Does 2025 Giannis have a case over 2025 Wemby?

[Infinite Llamas]

Giannis will always be good enough to defend Wembanyama, whereas I don't see any way for Wembanyama to defend Giannis.

I mean, I rank Giannis higher now but Victor not being able to guard Giannis is a fallacy.

[1993Playoffs]

Insane thread

[Top10alltime]

But Wembanyama only averaged 9.9 2-point attempts last season, so he's accurate because he's only attempting the easy 2-pointers.
Whereas Giannis averaged 18.7 2-point attempts last season.

As for playmaking, Giannis has averaged 6.0 assists per game for the last SIX years.
Wembanyama averaged 3.7 assists in 2024-25 and 3.9 assists in his rookie season.
Will Wembanyama ever average 6.0 assists, even for one season?
Seems a long way off...

Wemby still is more efficient across the floor, and similar in transition (Giannis strong point). Sure, Giannis volume makes him a better scorer, but it's still close. Plus Wemby has more counters than finishing only

And I wasn't talking about assists. (Although Giannis and Wemby both have same amount of rim AST so that's something). I was talking about Giannis passing counter on the basketball court. Giannis only has drive & kick. I don't think that will be good enough to make a significant gap.

And on the other end of the floor, Wembanyama absolutely clears Giannis. Giannis at best is still below Wemby.

Giannis made .620 of his 2-pointers last season, and has shot over .640 twice in his career.
Wembanyama made .586 of his 2-pointers last season.

If Wembanyama has more counters why is he settling for juvenile 3-pointers always?
The proof is in the pudding, so either he starts playing manly like Giannis or he stays on the perimeter...

I get the impression Wembanyama is afraid of contact, and he knows his body won't survive the paint.
That's why I never expect much from the tallest players in the NBA, and why I don't expect much of a career for Wembanyama.

Drive and kick is the most important pass in the NBA, and that's why Giannis is averaging 6.0 assists per game for the last SIX years, while Wembanyama averaged 3.9 in his rookie season and 3.7 last season.

I listed the stats. Wemby has better rim FG%, and SMR FG%. He is more efficient everywhere except LMR.

Wembanyama has more counters than just finishing, and is still good in transition. He clears as a spacer, the rim protector has to come out to defend Wembanyama, so that increases his spacing value (Giannis is a HUGE negative in spacing). That's a reason why KG is so amazing too. Wemby is a lot better off-ball as well.

Giannis doesn't clear as a scorer he needs a specific team to be great. You mentioned drive & kick is important well it only works effectively with good 3 point shooters. And otherwise Giannis isn't good at playmaking so it should be close. Assists isn't the only thing to playmaking.

[GiannisAnte34]

I thought the goofy offseason threads were finished with

[CobraCommander]

Is this a joke?

this is def a joke....is wemby top 10 next year? top 15?

guys that are better than wemby next year- that will contribute more to your team winning game NEXT year....

jokic, giannis, luka, SGA, KD, Lebron, Curry, Embiid if he plays, Ant, KAT, Brunson, AD, Tatum if he played, Mitchel, maybe booker, most likely Haliburton if he played, Zion if he played, maybe ja?, maybe cade....


wemby is a ton of upside but he hasn't realized it yet...and lets be honest...his shot selection is still not where it needs to be- he will get there but he not there yet.

if its just one year and all these guys healthy, Wemby is not better for your team than any of the guys I named ......if it just next year in a vacuum.

said another way...if you had a team and you could have wemby for one year or any of those other guys...you take those other guys if you have to win right now...wemby is a few years away from having the impact of these guys when it comes to winning games

[CobraCommander]

Giannis will always be good enough to defend Wembanyama, whereas I don't see any way for Wembanyama to defend Giannis.

I mean, I rank Giannis higher now but Victor not being able to guard Giannis is a fallacy.

remember that one time wemby blocked giannis shot... do you guys remember that Giannis was 30, 12 and 6.5 assist on 60% from the field while wemby was 24, 11, 3.4 assist and 47% from the field......giannis was 1.2 blocks a game and wemby was 3.8. wemby is coming but he aint on prime giannis level yet....

damn near any other year giannis numbers get you an MVP...but SGA and Jokic were amazing last year...

will wemby be top 5 in mvp next year...im betting giannis will be...

