What teams can Portland beat in the playoffs out West.

[Bgil]

First, lets start with Utah. It could be argued that Portland started their "slump",

No it can't. They had lost 3 straight games before they even played you.

Also, if Utah's point differential is +4.8 they cant be bad, right?

They aren't a bad team (usually), but they were for a good stretch of time. 5-11 in a month is horrible. We destroyed Utah during that stretch too but you don't see us talking about it like it was some awesome (!)accomplishment now do you?

which in reality was a inability to shoot from the outside against a good zone.

You sure? I know the two times we've beat them this year were do to their inability to guard anyone and we damn sure weren't playing any zone against them.

Can they keep at this pace, who knows?

Another cop out. Just say you believe they will or you believe they won't. I'm not asking you to put money on it, just to make an educated guess.

Second, the current record of the teams Portland played on the 17-1 streak is 319-370, that is .463. The record of the 17 teams they beat .457. To take it a step farther, the combined record of every team Portland has beat is 401-454, only .469, what is my point?

The combined record of every team the lakers have beat is 452-547, only .452......

You can't take teams you've played in the past, add up their records now, and expect it to mean anything. They didn't have those records when you or us actually played them. Your SOS is actually slightly higher than ours as of 1/15. We're still ranked higher in every power ranking known to man because of our superior record, superior margin, superior road record etc.

There's a reason you guys are still floating around Denver and Utah in everyone's power rankings while we're up by Boston and Detroit.

The Blazers went into a funk after blowing a 27 point lead in phily. They lost the next 7 of 8 then corrected it.

Which goes to something I mentioned earlier about implementing changes that no one has scouted you for. just like Utah this season or Denver and GS in the past two seasons, once the book comes out on how to beat you guys then you'll cool off considerably. Not to mention that JJ and SB aren't going to shoot 50-60% 3pt percentage for the rest of the season.

Still after all that, there's no evidence anywhere that suggests you guys would just walk through everyone but SA and PHX in 7 games. You just don't come to that conclusion by beating a bunch of weak teams + Utah (in a slump) + Denver. That's my problem with the Blazers fans anaylsis.

[magee]

Teams they can beat in 7 games:

San Antonio, Dallas, Denver, Utah, Golden State.

Teams they'll lose to:

Lakers (w/ 100% healthy Bynum), Suns, Dallas/San An if they don't have home court.

[Charlie78]

The funniest part of your argument here Bgil is you seem to think that the blazer fans are saying we can for sure beat these teams or that its likely. I havent seen one blazer fan who was being serious say that we are going to win a playoff series (although you might later in this post). All anyone is saying is taking the ten teams right now who have a shot at the playoffs the ones we could most likely beat are Utah, GS and Denver given we have had success against them. I think also we have a slim chance against Lakers NO and Dallas, although I would say it is highly unlikely. You are the one that took this to a comparison of the respective seasons and bringing out all of these ridiculous arguments. There is a reason why stats dont tell the whole story and why we actually play the games. The fact is the blazers are playing terrific after a very difficult and disappointing start. You constantly point to our road record as a reason why we are not good. However since the streak began we are 6-2 on the road. While in our first 9 road losses we played 6 playoff teams (SA 2, NO, DEN, WAS, DAL) Houston who is better than their record, and a couple of bad losses to sub par teams. At this point in the season you need to stop focusing on the streak and look at the team overall

Ill take a stand on the questions you seem to want answered. Yes James Jones will shoot at least 50% for the season. I know this would technically be a decline but I expect him to keep up the pace. I also expect the same from Blake. Both for the same reason we have now played nearly half the season that is enough to stop considering it a fluke.

The blazers will win at least 48 games although through my homer glasses I actually expect more like 52. If they win the division and get homecourt I fully expect a first round win assuming they dont end up somehow facing SA or PHX.

Anything else you want definite answers to. This team at this point has shown so much more than seemed possible at the beginning of the year, and to think at this point it is merely a fluke is just being blatantly obtuse. I imagine you are carrying this argument on more because of the momentum than because you truly beleive it anymore. But tell me what does portland need to do to prove they are legit. Win in tough back to backs, check. Win on the road, see my earlier comments on their recent road record, check. Beat top flight teams, check. Have sustained success, check. What else please tell me because I am curious what it takes to turn a hater into someone who can at least give us an ounce of respect for our accomplishments.

