic players, 20 years ago they were written off far easier. 20 years ago no one even thought about giving Nikola Vujcic contract, they rather sign his teammate, Maceo Baston, which happened... now I think it would be different.

the thing is that, the more I go back and research on his pre NBA career and first year, the more it looks to me that the writing was on the wall but people just couldn't believe their eyes as there was not a comparison they could anchor themselves to.
I remember there was an interview in yt of him at the Hoop Summit, and Serbian commenter wrote something like "Denver made a steal, you don't understand what kind of a dominator this guys is". The comment was made just after the draft.
While there were similarities, Alpi was not Jokic. Smaller, more athletic, not that same totally outlier touch and vision.

[jpengland]

There’s an in built euro-scepticism that has to be overcome.

Look at Luka. He was clearly, clearly, clearly the best player in that draft and a generational talent. Yet people didn’t (and I’d argue still don’t) want to believe how good he was. Teams should have been tanking and fighting over the number one pick.

[UcanUwill]

NBA is obviously a copy cat league, and draft guys always had comparison bumps, so the guy would have extra eyes on him, but it is hard to say, you have to give us more to go by. Jokic is one of one, but Jokic' lights that we keep hearing about, honestly I heard of one of those like every year, and nothing really happens of them.

Sengun was kinda similar to Jokic and he won Turkish league MVP at age 18, which excluding Doncic, has to be the greatest teenage Euro achievement of the past 25 years maybe, and I felt Sengun was still massively overlooked. He was mid first round pick tho. Continued Jokic success, and same Sengun success would probably bump the similar guy much more now, but as I said, what has that guy achieved, is he already getting minutes on strong Euro team, is he MVP, or is he burried guy who never plays? Funnily enough, that barely matters to some of these GMs sometimes, Bender never played, was complete bench warmer, and still went top 5 lol, so I don't know, maybe that doesn't even matter...

Jokic went to the league straight from Mega Leks, basically a farm team, so his success even to biggest Euro fans, was completely shocking. Guy like Dario Saric was far bigger youth star in Europe and he just became Dario Saric, NBA bench player. Trying to repeat Jokic success can be tried, but iit shouldn't overrun common sense since you chasing the impossible in my opinion.

But I feel Jokic and Doncic success made people look differently at these skilled, smart but less athletic players, 20 years ago they were written off far easier. 20 years ago no one even thought about giving Nikola Vujcic contract, they rather sign his teammate, Maceo Baston, which happened... now I think it would be different.

the thing is that, the more I go back and research on his pre NBA career and first year, the more it looks to me that the writing was on the wall but people just couldn't believe their eyes as there was not a comparison they could anchor themselves to.
I remember there was an interview in yt of him at the Hoop Summit, and Serbian commenter wrote something like "Denver made a steal, you don't understand what kind of a dominator this guys is". The comment was made just after the draft.
While there were similarities, Alpi was not Jokic. Smaller, more athletic, not that same totally outlier touch and vision.

Maybe, but it is easy to act smart now. I think the writing was more clear the year after they drafted him. Remember that they drafted him and stashed him and then he won ABA MVM. I remember writing that its obvious now they got a steal, but this was after the draft. But ABA has young teams like Mega leks with players who won MVPs at very young ages there, but never really amounted of much afterwards, so it is still really hard to be certain with such guys. And you never know for sure, not like he was Doncic, but Alexis Ajinca was so good in Euroleague that one year, he got his second NBA chance with Pelicans straight after, and I was certain Ajinca will be great, and it still did not happen, he played completely differently in the NBA, not like his strengths didn't pan out, he just played different game like he was afraid. So I can never know for sure.

Serbia, Lithuania....it's all the same...

Pretty sure he knows Jokic is Serbian, he just said - imagine guy similar to Jokic from strong basketball Euro country. I think he knows the difference between our countries, especially considering his signature.

[Devilanche]

Whichever pick that dumars managed to get by selling unprotected future first obviously.

[UcanUwill]

There’s an in built euro-scepticism that has to be overcome.

Look at Luka. He was clearly, clearly, clearly the best player in that draft and a generational talent. Yet people didn’t (and I’d argue still don’t) want to believe how good he was. Teams should have been tanking and fighting over the number one pick.

But even then, I am huge Euro fan, and Luka was amazing for his age, but man, it was still hard to believe his ultimate ceiling, because limitations were there, and before him, we really did not have superstars of his profile. All recent perimeter SUperstaras were guys like Kobe, Bron, TMac, etc... Remember my first comparison of him, on record here was Even Turner with a better jumpshot. But he was 15 at a time. My final written comparison for him before draft was Paul Pierce. And I mean it is good, but I was also more optimistic than usual, it is really incredible who Luka Doncic has become.