[Lalouie]

after the dust settles let's see where sas is

[Godymas]

Giannis is basically like..LeBron of the 2020s if he never left Cleveland

It is so consistent and so amazing and yet it becomes so normalized that we forget that he is legitimately putting himself above guys like Kevin Garnett, Dirk, and KD in terms of his position. I still have him above Jokic, I think the arguments for Jokic having "worse teammates" is nonsense and Jokic has Murray as a legitimate All Star teammate and Aaron Gordon is consistently great 3rd guy, MPJ has been good. The rosters Jokic has have been better than Giannis for a while now, it's complete nonsense to pretend otherwise. Jokic has had a starting 5 that doesn't have to include Bobby Portis, Kevin Porter Jr, Pat Connaughton, etc who are perfectly fine players, but definitely not the guys you want starting. Oh I guess Brook is a solid guy, but he's old and a role player.

He's entering year 8 of performing at an MVP level, you could argue year 9 if you really want, but year 8 is fair. 7 years in a row of All NBA 1st team. Oh he's also an amazing playmaker and passer. Like it's not like Jokic is more than maybe 1 tier above Giannis in the world of passing, but Giannis is not some like scrub, dude is legitimately one of the best passers. He averages 5 assists for his career, he's a consistent 6 assist guy in his prime.

So yes, Wemby has a lot of to prove to get put into a conversation above Giannis. Let's start with Wemby having a fully healthy season. Then maybe he gets into the DPOY talks, but would you rather have the guy that wins the block titles on a mediocre defense or the guy that is one of the best help defenders that plays impeccable team defense and therefore has led teams to league leading defenses?

[-Luke-]

I don't know what Giannis has done to OP, but OP is a well-known Giannis hater.

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[Top10alltime]

I thought the goofy offseason threads were finished with

It's not goofy. Wemby clears off-ball and as a spacer (that rim protector is going to have to go out in the perimeter, that's valuable), more efficient across the floor, and on the same tier as Giannis in transition (where Giannis hugely dips in the offs at), and as a finisher.

So they're pretty close offensively. Now on the other end of the floor, Wemby gaps Giannis, especially when he has such mid defense in 2025. Wemby's rim protection alone (although Giannis is still elite at that), gaps anything Giannis has to bring on the floor defensively.

Giannis at best is not even top 5 player last year, in 2024-25.

[GiannisAnte34]

I thought the goofy offseason threads were finished with

It's not goofy. Wemby clears off-ball and as a spacer (that rim protector is going to have to go out in the perimeter, that's valuable), more efficient across the floor, and on the same tier as Giannis in transition (where Giannis hugely dips in the offs at), and as a finisher.

So they're pretty close offensively. Now on the other end of the floor, Wemby gaps Giannis, especially when he has such mid defense in 2025. Wemby's rim protection alone (although Giannis is still elite at that), gaps anything Giannis has to bring on the floor defensively.

Giannis at best is not even top 5 player last year, in 2024-25.

Ok I’ll bite who were the top 5 players last year

[Stan]

The thread became ridiculous when you implied he doesn't even have a "case" over him. Giannis would have a case over literally any player in the league, even if it's a weak one against someone like Jokic.

[Top10alltime]

I thought the goofy offseason threads were finished with

It's not goofy. Wemby clears off-ball and as a spacer (that rim protector is going to have to go out in the perimeter, that's valuable), more efficient across the floor, and on the same tier as Giannis in transition (where Giannis hugely dips in the offs at), and as a finisher.

So they're pretty close offensively. Now on the other end of the floor, Wemby gaps Giannis, especially when he has such mid defense in 2025. Wemby's rim protection alone (although Giannis is still elite at that), gaps anything Giannis has to bring on the floor defensively.

Giannis at best is not even top 5 player last year, in 2024-25.

Ok I’ll bite who were the top 5 players last year

1. Do you have a reply to anything I said placing Wemby over Giannis?

2. The top 5 players last year were (in order)...

Shai
Jokic
Tatum
Luka
Wemby

The top 2 are locks, then Tatum, Luka, Wemby is interchangeable. That's my top 5.

