LeBron James longevity

[Enso]

James longevity is impressive. And adds to his GOAT argument.

Problem is this specific James accolade is tainted in rumors. Rumors of James being on HGH or some other PED. Which would directly lead to an increase in longevity.

It’s kind of like if Jordan’s accolade - like jumping - was tainted with rumors he had calf implants or something (not sure how one improves jumping via a questionable means). But I think you get my point.

What lol I never heard that before. Who the hell ever said Jordan had calf inplants

For LeBron it’s def more than hgh, which a lot of player are/were using. LeBron prob has access to the craziest stuff we aren’t even aware of yet. Like gene editing level stuff.

Hopefully they can gene edit Bronny into a solid role player at least.

you have any evidence of this happening?

Besides the eye test and numerous steroid users themselves calling him out?

The whole weight losing then muscle regaining fiasco when he rejoined the cavs

The bone spurt surgically removed from his jaw

The Florida biogenesis clinic scandal where it was alleged a Mr Paul would pick up orders for LJ

His business partner and his trainer who was also his wife’s trainer, both procuring peds from the same biogenesis clinic.

No direct, hand caught in the cookie jar evidence but very interesting nonetheless

[KillMonger]

What lol I never heard that before. Who the hell ever said Jordan had calf inplants

For LeBron it’s def more than hgh, which a lot of player are/were using. LeBron prob has access to the craziest stuff we aren’t even aware of yet. Like gene editing level stuff.

Hopefully they can gene edit Bronny into a solid role player at least.

you have any evidence of this happening?

Besides the eye test and numerous steroid users themselves calling him out?

The whole weight losing then muscle regaining fiasco when he rejoined the cavs

The bone spurt surgically removed from his jaw

The Florida biogenesis clinic scandal where it was alleged a Mr Paul would pick up orders for LJ

His business partner and his trainer who was also his wife’s trainer, both procuring peds from the same biogenesis clinic.

No direct, hand caught in the cookie jar evidence but very interesting nonetheless

quite a lot of smoke to not be fire but......innocent until guilty, benefit of the doubt......got to give it to him until proven otherwise

[Enso]

you have any evidence of this happening?

Besides the eye test and numerous steroid users themselves calling him out?

The whole weight losing then muscle regaining fiasco when he rejoined the cavs

The bone spurt surgically removed from his jaw

The Florida biogenesis clinic scandal where it was alleged a Mr Paul would pick up orders for LJ

His business partner and his trainer who was also his wife’s trainer, both procuring peds from the same biogenesis clinic.

No direct, hand caught in the cookie jar evidence but very interesting nonetheless

quite a lot of smoke to not be fire but......innocent until guilty, benefit of the doubt......got to give it to him until proven otherwise

For sure

[balrog27]

There were people saying that he was too reliant on athleticism to have a long career back when he was with the Heat.

Um, actually what's more impressive is that he's 40 and is still reliant on this athleticism, which has declined but still elite compared to his peers. That is what's most ridiculous.

[JN61]

Huge spacing + 3 def sec rule + non-stop mismatch hunting.
It's easier than ever to get to the rim nowadays.

Still a good stat.

Yet the stats tell a different story. The biggest misconception is that spacing creates shots at the rim. It really doesn't. It creates open shots from 3 as defenses collapses in the paint. Any defense will choose a 40-45% shot from the arc over a 70-100% at the rim. And any offense chooses a 40-45% 3 point shot over a 50-60% challenged shot at the rim.

Code: Select all

        % of FGA     FG% by Dist.
Year   0--3   3-10   0--3    3-10
1997   .341   .142   .552   .437
1998   .286   .178   .628   .376
1999   .266   .188   .620   .365
2023   .245   .206   .701   .454
2024   .241   .211   .699   .452
2025   .226   .214   .696   .461


You really have to be explosive and/or strong to get to the rim in today games. While in the 90's you had to have vision and awareness (Stockton previously holding the record of most shots made at the rim by a 40-year old)

*the stats are from bbref

You're talking about the clown league where players rather Bick fast break 3 than do wide open layup

[dhsilv2]

Huge spacing + 3 def sec rule + non-stop mismatch hunting.
It's easier than ever to get to the rim nowadays.

Still a good stat.

Yet the stats tell a different story. The biggest misconception is that spacing creates shots at the rim. It really doesn't. It creates open shots from 3 as defenses collapses in the paint. Any defense will choose a 40-45% shot from the arc over a 70-100% at the rim. And any offense chooses a 40-45% 3 point shot over a 50-60% challenged shot at the rim.

