Where Jonathan Kuminga ends ?

[mkot]

If the rumor of the Warriors demanding the 2030 1st round pick be unprotected is true, it's time for the Kings to say it's your mess not mine and walk away from the table. It's bottom line not negotiating in good faith from Warriors side. Monk and a 2030 lottery protected first or the worse of the 2031 Kings/Spurs first is already the best deal for Kuminga in the current market, it's Monk and a guaranteed first.

Not just folding and accepting Sacramento’s offer is bad faith negotiating?

What is the competition? That's right, there's no competition. Kuminga is just a piece for the Kings to take a chance and stay relevant in the West, they should not overpay.

[Capn'O]

If the rumor of the Warriors demanding the 2030 1st round pick be unprotected is true, it's time for the Kings to say it's your mess not mine and walk away from the table. It's bottom line not negotiating in good faith from Warriors side. Monk and a 2030 lottery protected first or the worse of the 2031 Kings/Spurs first is already the best deal for Kuminga in the current market, it's Monk and a guaranteed first.

Just go top 8 and move on.

[CS707]

If the rumor of the Warriors demanding the 2030 1st round pick be unprotected is true, it's time for the Kings to say it's your mess not mine and walk away from the table. It's bottom line not negotiating in good faith from Warriors side. Monk and a 2030 lottery protected first or the worse of the 2031 Kings/Spurs first is already the best deal for Kuminga in the current market, it's Monk and a guaranteed first.

Not just folding and accepting Sacramento’s offer is bad faith negotiating?

What is the competition? That's right, there's no competition. Kuminga is just a piece for the Kings to take a chance and stay relevant in the West, they should not overpay.

That’s not bad faith negotiating. There just isn’t a deal to be made.

[mkot]

Not just folding and accepting Sacramento’s offer is bad faith negotiating?

What is the competition? That's right, there's no competition. Kuminga is just a piece for the Kings to take a chance and stay relevant in the West, they should not overpay.

That’s not bad faith negotiating. There just isn’t a deal to be made.

The Warriors are being unreasonable in the Kings perspective. The Kings already up their offer and are bidding against no one, and they are not contending, so if Monk and a guaranteed first isn't enough then just let the Warriors keep Kuminga. Like I said it's the Warriors's mess not theirs. I actually think having Kuminga might force them to make a decision on DeRozan who doesn't seem to have a market as of today and might need to attach a pick or a player to get rid of.

[ClutchUp]

What is the competition? That's right, there's no competition. Kuminga is just a piece for the Kings to take a chance and stay relevant in the West, they should not overpay.

That’s not bad faith negotiating. There just isn’t a deal to be made.

The Warriors are being unreasonable in the Kings perspective. The Kings already up their offer and are bidding against no one, and they are not contending, so if Monk and a guaranteed first isn't enough then just let the Warriors keep Kuminga. Like I said it's the Warriors's mess not theirs. I actually think having Kuminga might force them to make a decision on DeRozan who doesn't seem to have a market as of today and might need to attach a pick or a player to get rid of.

It's not a guaranteed first if it's lottery protected.

[mkot]

That’s not bad faith negotiating. There just isn’t a deal to be made.

The Warriors are being unreasonable in the Kings perspective. The Kings already up their offer and are bidding against no one, and they are not contending, so if Monk and a guaranteed first isn't enough then just let the Warriors keep Kuminga. Like I said it's the Warriors's mess not theirs. I actually think having Kuminga might force them to make a decision on DeRozan who doesn't seem to have a market as of today and might need to attach a pick or a player to get rid of.

It's not a guaranteed first if it's lottery protected.

If it doesn't convey in 2030 the Warriors will get the worse of the 2031 Kings or Spurs first. It IS guaranteed.

[DB23]

I don’t think that’s fully accurate. The warriors system IS harder to play than what young nba players are used to. I challenge you to go on the AAU circuit and show me teams running anything resembling the warriors offense. I can show you tons that look like Oklahoma City, Detroit, Boston. There are more reads that need to be made.

1.The high post split is totally foreign as these kids don’t even make post entry passes,

2. Guards barely screen, and curry sets over 6 screens a game.

3. Players are more accustomed to the 4 man being aggressive rather than a primary playmaker.

There’s way more in terms of curry’s off ball movement that doesn’t happen on other teams, but I feel that’s obvious for anyone on this site

I agree it’s different. But it’s just a weird misconception that young talent can’t play or thrive in it.