But yeah, we should have seen in coming, because I remember reealGM debates for years. Every year there were guys who said Luka peaked, where will he go from here. When he was 16 playing real minutes for Real, it was, well his body is already developed, thats why he is further along than other 16 year olds, dude will catch up to him. And every season he came into it significantly improved, he went from end of bench guy to league MVP in 3 years, but every season we had dudes who argued he is peaked, he is early bloomer, he is nothing special. Like, were he can go from here, but we all saw where he went...

[gavran]

Can I imagine him being Gagauz instead?

[SimonFish]

Serbia, Lithuania....it's all the same...

American geography checks out

Sent from my ASUS_AI2401_H using RealGM mobile app

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Maybe, but it is easy to act smart now. I think the writing was more clear the year after they drafted him. Remember that they drafted him and stashed him and then he won ABA MVM. I remember writing that its obvious now they got a steal, but this was after the draft. But ABA has young teams like Mega leks with players who won MVPs at very young ages there, but never really amounted of much afterwards, so it is still really hard to be certain with such guys. And you never know for sure, not like he was Doncic, but Alexis Ajinca was so good in Euroleague that one year, he got his second NBA chance with Pelicans straight after, and I was certain Ajinca will be great, and it still did not happen, he played completely differently in the NBA, not like his strengths didn't pan out, he just played different game like he was afraid. So I can never know for sure.

not trying to be smart, just saying that, using hindsight, it was all there.
during his rookie season I didn't pay enough attention, but if you look at some of his old games now you see the same player.
even what I could find of his Mega time, he was clearly an outlier. It's not about being generically "good", like AA, but what skills you're flashing.
and now I am reading Singer's book, it's almost comical how people were seeing all the good things but couldn't put everything together.
my point is that we all had so many biases that we just were not believing our eyes because there was no real comparison that allowed us to imagine the final product.
but how would we react now that we have Jokic? Enough to pick such guy top5 in 2014 (2015 is a different story, he would have been a lottery pick, most likely)?
it reminds me the discussion we were having about Giannis here, in like 2015: everyone knew he was talented, but could a non center without a jumpshot become a MVP level offensive player?

Serbia, Lithuania....it's all the same...

Pretty sure he knows Jokic is Serbian, he just said - imagine guy similar to Jokic from strong basketball Euro country. I think he knows the difference between our countries, especially considering his signature.

I mean, I live in Poland, I must know where Serbia and Lithuania are, lol.
But the point was not to build too much of a direct comparison.

[UcanUwill]

Maybe, but it is easy to act smart now. I think the writing was more clear the year after they drafted him. Remember that they drafted him and stashed him and then he won ABA MVM. I remember writing that its obvious now they got a steal, but this was after the draft. But ABA has young teams like Mega leks with players who won MVPs at very young ages there, but never really amounted of much afterwards, so it is still really hard to be certain with such guys. And you never know for sure, not like he was Doncic, but Alexis Ajinca was so good in Euroleague that one year, he got his second NBA chance with Pelicans straight after, and I was certain Ajinca will be great, and it still did not happen, he played completely differently in the NBA, not like his strengths didn't pan out, he just played different game like he was afraid. So I can never know for sure.

not trying to be smart, just saying that, using hindsight, it was all there.
during his rookie season I didn't pay enough attention, but if you look at some his games now you see the same player.
even what I could find of his Mega time, he was clearly an outlier. It's not about being generically "good", like AA, but what skills your flashing.
and now I am reading Singer's book, it's almost comical how people were seeing all the good things but couldn't put everything together.
my point is that we all had so many biases that we just were not believing our eyes because there was no real comparison that allowed us to imagine the final product.
but how would we react now that we have Jokic? Enough to pick such guy top5 in 2014 (2015 is a different story, he would have been a lottery pick, most likely)?
it reminds me the discussion we were having about Giannis here, in like 2015: everyone knew he was talented, but could a a non center without a jumpshot become a MVP level offensive player?

Serbia, Lithuania....it's all the same...

Pretty sure he knows Jokic is Serbian, he just said - imagine guy similar to Jokic from strong basketball Euro country. I think he knows the difference between our countries, especially considering his signature.

I mean, I live in Poland, I must know were Serbia and Lithuania are, lol.
But the point is not build too much of direct comparison.

I never knew you live in Poland. Poles make great video games.

I think we would react differently for sure, because there is now proof that this can work. With Jokic, it was not even not believing your eyes, its just that ultra belief that NBA is totally different and that stuff just wouldn't work against ''superior athletes''. Same was said with Luka, won't work against Kawhis of this world... Well, not quite... So yeah, we would react differently.

Since Bird retired, we kind off forget that these guys do work at highest level, I remember on Raptors forum, circa 2010, so assumingly young clown said Bird would be bench player today (2010). I think now even 15 year olds of this world can understand all over again that guys like Bird were good, cause Jokic and Luka are good.