Code: Select all

        % of FGA     FG% by Dist.
Year   0--3   3-10   0--3    3-10
1997   .341   .142   .552   .437
1998   .286   .178   .628   .376
1999   .266   .188   .620   .365
2023   .245   .206   .701   .454
2024   .241   .211   .699   .452
2025   .226   .214   .696   .461


You really have to be explosive and/or strong to get to the rim in today games. While in the 90's you had to have vision and awareness (Stockton previously holding the record of most shots made at the rim by a 40-year old)

*the stats are from bbref

You're talking about the clown league where players rather Bick fast break 3 than do wide open layup

I want to see these bick fast 3's....

[NyKnicks1714]

There were people saying that he was too reliant on athleticism to have a long career back when he was with the Heat.

Um, actually what's more impressive is that he's 40 and is still reliant on this athleticism, which has declined but still elite compared to his peers. That is what's most ridiculous.

He's really not though. He's still pretty fast in a straight line, he's obviously still strong, but he doesn't get up very high anymore even on his highlight dunks, and his first step is basically gone. There are lots of guys more athletic than LeBron now. He relies on his savvy more than anything.

[Mephariel]

There were people saying that he was too reliant on athleticism to have a long career back when he was with the Heat.

Um, actually what's more impressive is that he's 40 and is still reliant on this athleticism, which has declined but still elite compared to his peers. That is what's most ridiculous.

He's really not though. He's still pretty fast in a straight line, he's obviously still strong, but he doesn't get up very high anymore even on his highlight dunks, and his first step is basically gone. There are lots of guys more athletic than LeBron now. He relies on his savvy more than anything.

He also greatly improved his 3 point shooting.

[OriginalRed]

Yes because that's exactly what this forum needs, another Lebron longevity thread as if he don't hear about it every god damn day from the media.

[Rust_Cohle]

Obvious GOAT and its honestly embarrassing that there is still a slight consensus in favor of MJ at this point.

Not as embarrassing as 8 points in a finals game and on the receiving end of multiple of the most lopsided point differentials in finals history while playing in a historically bad conference.

But a legend, nonetheless

[Rust_Cohle]

There were people saying that he was too reliant on athleticism to have a long career back when he was with the Heat.

Um, actually what's more impressive is that he's 40 and is still reliant on this athleticism, which has declined but still elite compared to his peers. That is what's most ridiculous.

He's really not though. He's still pretty fast in a straight line, he's obviously still strong, but he doesn't get up very high anymore even on his highlight dunks, and his first step is basically gone. There are lots of guys more athletic than LeBron now. He relies on his savvy more than anything.

Exactly, LeBron was one of the worst defenders in the entire for most of last season until after the Luka trade he picked it up on that end. But he was ghosting nearly every fourth quarter in that Timberwolves series, the playoff grind especially is where his age understandably shows. No surprise lakers wouldn’t mind letting him walk if they could.

[Mazter]

Not sure how him losing in 1999 would have damaged his legacy at all, considering he would have been 36, at the end of his prime etc. Wayne Gretzky bounced around to a few teams in the last few years of his career and didn't win, but it never damaged his overall legacy. Lebron hasn't won anything in 5 years and has been bounced in the 1st round multiple times, but his legacy hasn't been damaged.

A GOAT status is mainly build up through narrative. The way Jordan ended his career, 6 Championships in his last 6 full seasons, 10 All NBA in his last 10, 9 All Defensive in his last 9, 2 MVP's in his last 3, 10 scoring titles in his last 10. It almost gave made people believe he could have go on forever. But if you take his stats the decline was visible. If he would have forced his career to 18-19 years fading into averageness his GOAT status would have been far more less today.

[PassMeTheBall]

Not sure how him losing in 1999 would have damaged his legacy at all, considering he would have been 36, at the end of his prime etc. Wayne Gretzky bounced around to a few teams in the last few years of his career and didn't win, but it never damaged his overall legacy. Lebron hasn't won anything in 5 years and has been bounced in the 1st round multiple times, but his legacy hasn't been damaged.

A GOAT status is mainly build up through narrative. The way Jordan ended his career, 6 Championships in his last 6 full seasons, 10 All NBA in his last 10, 9 All Defensive in his last 9, 2 MVP's in his last 3, 10 scoring titles in his last 10. It almost gave made people believe he could have go on forever. But if you take his stats the decline was visible. If he would have forced his career to 18-19 years fading into averageness his GOAT status would have been far more less today.

Not necessarily since he would've had a strong chance of winning 7 rings if he stuck around another 3-4 seasons on a contender team. If he went to the Knicks after 1998 for instance he would've had a good shot at winning at least 1 more ring. Even if he winded up like 7-1 in the Finals that still would be better than 6-0. I could've seen a scenario where he wins in 1999 or 2000 but than in his last Finals loses to Shaq/Kobe where he pretty much passes the torch to them.