[MarcusBrody]

Interesting stats I found -

Giannis 2025 - 74.9 rim FG%, 41.2 SMR FG%, 45.2 LMR FG%, 22.2 3PT FG%
Wemby 2025 - 76.0 rim FG%, 47.8 SMR FG%, 40.5 LMR FG%, 35.2 3PT FG%

Even though Giannis is all-time transition wise (it's his greatest strength on offense after all), Wemby still has 1.19 PPP and 71.2 TS% in transition.

(Sources: nbarapm.com)

The gap isn't that big on offense.... oh yeah, and as a playmaker, it should be close at this point. Giannis' only counter as a playmaker is drive & kick.

So, again, what is the case for Giannis over Wemby in 2025, when it's already close on offense?

But Wembanyama only averaged 9.9 2-point attempts last season, so he's accurate because he's only attempting the easy 2-pointers.
Whereas Giannis averaged 18.7 2-point attempts last season.

As for playmaking, Giannis has averaged 6.0 assists per game for the last SIX years.
Wembanyama averaged 3.7 assists in 2024-25 and 3.9 assists in his rookie season.
Will Wembanyama ever average 6.0 assists, even for one season?
Seems a long way off...

Wemby still is more efficient across the floor, and similar in transition (Giannis strong point). Sure, Giannis volume makes him a better scorer, but it's still close. Plus Wemby has more counters than finishing only

And I wasn't talking about assists. (Although Giannis and Wemby both have same amount of rim AST so that's something). I was talking about Giannis passing counter on the basketball court. Giannis only has drive & kick. I don't think that will be good enough to make a significant gap.

And on the other end of the floor, Wembanyama absolutely clears Giannis. Giannis at best is still below Wemby.

The issue is that even if Player A is more efficient from every spot, it Player B can take more of his shots from more efficient spots, they can still be more efficient over all. Giannis is much better at getting those efficient shots, even if they're similar in making the ones they do take.

Wembanyama had 857 FGA, but only 229 of those were within 5 feet. Giannis had 1319 shots, and 802 of them were within 5 feet. That's how Giannis can be a much more efficient offensive player despite shooting being similar/favoring Wemby at each distance. Giannis has the desire/ability to get more of the best shots than Wemby (this also leads to him earning a lot more free throws).

All that said, assuming Wemby can stay healthy, I wouldn't at all be surprised if this were the last year where Giannis was above him. He's on his way to being a great player.

[bonita_the_frog]

Will Wembanyama keep attempting 8.8 threes per game?

Because if he relies on 3s, he's no different to all the vastly shorter players who can go cold at anytime and shoot their team out of a game...
Whereas a player who relies on interior scoring, and does it better than anyone else, is more reliable.

Wembanyama and Giannis are polar opposites, Giannis is the most consistent scorer in the NBA, while Wembanyama is at the mercy of whether his 3-pointer is falling ...

And because Giannis attacks the paint frequently, he's averaging 6.5 assists per game for the last 2 years.

[Top10alltime]

Will Wembanyama keep attempting 8.8 threes per game?

Because if he relies on 3s, he's no different to all the vastly shorter players who can go cold at anytime and shoot their team out of a game...
Whereas a player who relies on interior scoring, and does it better than anyone else, is more reliable.

Wembanyama and Giannis are polar opposites, Giannis is the most consistent scorer in the NBA, while Wembanyama is at the mercy of whether his 3-pointer is falling ...

And because Giannis attacks the paint frequently, he's averaging 6.5 assists per game for the last 2 years.

Again, these threes provide spacing value. This is really good for Wembanyama due to him drawing out the rim protector out (who mainly stands at the rim), to the perimeter. I could see him being in the Dirk level at spacing (which is a good reason why he's so good offensively).

Along with Wembanyama absolutely wiping Giannis at spacing, he also does this off-ball, and is WAYYY more portable. More efficient almost everywhere too. But, oh, doesn't matter, Giannis is better because he's a horrible shooter. I should've expected this from Giannis FC.

And on the other end.... we don't need a conversation. Rookie Wemby is comparable to 2019 and 2020 Giannis at defense, maybe even better. Let alone this season Wemby.

[bonita_the_frog]

Will Wembanyama keep attempting 8.8 threes per game?

