Jokic vs Olajuwon one on one, who will win?

[Mirotic12]

Unsure why there is a somewhat hyper focus on size in the discussion?

Hakeems taller, with a larger wingspan and proved consistently through the greatest era of NBA big man that size/strength advantages meant very little when guarding the likes of Ewing, Shaq and Robinson. Why is it being implied Jokic would be bullying him here?

On the offensive end Hakeems absolutely fine, with the ability to raise over, fade away, play through, or beat Jokic off the dribble. Unless we think a weight advantage is going to magically allow Jokic to negate the greatest array of post moves and counter moves in nba history (its not like I'm being superlative here).

We can talk around this by referencing 1970s 1 on 1 games, or suggest this forum needs to play more - but these are some fairly basic and historically documented advantages Hakeem has which shouldn't be over thought.

So just for anyone who doesn't know, Hakeem has always clarified that he's closer to 6'9/6'10 (6'9 without shoes) and he's even sometimes referred to himself as "undersized" at C. I think he even also mentions this when training Dwight that they are both a little undersized (height wise) at C. Could have been an NBA (or Rockets) marketing thing to list him at 7'0 so they could have twin towers in Houston, I'm not really sure.

I saw Hakeem's draft measurement once. It was 6-10 1/2 without shoes on. Jokic was measured at 6-10 1/4 without shoes on in Europe, at age 18.

Maybe he grew very slightly since then. The NBA claims he's 6-11 without shoes on, but they also round up anything over 1/4 an inch to the next full inch.

So I think it's safe to say that they are just about the same height, as both would be listed at 6-11 without shoes on.

[og15]

Unsure why there is a somewhat hyper focus on size in the discussion?

Hakeems taller, with a larger wingspan and proved consistently through the greatest era of NBA big man that size/strength advantages meant very little when guarding the likes of Ewing, Shaq and Robinson. Why is it being implied Jokic would be bullying him here?

On the offensive end Hakeems absolutely fine, with the ability to raise over, fade away, play through, or beat Jokic off the dribble. Unless we think a weight advantage is going to magically allow Jokic to negate the greatest array of post moves and counter moves in nba history (its not like I'm being superlative here).

We can talk around this by referencing 1970s 1 on 1 games, or suggest this forum needs to play more - but these are some fairly basic and historically documented advantages Hakeem has which shouldn't be over thought.

So just for anyone who doesn't know, Hakeem has always clarified that he's closer to 6'9/6'10 (6'9 without shoes) and he's even sometimes referred to himself as "undersized" at C. I think he even also mentions this when training Dwight that they are both a little undersized (height wise) at C. Could have been an NBA (or Rockets) marketing thing to list him at 7'0 so they could have twin towers in Houston, I'm not really sure.

I saw Hakeem's draft measurement once. It was 6-10 1/2 without shoes on. Jokic was measured at 6-10 1/4 without shoes on in Europe, at age 18.

Maybe he grew very slightly since then. The NBA claims he's 6-11 without shoes on, but they also round up anything over 1/4 an inch to the next full inch.

So I think it's safe to say that they are just about the same height, as both would be listed at 6-11 without shoes on.

He might have said 6'10 without shoes, but I just always remember how he has commented many times about not being 7'0 and being an undersized C, and you can see it when he's next to the taller guys.

Regardless, my point is that Hakeem is not taller, he plays taller, and in the end, things like neck height aren't useful in basketball, so it also matters what kind of 6'9, 6'10, etc you are. The fact that Hakeem was shorter than that listed height is more, not less impressive IMO.


Here's another anecdote

On the subject of freaks of nature, I have to bring up Shaq. In 1992, Shaq measured 7’1” without shoes, weighed 303 pounds, recorded a 35 inch vertical and had his wingspan measured at 7’7”. To put that in perspective, from the minute he entered the league and for the next 10 years Shaq was the strongest player, the most athletic big man, one of the tallest players, one of the longest players and one of the quickest big men. His body fat was measured at a surprisingly low 12.2% too. A 1992 St. Paul Pioneer Press article said he even had veteran team physicians in awe of his physical stature. 7’0”, 255 listed Hakeem Olajuwon was so small compared to Shaq that he was estimated at 6’8”, 235 after standing next to him.

https://www.draftexpress.com/amp/article/A-Historical-Look-at-the-NBA-Pre-Draft-Measurements-2912/

[Lalouie]

do you mean for real 1on1 or houston versus denver

if its 1on1 i couldn't care less

[Mirotic12]

So just for anyone who doesn't know, Hakeem has always clarified that he's closer to 6'9/6'10 (6'9 without shoes) and he's even sometimes referred to himself as "undersized" at C. I think he even also mentions this when training Dwight that they are both a little undersized (height wise) at C. Could have been an NBA (or Rockets) marketing thing to list him at 7'0 so they could have twin towers in Houston, I'm not really sure.

