Tanking/Resting/Injury ‘Management’ is out of control

[ItsDanger]

NHL players don't have minutes restrictions when coming off injury list.

NHL players also play about 1/3 of the game every night. It's the equivalent of top NBA players logging in 16 minutes a game.

The best pitchers in the MLB play about 20% of their team's games and sit out the other 80%.

Rotating players is a perfectly normal thing in both MLS and European football leagues.

No one except NBA fans complains that the athletes they idolize aren't running themselves into the ground during a fairly meaningless regular season.

You sound like someone who's never played hockey before to make that comment. Joke

[GrandTheftRondo]

So, your broader point has some teeth to it, but for this one, I have to wonder... have you ever sprained an ankle before? Like, no sass, serious question. Because there are a variety of ways in which inflammation management after an injury like that could be a problem for a long time after the initial injury. And then tolerance for anti-inflammatory medications without wanting to abolish kidney function could permit someone to play a game one night and then want to take the next night off and such.

Yes. Played basketball for decades and had a few bad sprains.

It would be believable if the teams doing this regularly weren’t the same ones actively trying to lose as many games as possible.

It’s funny how the good teams actively chasing wins don’t have their players sitting for ankle injury ‘management’ a month after a minor sprain.

I understand that players sitting out games is the net effect either way, but you are combining player rest/injury management and tanking, which are two different issues. So it seems unclear if your complaint was that players are getting unnecessary games off, or that too many teams are blatantly tanking (there are a lot of bad teams of course and this will surely be a thing especially after ASB.)

They go hand in hand.

Bad teams are taking the piss out of the NBA with all the fake injuries at a rate never seen.

Good teams are doing the same against bad teams and on back to backs.

It’s making for some truly awful games

[desitmac91]

Get to your late 20's after hooping/running years on end, and tell me you wouldn't actually need more rest days. The reality is too many games are being played, athletes/doctors are realizing this and prioritizing their long-term health.

[gavran]

The league should load manage to a 68-game-season.

[xchange55]

Yes the same old heads will pretend like playing 82 games and 40 minutes in the 90s is the same, but its not and we need to stop pretending like ti is.

NBA was much more physical in 80's and 90's compared to today. The floor is so spread with the 3 point shot today - but back then you didn't have 2-3 guys standing outside the permiter, everyone was in it which forces contact.

People say a player like Larry Johnson had to retire early because he played through injuries. He only played 10 years, and of those 10 years he only missed more than 20 games twice. So when you played the Hornets or the Knicks, you know you were playing Grandmama.

Nowadays such player could play 15-18 years, but he'd be in and out of the lineup so much he'd never be a key part of any team. Basically be like a PG13, or an Embiid is heading that way. So looking at PG13 and Embiid is their health any better by sitting them in and out? Nope they have chronic health issues. They can either grind it out until they can't or just stretch it out. The stetch out is what's happening. I'm not going to argue about what's better for the player, but it's terrible for the fan experience.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

i'm 33 and have dealt with chronic injuries for over a decade from breaking an ankle when i was 18 and never rehabbing properly. pretty much all the workouts i do have some form of injury prevention and i load manage myself, even though i *could* play more basketball at the time i'll pay for it later. i'd rather be able to play whenever i want to and part of that means not playing 2+ hours at a time, not focusing on gains in the weight room and being diligent with my management workouts, etc.

i think you really have to have played at a semi-competitive (organized) level and watch what players put their bodies through today to truly appreciate that yeah, guys might need a break every once in a while so they can perform at a decent level when they're healthy.

i think the whole "preventative" approach in medicine really conflicts with sports fans who are impatient. taking preventative measures absolutely helps long-term but fans are hardly known for their patience.

the issue is that the number and frequency of games, in the way the game is played now, is not compatible with securing the long term health of the players.
the fans have every right to be impatient, in particular when they pay big money to see their favorite player and he's resting.
but it's not that player, the issue. and not even that team. it's because the League has a whole decided to sell you a product compromising its quality for more quantity

[Ryoga Hibiki]

NHL players don't have minutes restrictions when coming off injury list.

NHL players also play about 1/3 of the game every night. It's the equivalent of top NBA players logging in 16 minutes a game.

The best pitchers in the MLB play about 20% of their team's games and sit out the other 80%.

Rotating players is a perfectly normal thing in both MLS and European football leagues.

No one except NBA fans complains that the athletes they idolize aren't running themselves into the ground during a fairly meaningless regular season.

You sound like someone who's never played hockey before to make that comment. Joke

Never played okey, but I suspect there's a very different risk profile for lower body injuries, compared to basketball.
if anything because skating doesn't put the same pressure on your joints than running and jumping

[SkyHook]

NHL players also play about 1/3 of the game every night. It's the equivalent of top NBA players logging in 16 minutes a game.