Because if he relies on 3s, he's no different to all the vastly shorter players who can go cold at anytime and shoot their team out of a game...
Whereas a player who relies on interior scoring, and does it better than anyone else, is more reliable.

Wembanyama and Giannis are polar opposites, Giannis is the most consistent scorer in the NBA, while Wembanyama is at the mercy of whether his 3-pointer is falling ...

And because Giannis attacks the paint frequently, he's averaging 6.5 assists per game for the last 2 years.

Again, these threes provide spacing value. This is really good for Wembanyama due to him drawing out the rim protector out (who mainly stands at the rim), to the perimeter. I could see him being in the Dirk level at spacing (which is a good reason why he's so good offensively).

Along with Wembanyama absolutely wiping Giannis at spacing, he also does this off-ball, and is WAYYY more portable. More efficient almost everywhere too. But, oh, doesn't matter, Giannis is better because he's a horrible shooter. I should've expected this from Giannis FC.

And on the other end.... we don't need a conversation. Rookie Wemby is comparable to 2019 and 2020 Giannis at defense, maybe even better. Let alone this season Wemby.

Will Wembanyama's spacing, shooting and defense ever make him as good or better than Giannis? If so, when would you expect this to happen?

[The Servant]

Personally, I don't see the case for Giannis > Wemby. The gap will widen next season and pretty soon we're about to have yet another player wiping Giannis for peak, prime, and career. Could you help me out because I don't see why Wemby isn't already ahead of Giannis, and not top 5 player in the league.

Giannis: 30/12 on 62.5% TS - 67 games
Wemby: 24/11 on 59% TS - 46 games

He is going to have to gain ppg and efficiency, and availability. Giannis is usually around 68-70 games a year and I am not sure if Wemby can handle the load.

[Bornstellar]

Personally, I don't see the case for Giannis > Wemby. The gap will widen next season and pretty soon we're about to have yet another player wiping Giannis for peak, prime, and career. Could you help me out because I don't see why Wemby isn't already ahead of Giannis, and not top 5 player in the league.

Giannis: 30/12 on 62.5% TS - 67 games
Wemby: 24/11 on 59% TS - 46 games

He is going to have to gain ppg and efficiency, and availability. Giannis is usually around 68-70 games a year and I am not sure if Wemby can handle the load.

He played 71 games in his rookie season. His blood clot last year was not a basketball related injury. While I do not agree that Wemby has a case over Giannis (right now) I don't think it's fair to say he can't handle the load. He has been durable minus a non-basketball injury he had no control of. Wemby also has had to shoulder an insanely Herculean load on both sides of the court, unlike Giannis in recent years

Giannis on the other hand seems to be consistently injured when it matters the most, especially in recent years. And he hasn't played in at least 68 regular season games since 2019, so he isn't the most durable player himself.

[MarcusBrody]

Will Wembanyama keep attempting 8.8 threes per game?

Because if he relies on 3s, he's no different to all the vastly shorter players who can go cold at anytime and shoot their team out of a game...
Whereas a player who relies on interior scoring, and does it better than anyone else, is more reliable.

Wembanyama and Giannis are polar opposites, Giannis is the most consistent scorer in the NBA, while Wembanyama is at the mercy of whether his 3-pointer is falling ...

And because Giannis attacks the paint frequently, he's averaging 6.5 assists per game for the last 2 years.

Again, these threes provide spacing value. This is really good for Wembanyama due to him drawing out the rim protector out (who mainly stands at the rim), to the perimeter. I could see him being in the Dirk level at spacing (which is a good reason why he's so good offensively).

Along with Wembanyama absolutely wiping Giannis at spacing, he also does this off-ball, and is WAYYY more portable. More efficient almost everywhere too. But, oh, doesn't matter, Giannis is better because he's a horrible shooter. I should've expected this from Giannis FC.

And on the other end.... we don't need a conversation. Rookie Wemby is comparable to 2019 and 2020 Giannis at defense, maybe even better. Let alone this season Wemby.

Does it though? In the games I watched, teams generally didn't guard Wembanyama with their rim protector. They let that player hang back and defended him with a rangy forward (or even a strong guard at times), largely because they saw he'd likely be content on the perimeter and didn't worry as much about him getting downhill (and often the smaller player made it harder for him to dribble).