The Nuggets miss Westbrook

[mademan]

Basically all of his stops have showed why, to be honest.

But he doesnt need to be a prominent player on your team. Coaches dont need to play him in the clutch or put him in a position to hurt them....he provides value outside of that and he doesnt come off as a guy who'd make a stink if he played 10 or 25 minutes or was DNP-CD

The Nuggets are a playoff team. They're trying to win a championship. Surely you remember Russ in his last few playoffs series over the past few seasons, right?

He hit a new low in the OKC series and really challenged the idea that Westbrook is a viable player in a playoff rotation. He had more turnovers than assists, he had more fouls than he had rebounds (or rebounds, steals, and blocks combined). He missed twice as many shots as he made. It's hard to say it was just a bad series, when it happened so soon after another complete disaster (Clips vs. Mavs the year before).

It is not in anyway strange that a contending team decided to look elsewhere for rotation players.

But you dont have to play him in the playoffs though. He provides some good things and a lot of bad. Use him when it works, and bench him when it doent. He's a 9th, 10th man minimum player...you dont have to invest anything in him

[puny]

They badly miss AG.

LOL @ that tryhard AG. What the hell was he trying to prove? Idiot.

[ConSarnit]

Denver needs to be able to handle playing at a faster pace because that's how opponents are attacking them. And then when Denver speeds up, they crumble. It's happened multiple times this year already.

The Dallas game wasn't super fast but it was fast enough to throw the Nuggets offense off rhythm .


DEN fast break points per game last year



DEN fast break points per game this year



The issue is not only the lost 4 ppg in FBP but the failed attempted fast breaks this season that end up as bricks or turnovers that lead to opponent run-outs for easy scores. This dynamic is probably Denver's biggest problem so far this season, along with overall halfcourt defensive struggles.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for a Russ return. But Denver needs someone who fits the Russ profile: Up tempo, fiery and a strong passer. Competitive.

Missing Gordon and Braun hurts significantly, same for Murray, but their coming back isn't going to solve the core fast-pace issue. Denver needs a ball handler and creator who can play at pace more than they need finishers on the break like Gordon and Braun.

Murray is having a great year but he's not naturally a high-pace guy and you need someone else to help him share the burden with decision making and ball handling. Bruce is ok but not ideal IMO.

Russ is a phenomenal passer, the best passer Jokic ever played with.

Denver has apparently been exploring the idea of bringing in a backup point guard. I think that would help and I think it's getting clearer about what kind of guy might fit best in that role.

I also think that they could use an athletic big in the rotation but apparently they don't think Holmes is ready and NNaji can still be inconsistent.

Denver has the best half-court offense in the league. They are on pace to have the best offense EVER. Whatever they’ve “lost” from not having Russ they’ve gained massively in the half-court (you know, where the majority of the game is played).

Denver also has a better defensive rating this year than they did last year.

So I have to ask: How are they missing Russ when their team is clearly better without him?

they're not CLEARLY better since the change was more than just losing westy in a vacuum

How about this? I’ll meet you in the middle.

My argument is not great because it doesn’t separate on/off numbers for Westbrook specifically.

…which is exactly the same thing HotRocks is doing.

If you’re going to claim that a team is missing a specific players contribution at the very least you can provide actual data for when that player is on/off the floor.

[The Servant]

They should've kept him if Pickett is unplayable and Brown is this washed up.

Jokic's petulance can resurface with a quickness. He was frustrated and spent clutch time standing around and chucking 3's. At home, against a poor team, Spencer F'n Jones gave you damn near 30, and Jok already put in the work for a monster statline. And yet the 4th was unserious. It kills me when he punches out of a game like this.

They badly miss AG.

Ironically it was a very Westbrookian triple double by Jokic tonight. No impact, taking awful shots late, defensive liability...

They clearly need AG back

The "Westbrookian triple double", the one where Westbrook has a 74% win rate when recording a triple double? If you're going so far as to coin a term try not to be flat out wrong.

[Infinite Llamas]

Christian Braun was number one or two in fast break points last year so him being out will explain the dip there.

[ConSarnit]

But he doesnt need to be a prominent player on your team. Coaches dont need to play him in the clutch or put him in a position to hurt them....he provides value outside of that and he doesnt come off as a guy who'd make a stink if he played 10 or 25 minutes or was DNP-CD

The Nuggets are a playoff team. They're trying to win a championship. Surely you remember Russ in his last few playoffs series over the past few seasons, right?

He hit a new low in the OKC series and really challenged the idea that Westbrook is a viable player in a playoff rotation. He had more turnovers than assists, he had more fouls than he had rebounds (or rebounds, steals, and blocks combined). He missed twice as many shots as he made. It's hard to say it was just a bad series, when it happened so soon after another complete disaster (Clips vs. Mavs the year before).

It is not in anyway strange that a contending team decided to look elsewhere for rotation players.

But you dont have to play him in the playoffs though. He provides some good things and a lot of bad. Use him when it works, and bench him when it doent. He's a 9th, 10th man minimum player...you dont have to invest anything in him

If you’re a legit contender why are you going to invest money and playing time into a guy that you know you’ll have to bench in the playoffs? If you’re capped out you need to try and win around the margins. You don’t want to be basing some aspects of your success around something that ends up not working once you get to the playoffs. It’s better to cut the cord (letting Russ walk in the off-season) before you find yourself in that predicament.

[Raps in 4]

Denver is missing the same thing they've been missing every year during Jokic's prime: talent.

