The problem with guaranteed contracts

[Invictus88]

I think 4-8 hours is an exaggeration, but studies have shown that a significant portion of the work week is not devoted to actual work.

A majority of my corporate accounting career was jobs that were maybe two hours most days.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

I'm guessing that was the type of job where there were few people who could actually provide oversight for what you were doing.

More like layers and layers of management ineptitude.

[RRyder823]

I could be wrong but I don’t think there is any obligation to give guaranteed contracts. We see partial/non guaranteed contracts quite a bit. Seems more of a standard practice than a requirement.

That's cause there isnt.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Sure, teams can sign non-guaranteed contracts, but you're ignoring the fact that all non or partially guaranteed contracts become fully guaranteed halfway through the season.

I mean so?

Even in the NFL base salary becomes fully guaranteed if you're on the roster week 1 for all players

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[D.Brasco]

LeBron signed a 100 million shoe deal with Nike at 18 before he ever stepped on an NBA court and still decided to play 22 seasons in the NBA after that. This is a Lance issue, not a guaranteed money one.

[bkkrh]

Yeah, and loads of guys who play to their contract or better. Lance Stephenson was just a dude who wanted to get paid. He had all kinds of attitude issues to begin with, we knew that during his career. He's not telling us anything we didn't need to know.

But it hasn't stopped lots of guys from being worth their deals. It's not an issue with guaranteed contracts, it's an issue with some players.

I think it will become more and more a topic since salaries continue to increase. At this point you are basically set for life if you get drafted in the first round and sign your rookie contract. The 30th pick of this years draft will make 14 Million over 4 years, or at least 5.6 Million over 2 seasons if the team doesn´t use his team options. This is a pick range where you aren´t even sure if the player will be anything more than a bench warmer and he will earn in his 4th season around the same amount than the current taxpayer MLE, which teams use to sign starters and significant role players.

In comparsion, Cooper Flagg will make 62 Million over his first 4 seasons. Let´s say he turns out to be a complete bust, he´d still have earned more money than a lot former superstars did during their whole career. Just to point out how extreme this is, in his 4th season his salary will be 19.1 Million. Steve Nash´s highest salary ever in the league was 13.1 Million, Tony Parker got 15.4 Million and that was in his 2nd last season, Rondo 14 Million, Chauncey Billups 13.1 Million. Players with really long and very successful careers that got contract extensions at a time they were star players on their teams and during a time period the league was probably more popular and relevant than today.

Jayson Tatum has earned 155 Million until now and will be at 469 Million when his current contract ends, he´ll be 32 by then. Let´s say he continues to have injuries and never fully recovers. I see it as pretty realistic that he might just reach a point where he says "You know what, I could push myself to play a few more years, but I think I´m fine with retiring."

Comparing that with the early to mid 90s, players were still earning a lot of money and were Millionaires. Just that almost nobody was earning more than 3-4 Million per season and those were mostly superstars. So there was definitely a motivation to have a long career, even if I´m just a role player and secure another 4 to 5 year contract in my early 30s, because those additional 10 Million will have a big impact on the rest of my life.

The question now is just if this a good or a bad thing, here I´m torn myself. On one side I see the NBA as being too greedy and focused on money in general, especially considering the from European perspective absolutely ridiculous prices fans have to pay for tickets. On the other side I also prefer a league where players that are just in it for the money probably are retiring earlier because vet minimum deals aren´t attractive to them based on what they already have earned to this point. From a human perspective I´m definitely for enabling players to decide at any time to pursue a different career like AJ Griffin if they figure out that the NBA lifestyle isn´t really the right fit for them any more.

.

2 thinghs i would add as a consideration

Are those salary comparisions accounting for inflation?

Are you considering international viewers and non cable watching fans when you say the league is less popular now?

Not that i think it changes your point about players making more money now, but i doubt players retiring early after making their money will become a problem

That doesnt even happen much in nfl where the benefits of retiring early to protect body and brain are bigger (andrew luck is a exception to the rule) let alone in nba where the sport is less dangerous and doesnt let the same degree of lasting physical ailments

Yes inflation plays a role, but not for the way the salaries rise in the NBA. If you look at this graph you will see that NBA player salaries in 2022 were almost 10x higher than in 1991. And until 95-96 there were no Rookie Contracts, as well as no D-League until 00-01. And this was 2022, since then the numbers went higher. Currently the salary cap increases 10% per season.