By the way just so you know I am amazed at what the lakers have done this year. I am not one who necessarily counted them out of the playoffs (but with the kobe drama I dont know how you can blame people) as long as kobe is on that team they can win every night. I hate him because of all the last second shots he has stabbed right thourgh my heart but I have mad respect for his game. I hope bynum comes back fully healed because i look forward to our battles for the next five years.

[Pinot love]

Anyone who knows the game of basketball and has seen the Blazers play half their games or more knows this is the kind of team who can upset a good team in the playoffs, even if it isn't likely. They know this is a team which has a reasonable (let's put a rough number on that, at least 40%-60% chance) chance at beating Utah, GS and Denver.

I would argue they also have a decent chance at beating Houston, NO and LA as LA had a very similar record at this time last year and fizzled out, Houston has injury issues and if you've seen the matchups against NO you'd know these two teams are close.

[The_Believer]

They could beat the Jazz (if they make the playoffs) and Nuggets (they have been killing the nugs), but everybody else is too much for them.

[BlzrsExplosion]

Still after all that, there's no evidence anywhere that suggests you guys would just walk through everyone but SA and PHX in 7 games. You just don't come to that conclusion by beating a bunch of weak teams + Utah (in a slump) + Denver. That's my problem with the Blazers fans anaylsis.

Obviously you have missed the point with all of your trash talking and trolling. No Blazers fan has come to the conclusion that the team "would just walk through everyone but SA and PHX in 7 games." That's your delusional view of the thread. Perhaps you've missed the entire question: "What teams can Portland beat in the playoffs out West." -- because you certainly haven't even begun to try to answer it. The point of your posts as I seem them are (a) The Blazers have played a weak schedule which has inflated their winning percentage and (b) The Lakers are super duper awesome.

Let's look at how true (a) is. The Blazers have the 6th best record in the West on the season so far (3 games behind the conference leaders btw) while playing the 7th hardest (to use a stat you're so fond of) SOS in the league. Q. How is having the 7th hardest SOS in the NBA favorable or fortunate to the Blazers success so far? A. Clearly it's not. If you aren't surprised or impressed with the Blazers unlikely emergence as a playoff contender then fine but you're in the minority on that one. Still the question wasn't: Are you impressed by the Blazers win streak? Why turn a thread about what teams the Blazers would (theoretically obviously) match up well with in the West into: Why Bgil thinks the Blazers win streak is stupid, dumb and no fun at all bah humbug.

Onto (b) The Lakers are super duper awesome, the second primary point of your posts. Having the top record in the West at this stage in the season is, surely, one of the bigger surprises of the season and I'd say that, yes, they have played super duper awesome so far. Congratulations! Go polish your Kobe sneakers and draw Andrew Bynum dunking feiry basketballs onto your Pee Chee folder with a ball point pen...then, if you have anything to add about potential Blazers playoff matchups, come back to this thread and make a post.

[TBpup]

One of my best friends is a big Laker fan...I'm a Blazer fan. Both teams are doing much better than either of us thought or better than most of their fans or the pundits thought. Why isn't that good enough?

Kobe is great and Roy is better than most people know. The rest of the players make up the supporting cast that is helping both teams get to where they are. They are beating the teams they play with regularity. Anyone getting their underwear in a bunch over the other team....well, enough said.

All the trash talking, 'superior' thinking and quoting or ignoring of stats/facts combined with personal interpretation is akin to a gradeschool argument at recess.....mildly interesting if you are a bystander but completely irrelevant.

~J~ and I will continue being proud of our teams. Both of us played basketball at a decent level (D1 for J) and appreciate the seasons they are having.

Enough already.

[AZ BLAZER]

I got so tired of Bgil spouting about SOS and how Portland has not been ahead of the Lakers in SOS this year as I contend I have compiled some numbers for him. What this table shows is the record of each teams opponents at the point where Portland and LA had both played 5 games, 10 games, 15 games, 17 games (the last PDX loss prior to the 13 game win streak) and then through game 25.