Fact is the warriors young talent has sucked. You can’t even name one player that thrived elsewhere. Conversely you can name several who disappeared after they left.

Can you imagine saying that young Kobe couldn’t make an impact on the court because of the system? Well that’s who kuminga thinks he is but he’s never shown anything remotely close ounce of it on the court.

I’m happy he shot well against the wolves in those blowouts though. He’d be worthless otherwise.

Donte DiVincenzo and Ty Jerome

The system for a players do matter Nuggests also had many players who fell off post Denver runs.

The Warriors offense requires players who are fast processors of the game. Kuminga was drafted as project who they knew had to develop wasn't known as a quick thinker, but a athlete with great tools.

Not quite the guy you would want if i could pick one rookie who would fit what they are trying to do Walter Clayton would be one. I would think is prospect who processes the game quickly.

Both played fine on the dubs.

Actually you could say Kerr gave Jerome a chance when everyone else thought he sucked. Certainly warriors fans didn’t want to play him and skewered Kerr every time he was on the court.

Also hardly holding back all stars with that example.

[DB23]

I don't get it either. How are guys like Poole, McCaw and Baldwin indictments of Kerr? They had their best seasons in Golden State. Baldwin hasn't done jack sh*t and he's played more outside of GSW than in. Why aren't the Wizards of Clippers getting blamed on Baldwin not working out? Poole had one of the worst seasons of all-time his first year in a different system (WAS). McCaw sucked in his 3 years in TOR, a team known for their player development.

Who has left GSW and gotten better? Shouldn't it be easier for these guys outside of GSW's "complicated" system? Of is it far more likely they are just bad players?

Yeah, that's my point. People love attacking Kerr but they can't name a single player who got much better after leaving GSW. Most of the time they drop off.

I think Kuminga might be one of the few guys who could look better, just not a ton. He's a perfect guy to put up a bunch of points on a losing team and have people say "see, Kerr stifled him". If given a consistent role, he'll improve some of course -- but he could not earn that on a good playoff team right now.

This is more like a souped up Harrison Barnes situation.

Not that Barnes got a ton "better" elsewhere but he got a more consistent role and has ultimately developed into a player who can help a team. I have no doubt JK could consistently put up 20.

I’m sure he could too on a losing team. On terrible efficiency.

Honestly he’s such a kings style player it’s a match made in heaven. Empty stats, no chance of success.

[DonaldSanders]

What is the competition? That's right, there's no competition. Kuminga is just a piece for the Kings to take a chance and stay relevant in the West, they should not overpay.

That’s not bad faith negotiating. There just isn’t a deal to be made.

The Warriors are being unreasonable in the Kings perspective. The Kings already up their offer and are bidding against no one, and they are not contending, so if Monk and a guaranteed first isn't enough then just let the Warriors keep Kuminga. Like I said it's the Warriors's mess not theirs. I actually think having Kuminga might force them to make a decision on DeRozan who doesn't seem to have a market as of today and might need to attach a pick or a player to get rid of.

The issue really is the current S&T rules. The Warriors can get better value later during the season, so I'd rank the options like this:

1) S&T during the season when the Warriors can get matching salary back, without having to send out Moody or Hield. This gives the Warriors the best roster to contend in the short window that Curry/Butler/Green have (if at all possible).

2) S&T now, where the Warriors main value is getting an unprotected, or lightly protected pick. The Warriors can get some usage from Monk, but the real need is 3&D players, emphasis on the 3. Monk does not shoot the 3 well, and the Warriors would have to send out Moody or Hield, both of which fit the already thin need that the Warriors have.

3) QO. Trying to get the best option, the Warriors are indeed playing a dangerous game. But it's not the worst option.

4) Take a S&T now for a lotto protected pick where the Warriors lose a player (Hield or Moody) in a role that's already too light on players. Warriors get a weak pick, and worsen their chances of contending. And again it's not a knock on Monk, it's that the Warriors get lighter on their biggest need.

So this is why the Warriors are not going along with the Kings' trade. If the Warriors are going to lower their chance at contending, it needs to be for a real future asset that they either can use to rebuild someday, or strengthen the team now. To me JK taking the QO is better than option #4, and it make sense the Warriors are holding out for scenario #1 or #2.