[PassMeTheBall]

As for the actual topic, Lebron's longevity is impressive for sure but it really doesn't move the needle in any GOAT debate. Doesn't winning matter anymore? It seems a lot of fans want it both ways where they want to prop up Lebron for his longevity but not for any losses. If he plays another 2-3 years & finishes with only 4 rings in 24 or 25 seasons that would look pretty bad for a GOAT case. He's also the Robin of the team so even if they somehow win it wouldn't move the needle in the GOAT debate since MJ was by far the #1 for all 6 of his rings.

[JN61]

Yet the stats tell a different story. The biggest misconception is that spacing creates shots at the rim. It really doesn't. It creates open shots from 3 as defenses collapses in the paint. Any defense will choose a 40-45% shot from the arc over a 70-100% at the rim. And any offense chooses a 40-45% 3 point shot over a 50-60% challenged shot at the rim.

Code: Select all

        % of FGA     FG% by Dist.
Year   0--3   3-10   0--3    3-10
1997   .341   .142   .552   .437
1998   .286   .178   .628   .376
1999   .266   .188   .620   .365
2023   .245   .206   .701   .454
2024   .241   .211   .699   .452
2025   .226   .214   .696   .461


You really have to be explosive and/or strong to get to the rim in today games. While in the 90's you had to have vision and awareness (Stockton previously holding the record of most shots made at the rim by a 40-year old)

*the stats are from bbref

You're talking about the clown league where players rather Bick fast break 3 than do wide open layup

I want to see these bick fast 3's....

Turn on tv buddy and stop pleasing yourself on basketball reference.

[GrindCityHustle]

People will be sad when he is gone is the funny thing. The Heat thing kind of ruined what would have been a perfect NBA career. I think he looks back on that move as an old man as a mistake that will keep him having haters.

I thought it was cool at the time but now it definitely makes people always put Jordan above him from now on. I think it's because he could have won a title with the pre 2016 Cavs as they eventually would have wised up and found the right group. The whole being embarrassed by Duncan is a thing he probably wishes he could have ducked while him having a superteam and was beaten with high chemistry play which fans hold on higher regard. That Ray Allen shot title team everyone knows was a bailout by the high IQ read from Bosh. Also that win by Dirk elevated him to S tier status just because of how badly hated the Heat were.

People act like that Jordan shot on Russell was a definining moment but everyone who watched it backed then knew the Bulls were always going to win that one. Still fans consider that as somehow a title that almost got "away". Rose colored nostalgia on some of Jordan's legacy is my main issue more than Lebron's decisions. People are more hard on him than Jordan and we all know that. Truth be told it's just cooler to rock Jordan gear is why Jordan is liked better. His marketing was always miles better than Lebron's.

His tagline before his draft was "As can't miss as can't miss gets". He definitely lived up to that. I don't think anyone saw him being this good or lasting this long. Its like expecting Giannis to play till 40 at a high level. Those type of players usually have a sharp decline and they are out of the league. I have no issue putting LeBron as the best all around player of all time. He really was.

[dhsilv2]

You're talking about the clown league where players rather Bick fast break 3 than do wide open layup

I want to see these bick fast 3's....

Turn on tv buddy and stop pleasing yourself on basketball reference.

My tv is bick free buddy.

[dhsilv2]

People will be sad when he is gone is the funny thing. The Heat thing kind of ruined what would have been a perfect NBA career. I think he looks back on that move as an old man as a mistake that will keep him having haters.

I thought it was cool at the time but now it definitely makes people always put Jordan above him from now on. I think it's because he could have won a title with the pre 2016 Cavs as they eventually would have wised up and found the right group. The whole being embarrassed by Duncan is a thing he probably wishes he could have ducked while him having a superteam and was beaten with high chemistry play which fans hold on higher regard. That Ray Allen shot title team everyone knows was a bailout by the high IQ read from Bosh. Also that win by Dirk elevated him to S tier status just because of how badly hated the Heat were.

People act like that Jordan shot on Russell was a definining moment but everyone who watched it backed then knew the Bulls were always going to win that one. Still fans consider that as somehow a title that almost got "away". Rose colored nostalgia on some of Jordan's legacy is my main issue more than Lebron's decisions. People are more hard on him than Jordan and we all know that. Truth be told it's just cooler to rock Jordan gear is why Jordan is liked better. His marketing was always miles better than Lebron's.

His tagline before his draft was "As can't miss as can't miss gets". He definitely lived up to that. I don't think anyone saw him being this good or lasting this long. Its like expecting Giannis to play till 40 at a high level. Those type of players usually have a sharp decline and they are out of the league. I have no issue putting LeBron as the best all around player of all time. He really was.

Lebron is the GOAT and I can't wait for him to be gone from the game. Now maybe he starts to do a Kobe thing where he does some basketball analysis and RIP Kobe...that hurts. But I'd be just fine if we never hear about or see Lebron again. As long as he lives till he's over 80. No more guys passing early I don't like as players!