I compiled these numbers this way; game one was a throw out since both teams had 0-0 records. Also, in Portlands last win NJ came into the game with a record of 18-18. That is the opponent record that would be entered into the numbers, not the result of the game which left them at 18-19. This formula was followed for every game for both the Lakers and Blazers.

Game 5 PDX OPP REC 8-2 SOS .800
LAL OPP REC 6-4 SOS .600

GAME 10 PDX OPP REC 27-18 SOS .600
LAL OPP REC 30-21 SOS .588

GAME 15 PDX OPP REC 59-48 SOS .551
LAL OPP REC 61-51 SOS .545

GAME 17 PDX OPP REC 83-56 SOS .597
LAL OPP REC 86-60 SOS .589

GAME 25 PDX OPP REC 168-134 SOS .556
LAL OPP REC 167-143 SOS .539

Portland actually had a higher SOS (.542 to .526) through the first 28 games that the Blazers and Lakers played. Portland played game 28 on Christmas day. That was their 11th straight win of 13. The streak was almost over and Portland still had a higher SOS than the Lakers. Interesting!

I do not care about point differential. Portland was not the same team through the first 17 games of the season as they are now. They suffered six double digit loses (with three loses by nine points) while only winning one double digit game through those first 17 games. In the past 20 games Portland has ten double digit wins while suffering one single ten point loss in the past 20 games.

What these numbers show is that Portland had a higher SOS than the Lakers through the first 28 games of the season. Both teams are now relatively even now. Portland was not a good team for 21% of the season. They have been a very good team (.900 win percentage) for 24% of the season with 55% of the season left.

The Lakers have been a consistent team with a some what easier schedule to start the season. The schedules are pretty even at this point. Portland was 5-0 with out Aldridge, who at the time was the leading rebounder and scorer at the time. The Lakers are now w/o Bynum for some games. Later on we can look at how the Lakers have fared w/o Bynum vs how Portland did w/o Aldridge. At the same time we can see if Portland continues to be a winning team. If they do then it will indicate that the beginning of the season was not the norm for the team, the winning is the norm. They just had to learn how to win. My money says they will continue to win.

Lets check back in a month or so. We need to see if Portland keeps winning and what the Lakers do w/o Bynum.

[DaVoiceMaster]

One of my best friends is a big Laker fan...I'm a Blazer fan. Both teams are doing much better than either of us thought or better than most of their fans or the pundits thought. Why isn't that good enough?

Kobe is great and Roy is better than most people know. The rest of the players make up the supporting cast that is helping both teams get to where they are. They are beating the teams they play with regularity. Anyone getting their underwear in a bunch over the other team....well, enough said.

All the trash talking, 'superior' thinking and quoting or ignoring of stats/facts combined with personal interpretation is akin to a gradeschool argument at recess.....mildly interesting if you are a bystander but completely irrelevant.

~J~ and I will continue being proud of our teams. Both of us played basketball at a decent level (D1 for J) and appreciate the seasons they are having.

Enough already.

Let this be the end!

[Bgil]

I got so tired of Bgil spouting about SOS and how Portland has not been ahead of the Lakers in SOS this year as I contend I have compiled some numbers for him. What this table shows is the record of each teams opponents at the point where Portland and LA had both played 5 games, 10 games, 15 games, 17 games (the last PDX loss prior to the 13 game win streak) and then through game 25.

I compiled these numbers this way; game one was a throw out since both teams had 0-0 records. Also, in Portlands last win NJ came into the game with a record of 18-18. That is the opponent record that would be entered into the numbers, not the result of the game which left them at 18-19. This formula was followed for every game for both the Lakers and Blazers.