[mkot]

The issue really is the current S&T rules. The Warriors can get better value later during the season, so I'd rank the options like this:

1) S&T during the season when the Warriors can get matching salary back, without having to send out Moody or Hield. This gives the Warriors the best roster to contend in the short window that Curry/Butler/Green have (if at all possible).

2) S&T now, where the Warriors main value is getting an unprotected, or lightly protected pick. The Warriors can get some usage from Monk, but the real need is 3&D players, emphasis on the 3. Monk does not shoot the 3 well, and the Warriors would have to send out Moody or Hield, both of which fit the already thin need that the Warriors have.

3) QO. Trying to get the best option, the Warriors are indeed playing a dangerous game. But it's not the worst option.

4) Take a S&T now for a lotto protected pick where the Warriors lose a player (Hield or Moody) in a role that's already too light on players. Warriors get a weak pick, and worsen their chances of contending. And again it's not a knock on Monk, it's that the Warriors get lighter on their biggest need.

So this is why the Warriors are not going along with the Kings' trade. If the Warriors are going to lower their chance at contending, it needs to be for a real future asset that they either can use to rebuild someday, or strengthen the team now. To me JK taking the QO is better than option #4, and it make sense the Warriors are holding out for scenario #1 or #2.

That's why I'd rather have the Warriors keeping Kuminga and the Kings standing pat. If the trade go through the Warriors would have to send out one of Hield or Moody to avoid the apron, and the Kings would need to make a decision on DeRozan as they promised him a starting role, which would not be possible if they landed Kuminga. DeRozan is on a reasonable contract but he is a 35yr old one dimensional mid range scorer, the Kings might need to give up some asset to find a taker, which isn't helpful for their situation as they are trying to stay above water in the West while retooling after the Fox era. I just don't see Kuminga as a fit or a missing piece for them making the play-in? Just not worth it from the Kings stand point.

Most people say the QO is the worse case scenario for the Warriors, but as of today, is it tho? There might be better option before the deadline as teams will seek to make "desperate" playoff moves or tanking moves. Clearly, as things stand right now, no team is willing to give the Warriors a win now player or a lottery pick for a disgruntle star wanna be, just move on and wait it out if there's no deal to be made.

[Lockdown504090]

I agree it’s different. But it’s just a weird misconception that young talent can’t play or thrive in it.

Fact is the warriors young talent has sucked. You can’t even name one player that thrived elsewhere. Conversely you can name several who disappeared after they left.

Can you imagine saying that young Kobe couldn’t make an impact on the court because of the system? Well that’s who kuminga thinks he is but he’s never shown anything remotely close ounce of it on the court.

I’m happy he shot well against the wolves in those blowouts though. He’d be worthless otherwise.

Donte DiVincenzo and Ty Jerome

The system for a players do matter Nuggests also had many players who fell off post Denver runs.

The Warriors offense requires players who are fast processors of the game. Kuminga was drafted as project who they knew had to develop wasn't known as a quick thinker, but a athlete with great tools.

Not quite the guy you would want if i could pick one rookie who would fit what they are trying to do Walter Clayton would be one. I would think is prospect who processes the game quickly.

Both played fine on the dubs.

Actually you could say Kerr gave Jerome a chance when everyone else thought he sucked. Certainly warriors fans didn’t want to play him and skewered Kerr every time he was on the court.

Also hardly holding back all stars with that example.

look at the reasons why kuminga doesnt get the minutes/touches he wants and compare it to other small forwards/power forwards. How many people at the position are shaky shooters, struggling defensively, will never be good passers and arent rebounding well for their position?

[Mamba81p]

If the rumor of the Warriors demanding the 2030 1st round pick be unprotected is true, it's time for the Kings to say it's your mess not mine and walk away from the table. It's bottom line not negotiating in good faith from Warriors side. Monk and a 2030 lottery protected first or the worse of the 2031 Kings/Spurs first is already the best deal for Kuminga in the current market, it's Monk and a guaranteed first.

Not just folding and accepting Sacramento’s offer is bad faith negotiating?

What is the competition? That's right, there's no competition. Kuminga is just a piece for the Kings to take a chance and stay relevant in the West, they should not overpay.

The competition is that the warriors can keep him for 1 more year. I believe the issue is monk's contract. We have no inside information about why warriors will not take this offer but taking monk presents a problem. It will put them over the first apron and he has 2 seasons left on his contract. In the current cba I think monk is a bad contract.