I saw Hakeem's draft measurement once. It was 6-10 1/2 without shoes on. Jokic was measured at 6-10 1/4 without shoes on in Europe, at age 18.

Maybe he grew very slightly since then. The NBA claims he's 6-11 without shoes on, but they also round up anything over 1/4 an inch to the next full inch.

So I think it's safe to say that they are just about the same height, as both would be listed at 6-11 without shoes on.

He might have said 6'10 without shoes, but I just always remember how he has commented many times about not being 7'0 and being an undersized C, and you can see it when he's next to the taller guys.

Regardless, my point is that Hakeem is not taller, he plays taller, and in the end, things like neck height aren't useful in basketball, so it also matters what kind of 6'9, 6'10, etc you are. The fact that Hakeem was shorter than that listed height is more, not less impressive IMO.


Here's another anecdote

On the subject of freaks of nature, I have to bring up Shaq. In 1992, Shaq measured 7’1” without shoes, weighed 303 pounds, recorded a 35 inch vertical and had his wingspan measured at 7’7”. To put that in perspective, from the minute he entered the league and for the next 10 years Shaq was the strongest player, the most athletic big man, one of the tallest players, one of the longest players and one of the quickest big men. His body fat was measured at a surprisingly low 12.2% too. A 1992 St. Paul Pioneer Press article said he even had veteran team physicians in awe of his physical stature. 7’0”, 255 listed Hakeem Olajuwon was so small compared to Shaq that he was estimated at 6’8”, 235 after standing next to him.

https://www.draftexpress.com/amp/article/A-Historical-Look-at-the-NBA-Pre-Draft-Measurements-2912/

Young Orlando Shaq looked kind of small in his basketball shoes, when he stood next to old Wilt, who might have shrunk some, and who was wearing dress shoes.

[JordansBulls]

Hakeem. Jokic lost with HCA to Dame and Anthony Edwards as the favorite.

[Black Jack]

Embiid was able to get the better of Jokic in quite a few of their pure 1v1 matchups in the 2020s so I don’t understand everyone just blindly picking Jokic

Size. Embiid is huge, Dream is undersized in ATG center terms.

[dhsilv2]

I saw Hakeem's draft measurement once. It was 6-10 1/2 without shoes on. Jokic was measured at 6-10 1/4 without shoes on in Europe, at age 18.

Maybe he grew very slightly since then. The NBA claims he's 6-11 without shoes on, but they also round up anything over 1/4 an inch to the next full inch.

So I think it's safe to say that they are just about the same height, as both would be listed at 6-11 without shoes on.

He might have said 6'10 without shoes, but I just always remember how he has commented many times about not being 7'0 and being an undersized C, and you can see it when he's next to the taller guys.

Regardless, my point is that Hakeem is not taller, he plays taller, and in the end, things like neck height aren't useful in basketball, so it also matters what kind of 6'9, 6'10, etc you are. The fact that Hakeem was shorter than that listed height is more, not less impressive IMO.


Here's another anecdote

On the subject of freaks of nature, I have to bring up Shaq. In 1992, Shaq measured 7’1” without shoes, weighed 303 pounds, recorded a 35 inch vertical and had his wingspan measured at 7’7”. To put that in perspective, from the minute he entered the league and for the next 10 years Shaq was the strongest player, the most athletic big man, one of the tallest players, one of the longest players and one of the quickest big men. His body fat was measured at a surprisingly low 12.2% too. A 1992 St. Paul Pioneer Press article said he even had veteran team physicians in awe of his physical stature. 7’0”, 255 listed Hakeem Olajuwon was so small compared to Shaq that he was estimated at 6’8”, 235 after standing next to him.

https://www.draftexpress.com/amp/article/A-Historical-Look-at-the-NBA-Pre-Draft-Measurements-2912/

Young Orlando Shaq looked kind of small in his basketball shoes, when he stood next to old Wilt, who might have shrunk some, and who was wearing dress shoes.

Wilt would have been late 50's in 1992. Not exactly full on "shrinking". Also not sure that dress shoes add or substract height relative to basketball shoes. Most dress shoes have a pretty prominent heel.

And from there Wilt got really into weight lifting post career. He was bigger after his playing days...but not sure why this matters given Wilt would obviously make Hakeem look small too.

[Harry Palmer]

Hakeem’s wingspan was just over 7’6”.

[SHAQ32]

I feel like Jokic and the like are only as good as they are because the league has gone away from physical, athletic bigs that can defend but not shoot. Guys like Dwight, DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond, Kenneth Faried, etc. Those guys, and guys who are of a similar mold, would contain Jokic better that the guys playing center today.

Hakeem easily.

[bbms]

current dream or prime dream?

prime dream in 1v1 its simply too easy for the dream.

way way way more athetic and better defender.