Game 5 PDX OPP REC 8-2 SOS .800
LAL OPP REC 6-4 SOS .600

GAME 10 PDX OPP REC 27-18 SOS .600
LAL OPP REC 30-21 SOS .588

GAME 15 PDX OPP REC 59-48 SOS .551
LAL OPP REC 61-51 SOS .545

GAME 17 PDX OPP REC 83-56 SOS .597
LAL OPP REC 86-60 SOS .589

GAME 25 PDX OPP REC 168-134 SOS .556
LAL OPP REC 167-143 SOS .539

Portland actually had a higher SOS (.542 to .526) through the first 28 games that the Blazers and Lakers played. Portland played game 28 on Christmas day. That was their 11th straight win of 13. The streak was almost over and Portland still had a higher SOS than the Lakers. Interesting!

I do not care about point differential. Portland was not the same team through the first 17 games of the season as they are now. They suffered six double digit loses (with three loses by nine points) while only winning one double digit game through those first 17 games. In the past 20 games Portland has ten double digit wins while suffering one single ten point loss in the past 20 games.

What these numbers show is that Portland had a higher SOS than the Lakers through the first 28 games of the season. Both teams are now relatively even now. Portland was not a good team for 21% of the season. They have been a very good team (.900 win percentage) for 24% of the season with 55% of the season left.

The Lakers have been a consistent team with a some what easier schedule to start the season. The schedules are pretty even at this point. Portland was 5-0 with out Aldridge, who at the time was the leading rebounder and scorer at the time. The Lakers are now w/o Bynum for some games. Later on we can look at how the Lakers have fared w/o Bynum vs how Portland did w/o Aldridge. At the same time we can see if Portland continues to be a winning team. If they do then it will indicate that the beginning of the season was not the norm for the team, the winning is the norm. They just had to learn how to win. My money says they will continue to win.

Lets check back in a month or so. We need to see if Portland keeps winning and what the Lakers do w/o Bynum.

The clear bull in your post is that 17 of your wins come from this Dec 3rd to Jan 9th. During that time the Blazers played 5 games against teams that would currently be in the playoffs in the West (i.e. not Toronto). GS and Denver are 4 of those games. 12 of those 17 were played at home... your SOS mark (which is completely contrary to EVERYTHING that we have all seen on ESPN.com and USATODAY in the last few weeks) doesn't take in to account the games played at home vs on the road.

That's your delusional view of the thread.

Page 12, Blazer fan claims they are only scared of PHX and SA. You're delusional.

Q. How is having the 7th hardest SOS in the NBA favorable or fortunate to the Blazers success so far? A. Clearly it's not.

At least 20 of those wins came against comp that won't couldn't make the playoffs in the west (played at home) + a slumping Utah team. At certain points during your streak (as I noted earlier) you had the weakest schedule in the league for L10. you have the lowest margin of victory for any team with a winning record and your starting PG and leading bench scorer are shooting ridiculous percentages during that streak.

THAT INFLATED THEIR RECORD, period.


They started the season with 3 games on the road and came up with 3 losses. The next road trip they went 0-4. The next road trip they went 1-2 only beating Memphis by 1. The next road trip they went 2-1 beating MN and CHI. On their current roadtrip they are 3-3 beating NJ, MIA, and ATL.

Are you impressed by the Blazers win streak? Why turn a thread about what teams the Blazers would (theoretically obviously) match up well with in the West into: Why Bgil thinks the Blazers win streak is stupid, dumb and no fun at all bah humbug.

I'm less impressed by your streak than I am of the DEN and GS streaks from the past few seasons. Likewise, I believe your team is just about as good as Den and GS are right now.

[farzi]

I'm glad you felt the need to bump this after a week.

[Charlie78]

Page 12, Blazer fan claims they are only scared of PHX and SA. You're delusional.

I just want to clarify because that is me that said that. I am only scared of those two teams because I legitimatly beleive we would be swept by those two teams. Every other playoff team I think we at least have a chance of being competitive. By that I mean win 2 or more games in a playoff series since you seem to need everything spelled out for you. I would be more than satisfied with the blazers taking any team to a six game series, I consider that a huge step for this team.

Your problem is you are stuck on hating our streak when everyone else has already moved on. We have played half the season at this point. If you look at the remaining games for the season we have a much easier schedule to finish the season than we did to start http://www.boxscorebasketball.com/strength.htm As do you. So why should we expect them to perform worse over the second half than they have in the first.