Related to international success, that´s why I specifically named players like Parker, or Nash, so players that came into the league when it was already internationally successful and that had long careers during a period where China became a big market, the Internet became a global thing, the league pass was around and NBA 2K become a big thing. I get that it´s of course based on the CBA and TV contracts and that those guys just had bad luck to not be born 10 years later, but it shows how much salaries really have imploded when a solid starter might earn almost the double amount of a former league MVP ever did, who was still around a decade ago.

About the health issues, first injuries that impact your ability to walk are pretty common. Also, we are at a point where we a few of the current young players will hit the billion dollar salary mark. Just to go with Cooper Flagg again.

As the No. 1 overall pick in the 2025 NBA Draft, Flagg's rookie contract will be a four-year, $62.7 million deal. If he meets the criteria to earn a supermax at the end of that contract, Flagg can receive a five-year, $359 million deal for his second contract

That´s 422 Million after his first extension, when he will be 26. The he can sign a full extension for the first time, so if he is a max player, he will be way over a billion when he is 31. And this number is continue to go up each draft class. So I´m sure there will come a point where somebody will just go, why should I still play, I can buy a small country if I want.

[Laimbeer]

I think 4-8 hours is an exaggeration, but studies have shown that a significant portion of the work week is not devoted to actual work.

A majority of my corporate accounting career was jobs that were maybe two hours most days.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

I'm guessing that was the type of job where there were few people who could actually provide oversight for what you were doing.

I had direct supervisors who were aware of and approved most of what I did. They either didn't realize how little time it took, or, more likely, didn't care so long as what needed to be done got done.

Think about it. If you're making six figures supervising six or eight people who pretty much keep the place running as needed you aren't going to grab a stopwatch and rock the boat.

I'm sure there are other places that are much busier. My impression is manufacturing accounting (my field) is one of the slower ones.

[xdrta+]

That's cause there isnt.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Sure, teams can sign non-guaranteed contracts, but you're ignoring the fact that all non or partially guaranteed contracts become fully guaranteed halfway through the season.

I mean so?

Even in the NFL base salary becomes fully guaranteed if you're on the roster week 1 for all players

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

So? So what's the big deal about non-guaranteed salaries?

[ForeverTFC]

Guaranteed contracts suck for teams but they’re clearly here to stay. The union is never giving that one up

Nothing in the CBA says contracts have to be guaranteed other than the first 3 years for a rookie scale deal. The high % of guaranteed contracts in the NBA is a result of player/agent and team negotiations, not union negotiations.

[Sixers in 4]

The money wouldn't change regardless but guarnteed contracts are here to stay because the stars run the league and they would revolt if it were changed

[Johnny Fontane]

Guaranteed contracts suck for teams but they’re clearly here to stay. The union is never giving that one up

Nothing in the CBA says contracts have to be guaranteed other than the first 3 years for a rookie scale deal. The high % of guaranteed contracts in the NBA is a result of player/agent and team negotiations, not union negotiations.

Let’s get real the majority of contracts are guaranteed. In the next cba, owners could try and push for clauses that favor teams when it comes to guaranteed deals. Union would push back on any of these efforts

[ForeverTFC]

Guaranteed contracts suck for teams but they’re clearly here to stay. The union is never giving that one up

Nothing in the CBA says contracts have to be guaranteed other than the first 3 years for a rookie scale deal. The high % of guaranteed contracts in the NBA is a result of player/agent and team negotiations, not union negotiations.

Let’s get real the majority of contracts are guaranteed. In the next cba, owners could try and push for clauses that favor teams when it comes to guaranteed deals. Union would push back on any of these efforts

What exactly would the owners push for? Under the CBA, there is no requirement for a guaranteed contract. Every team can give out unguaranteed contracts. Short of making guaranteed contracts illegal, there is nothing they could do. You should do some readings and research to inform your takes and opinions.

[Johnny Fontane]

Nothing in the CBA says contracts have to be guaranteed other than the first 3 years for a rookie scale deal. The high % of guaranteed contracts in the NBA is a result of player/agent and team negotiations, not union negotiations.

Let’s get real the majority of contracts are guaranteed. In the next cba, owners could try and push for clauses that favor teams when it comes to guaranteed deals. Union would push back on any of these efforts

What exactly would the owners push for? Under the CBA, there is no requirement for a guaranteed contract. Every team can give out unguaranteed contracts. Short of making guaranteed contracts illegal, there is nothing they could do. You should do some readings and research to inform your takes and opinions.