The best pitchers in the MLB play about 20% of their team's games and sit out the other 80%.

Rotating players is a perfectly normal thing in both MLS and European football leagues.

No one except NBA fans complains that the athletes they idolize aren't running themselves into the ground during a fairly meaningless regular season.

You sound like someone who's never played hockey before to make that comment. Joke

Never played okey, but I suspect there's a very different risk profile for lower body injuries, compared to basketball.
if anything because skating doesn't put the same pressure on your joints than running and jumping

Injury rates are night and day between the two sports, especially evident with ankles and knees. Concussions are the only injury where hockey has a significant statistical disadvantage.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8050171/

[ItsDanger]

You sound like someone who's never played hockey before to make that comment. Joke

Never played okey, but I suspect there's a very different risk profile for lower body injuries, compared to basketball.
if anything because skating doesn't put the same pressure on your joints than running and jumping

Injury rates are night and day between the two sports, especially evident with ankles and knees. Concussions are the only injury where hockey has a significant statistical disadvantage.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8050171/

It's just more excuses. Players in NBA can't and won't play less than 100%. It's OK to just admit it.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I don't usually do this... in fact, I doubt a lot of people know the NBA team I watch the most.

But, despite the sometimes cumbersome style, the stagnation from one season to the next, and the often unsightly experience of watching Julius Randle and Rudy Gobert play basketball...

The Minnesota Timberwolves play the "rest management" game significantly less than most organizations. In fact, they haven't had a single "rest game" this season. And I believe only 37-year-old Mike Conley took rest days last season... about 10 of them.



[Note: To add to your viewing pleasure... the Timberwolves don't grift for fouls or flop. In fact, they've only taken 5 offensive charges all season (not enough). It should be noted, however, that they do complain about officiating A LOT. Annoying, but still more ethical than grifting for fouls on offense and defense. Mike Conley will occasionally flop on screens though.]

[Nate505]

i'm 33 and have dealt with chronic injuries for over a decade from breaking an ankle when i was 18 and never rehabbing properly. pretty much all the workouts i do have some form of injury prevention and i load manage myself, even though i *could* play more basketball at the time i'll pay for it later. i'd rather be able to play whenever i want to and part of that means not playing 2+ hours at a time, not focusing on gains in the weight room and being diligent with my management workouts, etc.

i think you really have to have played at a semi-competitive (organized) level and watch what players put their bodies through today to truly appreciate that yeah, guys might need a break every once in a while so they can perform at a decent level when they're healthy.

i think the whole "preventative" approach in medicine really conflicts with sports fans who are impatient. taking preventative measures absolutely helps long-term but fans are hardly known for their patience.

You could very well be right.

That said, why the stupid subterfuge. Just rest them and announce they aren't playing. Or suit them up and DNP-CD them.

[Nate505]

(double post)

[Dominator83]

I know usually he's pretty tough, but Sengün out two games in a row for an illness?? Come on dude! MJ and Kobe probably probably never missed a game in their careers for that, let alone 2 in a row. They probably would have played both and dropped 40 in each!

[LockoutSeason]

Players play more minutes and have longer careers today than in history. I’m starting to think this load management stuff is fake outrage.

[BrianInPhilly]

Main way to prevent injuries is conditioning during offseason imo. I think when you see guys banged up a lot during season it’s something lacking in their work in offseason. Diet is huge too. Some young guys I’m sure just eat terribly and that doesn’t help with recovery time, being on point mentally and physically etc etc

I definitely am someone to not overly critique specific guys though. Because there’s so much complexities to studying injury free, and sometimes luck. And me as an outside can’t judge an individuals work ethic like that. But I can make an educated guess as a while offseason work may be lacking, and lack of properly training then.

[BigDan245]

I know usually he's pretty tough, but Sengün out two games in a row for an illness?? Come on dude! MJ and Kobe probably probably never missed a game in their careers for that, let alone 2 in a row. They probably would have played both and dropped 40 in each!

Buddy, it's December. Why would you want to get your entire team sick?

[The4thHorseman]

The fact is, there are too many high profile players that have legit injuries. They need to reduce the games played in the season with zero back to backs and this would solve a lot of problems.

But the season's barely 25gms into the schedule and with minimal b2b games so far. If a lot of this was happening around the 60gm mark, then the theory would have more of a leg to stand on.

[Lockdown504090]

kuminga is playing through bad knees, can barely move, and is 1/8. Is this what we wanted to see?

[Yoshun]

I don't mind so much unless I'm going to a game. There's nothing like spending several hundred dollars and commuting into Brooklyn to watch star players sit on the bench.

Of course, the Nets don't really have stars to sit right now, so there's that.