You have focused in on bashing our streak yet you ignore the fact that we have played great basketball. You bash us for a 3-3 road trip when that included two back to backs and two games that started before 11 oclock our time. You fail to mention that we went double overtime in one of those games and came out the next day and smacked a playoff team. So how about you go away, everyone knows you want to hate on the blazers for some unknown reason and not give them any props. But heres a novel thought how about you do more than read all the statistical sites and actually watch a game or two then you might understand what the blazers are about.

[BiggieSmalls]

u people are crazy, i think that portland and LAL and NO are going to be the three best teams in the west for the next few years, they all play team oriented basketball and have a playing making star to run the show. i would say portland has the best chance to be the most successful because of their depth and chemistry is outstanding. with the lakers kobe is finally learning how to make others around him better and he still has the ability to take over a game if he absolutely needed to(elimination game in playoff series or something). the hornets have a very solid starting five, they all compliment each other very well, there problem is there bench but that can be helped through free agency.

If you were to ask me what the west standings are going to look like in 2 years:
1.Blazers 60-22
2.Lakers 58-24
3.Hornets 55-27

I think they would be the top three in the standings, all of them being division winners. and once the playoffs started it would really be a toss up as to who would come out of the west.
Im a blazer fan, and i have seen all of these teams play many times, and i tried to make this as unbiased as i could.

And the connection with those three teams is that they all have great coaching, phil jackson, nate mcmillan, and byron scott are leaders for coach of the year this year, not in that order.

[Hypz]

Houston or Golden State, in my own opinion..

[ffz2000]

1st post! BUMP...

[ubernathan]

u people are crazy, i think that portland and LAL and NO are going to be the three best teams in the west for the next few years, they all play team oriented basketball and have a playing making star to run the show. i would say portland has the best chance to be the most successful because of their depth and chemistry is outstanding. with the lakers kobe is finally learning how to make others around him better and he still has the ability to take over a game if he absolutely needed to(elimination game in playoff series or something). the hornets have a very solid starting five, they all compliment each other very well, there problem is there bench but that can be helped through free agency.

If you were to ask me what the west standings are going to look like in 2 years:
1.Blazers 60-22
2.Lakers 58-24
3.Hornets 55-27

I think they would be the top three in the standings, all of them being division winners. and once the playoffs started it would really be a toss up as to who would come out of the west.
Im a blazer fan, and i have seen all of these teams play many times, and i tried to make this as unbiased as i could.

And the connection with those three teams is that they all have great coaching, phil jackson, nate mcmillan, and byron scott are leaders for coach of the year this year, not in that order.

The Hornets won't be an elite team, because sooner or later injuries will catch up with them.

The Blazers are a nice story, but they aren't any good. Greg Oden is going to be a cripple. Aldridge is soft, and everyone else on the team is pretty much garbage.

The Lakers aren't going to do anything. Bynum is overrated, Kobe is going downhill, and Odom is a numbskull.

[Iggyemu]

Houston or Golden State, in my own opinion..

As a Rocket fan...I would love to face the Blazers in the playoffs. They can't beat us. I am confident in that. Yao had 0 impact in the 4th quarter and we still put it on em tonight.

[Fitz303]

-= original quote snipped =-



As a Rocket fan...I would love to face the Blazers in the playoffs. They can't beat us. I am confident in that. Yao had 0 impact in the 4th quarter and we still put it on em tonight.

The Rockets are just a very bad matchup for the Blazers. It didnt help that we shot a season low 36%, but we just got beat.. The Rockets are a great rebounding team, and the Blazers are an awful rebounding team. I would not like to have to face the Rockets. I would be much more happy to face the Jazz, Nuggets, Warriors, or even the Hornets to be honest.

[farzi]

-= original quote snipped =-



The Hornets won't be an elite team, because sooner or later injuries will catch up with them.

The Blazers are a nice story, but they aren't any good. Greg Oden is going to be a cripple. Aldridge is soft, and everyone else on the team is pretty much garbage.

The Lakers aren't going to do anything. Bynum is overrated, Kobe is going downhill, and Odom is a numbskull.

Has so much hate ever been spewed in one post before?