[Deathray]

I bet if you asked Jokic he'd say he misses Russ.

[HotRocks34]

Christian Braun was number one or two in fast break points last year so him being out will explain the dip there.

That's true. Braun and Gordon being out hurts Denver's transition game.

However, Russ also had his own positive impact for transition play. Here's the data for Denver's starting lineup last year of JM/CB/MP/AG/NJ and how things looked when you swapped out MP for Russ. Data from NBA.com.

JM/CB/MP/AG/NJ
426 minutes on court (30 games)
125.0 ORTG
114.4 DRTG
010.6 NRTG
102.6 Pace

RW/JM/CB/AG/NJ
044 minutes on court (18 games)
112.4 ORTG
094.4 DRTG
018.0 NRTG
116.6 Pace


As I said earlier, I'm not advocating for bringing Russ back. I don't think that's going to happen, and he's old. But I do think that adding another guard who brings some of Russ' skills, including the ability to play at pace, could help Denver.

[An Unbiased Fan]

They miss the coach they fired

[dhsilv2]

Denver is missing the same thing they've been missing every year during Jokic's prime: talent.

lol...well top end talent for sure. They do look to have depth this year.

[Lalouie]

Denver has the best half-court offense in the league. They are on pace to have the best offense EVER. Whatever they’ve “lost” from not having Russ they’ve gained massively in the half-court (you know, where the majority of the game is played).

Denver also has a better defensive rating this year than they did last year.

So I have to ask: How are they missing Russ when their team is clearly better without him?

they're not CLEARLY better since the change was more than just losing westy in a vacuum

How about this? I’ll meet you in the middle.

My argument is not great because it doesn’t separate on/off numbers for Westbrook specifically.

…which is exactly the same thing HotRocks is doing.

If you’re going to claim that a team is missing a specific players contribution at the very least you can provide actual data for when that player is on/off the floor.

when denver, jokic, signed westy last year his energy and aggressiveness were what they "needed".

that was mindset issue not a numbers game

[KayDee35]

I bet if you asked Jokic he'd say he misses Russ.

Jokic not only misses Russ but he used to miss Russ a lot too... when Jokic wouldn't pass to Russ while Russ was spotting up for threes.

Russ had a miserable Ortg of 89 in the OKC series. He was simply ineffective against a good defense that was willing to live with him taking open 3s all day.

[Woodsanity]

Why do most posters on here not realize that Aaron Gordon and Braun have missed many many games. Seriously people who don't actually watch the Nuggets keep commenting....

Losing Aaron Gordon alone is a big hit. Dude is the 3rd and sometimes 2nd best player on the Nuggets. Both players are also very critical defensively.

So of course with two starters missing who are positives defensively the defense will take a step back.

[dhsilv2]

Why do most posters on here not realize that Aaron Gordon and Braun have missed many many games. Seriously people who don't actually watch the Nuggets keep commenting....

Losing Aaron Gordon alone is a big hit. Dude is the 3rd and sometimes 2nd best player on the Nuggets. Both players are also very critical defensively.

So of course with two starters missing who are positives defensively the defense will take a step back.

We got people saying Jokic is too passive when his team loses a game where they scored 130.

[BigGargamel]

Naah, the Nuggets don't miss Westbrook. They miss Aaron Gordon. He is unquestionably their best defender, and third best scorer. It is no coincidence that their defense fell off a cliff once he got hurt. Braun is also a good defender. Everyone has injuries, but it's no big mystery. Those are two huge pieces. Denver looked fantastic when the team was fully healthy.

I didn't read the thread, but I'm sure posters who actually pay attention have already mentioned this. They'll be fine, but Denver seems to be the one team on this board, that every time they lose a game everyone acts like the sky is falling.

[lethalizer]

I bet if you asked Jokic he'd say he misses Russ.

Jokic not only misses Russ but he used to miss Russ a lot too... when Jokic wouldn't pass to Russ while Russ was spotting up for threes.

Russ had a miserable Ortg of 89 in the OKC series. He was simply ineffective against a good defense that was willing to live with him taking open 3s all day.

I don't think the Nuggets miss Russ especially for a playoff run, but this kind of thinking made the Clippers think Norm was expendable.

We as fans think playoff performers are the ultimate end goal, which is true to an extent, but seeding does matter and some players help winning regular season games.

Isaiah Joe on OKC is another example. He could barely see the court come playoff time, but OKC wouldn't have won 68 games last season if it wasn't for him, he provided much needed spacing for Shai during the regular season.

Russ is a chaotic player that bring a lot energy on the court, at all times. Even at his age during the regular season, that's an important trait to have.

NBA at times is a game of margins after all.

[MarcusBrody]

As all the Denver fans are saying, the main problem is their two best defenders/cutters being out injured.

But I do think that Russ would be useful. I was pro-Russ during his time in Denver and while the Nuggets did a really good job of getting deeper this year, they didn't add any of that depth at PG. Bruce Brown wasn't effective there in his first stint in Denver and I didn't have a lot of faith in him to be going forward. I assume the team hoped that Jalen Pickett would take a step forward to decent backup PG, but he doesn't seem to have done so. Russ would be great for eating regular season second team PG minutes.

The problem with Russ is that he doesn't want to be a regular season, second-team minute eater. I would be interested in if the Nuggets saying that they didn't want him (in his phrasing) meant they told him that he shouldn't pick up his option or that they didn't seem him being part of an 8 man playoff/crunchtime rotation.