The hell? Show me where non guaranteed contracts are a prominent thing in this league. They’re incredibly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

[ForeverTFC]

Let’s get real the majority of contracts are guaranteed. In the next cba, owners could try and push for clauses that favor teams when it comes to guaranteed deals. Union would push back on any of these efforts

What exactly would the owners push for? Under the CBA, there is no requirement for a guaranteed contract. Every team can give out unguaranteed contracts. Short of making guaranteed contracts illegal, there is nothing they could do. You should do some readings and research to inform your takes and opinions.

The hell? Show me where non guaranteed contracts are a prominent thing in this league. They’re incredibly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

Prevalent and permitted are 2 different things. You keep talking about the union and the CBA as drivers of fully guaranteed contracts when that's just not correct. This is not the NHL or MLB where contracts have to be guaranteed. An NBA team can offer a stack of 1 year club options, essentially making the deal unguaranteed. Yes, the CBA stipulates a guarantee date for any given year, has injury protections, and a cap floor which take away some of the benefits of an unguaranteed contract, but that's not the primary driver.

The primary driver of why the NFL has so much unguaranteed money vs the NBA comes down to 2 factors:
1. The NBA dresses 15 players vs 53 players in the NFL -> each player minute matters more in the NBA and teams will compete with each other for the best minutes driving guarantees to everyone outside the bench warmers -> the MARKET drives guarantees, not the CBA/Union
2. The NFL owners have made it a priority to keep an asinine escrow rule on the books that requires them to put all guaranteed dollars of the contract in escrow when the contract is signed and use it as reason for why they can't guarantee contracts fully for even their very best players who drive outsized impact --> the NFL MANIPULATES the market through its CBA, giving owners cover for their collusion

So a) guaranteed contracts are the norm not the exception in professional sports and b) the NBA CBA (unlike the NHL And MLB) does not force guaranteed contracts, competition between the franchises is the driver.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

As a Magic fan, I’ve watched my fair share of players get paid and then lose any desire to show up and at least try. I am really hoping that we don’t have to deal with that from Suggs, F. Wagner, Bane, and Banchero. It truly sucks watching players who are only their for a paycheck.

[brutalitops]

Billionaires should be able to disrupt an athletes earnings and life because a player for the colour shirts I support eventually got burnout

The thread. Americans and the slaveowners mentality is undefeated.

[brutalitops]

It truly sucks watching players who are only their for a paycheck.

Players should only play for love of the owners

Also. This isn't a communist country. The market dictates if you don't enjoy you can simply turn it off or support a stronger performing franchise.

[brutalitops]

all I'm saying is if you going to the worksite just because of the money, it's not a good thing for the worksite

My boss said this to me once when I asked him to be paid more for looking after two projects instead of one and I asked to be paid accordingly.

[Ruma85]

all I'm saying is if you going to the worksite just because of the money, it's not a good thing for the worksite

My boss said this to me once when I asked him to be paid more for looking after two projects instead of one and I asked to be paid accordingly.

& did you get paid accordingly?

[ORLMagicGirl15]

It truly sucks watching players who are only their for a paycheck.

Players should only play for love of the owners

Also. This isn't a communist country. The market dictates if you don't enjoy you can simply turn it off or support a stronger performing franchise.

The team signed them for their production, they get paid and don’t produce. That is not enjoyable basketball and the player don’t even do their job.

As for support, not everyone run to a different franchise simply because a team has a down year (or 12). Around that time I watched whatever national games were available, but I had no emotional connection to any other team. Also, my comment was about watching players that didn’t want to be there, not the team as a whole.

[RRyder823]

Billionaires should be able to disrupt an athletes earnings and life because a player for the colour shirts I support eventually got burnout

The thread. Americans and the slaveowners mentality is undefeated.

oh jesus **** christ give the slave owners **** a rest.

As for the 1st part im kinda suprised someone would type that thinking they made a point worth making but considering you followed it up trying with the slave owner comment im not suprised

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[JonFromVA]

Part of a GM's job is identifying players motivated by more than money. In a sense, it's just another competitive differentiator between teams.

As fans we don't know a lot of about that end of the business. For instance when the Cavs traded for Mitchell, a lot of people just assumed he was biding his time until he was traded again or could leave on his own for NYC - but I couldn't imagine the Cavs taking that kind of risk on Don without knowing something directly or indirectly about his goals.