ESPN's response to the Shaq trade

AdamTheGreek · Post #21 » by **AdamTheGreek** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:29 pm

Any person with common sense knows that this was a playoff trade.

PlinkingPanda · Post #22 » by **PlinkingPanda** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:14 pm

AdamTheGreek wrote:Any person with common sense knows that this was a playoff trade.

Too bad a lot of the posters on these boards don't have it. :wink:

Nebroc · Post #23 » by **Nebroc** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:44 pm

Just because you make a trade for the playoffs doesn't mean you can't realize it was a horrific failure before the playoffs start.

The Notic · Post #24 » by **The Notic** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:01 pm

j-far wrote:WHats the point? Let us know when ESPN is proved wrong in this case.

The point being, the sample size they chose to critique was not representative enough to make a definitive stance on the trade.

That, expecting the team to gel that quickly is almost unfair, thus the unwarranted hate, thus the point of this thread, "Are the experts being fair".

eyejayem · Post #25 » by **eyejayem** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:07 pm

I actually kind of agree with the poster though saying that they are going to win the championship is a bit much.

They dont click as much like they did when they had Marion but they won a whole lot of games but teams that they had problems with, were stopping them in 7 game series.

Shaq takes out their abilities to stack wins in the season but will definately benefit them in 7 game series against Spurs, Utah , and now the Lakers.
Shaq could be 55 he still wears a team down in a 7 game series while Marion guarding Tim Duncan in a 7 game series wont take as much as Stoudemire guarding him.

He really helps them out in the playoffs but in the season not so much.

chrbal · Post #26 » by **chrbal** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:38 pm

Shaq makes them better (???) for the playoffs, but the West is just insanely strong. Not to mention it won't help if they can't make it past round 1.

Not to mention 10 and 10, no matter who he is, is not worth $20 million a year.

But hey he could suddenly get really good and not have problems with all the talent out west.

Ming Kong! · Post #27 » by **Ming Kong!** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:48 pm

They were a team built for the regular season with Marion, and now the current team is on a 4 game winning streak, and they haven't slid that far, tied for 3rd now, 1 game behind of LA who they'll likely pass by the end of the week since LA is missing Gasol, and Houston has a very tough schedule ahead of them, so they could end up being 1st in a week or two.

If this experiment works and they win a title, then I'd say it was worth it. In the end, Marion was disgruntled, and wasn't going to take the team to the promise land. I can't say I really believe Shaq will come back at the same level for much longer, but by the time Shaq is done, there will be tons of cap room to sign who ever. I do believe that the Suns should have traded for Gasol or some other player, but lets just sit back now and see how it pans out.

thamadkant · Post #28 » by **thamadkant** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:51 pm

I love Marion and appreciated everything he did for the Suns.

But pretty much, the Suns werent going anywhere with a 6'10 C and a 6'7 PF. Just too small, second worst rebounding team in the league, even with Marion's 10+. why?.. again, too small. No one boxes out and clogs the key. Although Marion was a very good perimeter defender as he could do a decent job on a lot of players. Still, the lack of big man in the middle, it put Amare in a lot of foul trouble, it also lead to the Suns simply getting beat down and teams exposed it. The Gasol trade pushed it to the limit, as the Lakers all of a sudden have 3 HUGE legit players upfront.

Now? Suns are +5 against teams in rebounding, as opposed to -10 or something close to that. Thats A HUGE difference nonetheless.

The perimeter defense is shocking, just bad... some people here can score 10 points given the amount of open looks you will get with the Suns perimeter defense... its like no one tries anymore... its an exageration but you get the point.

But, the Suns are bigger and it has allowed Amare to be a weak side defender as opposed to getting torched as he is a meriocre one on one defender. He is also free to roam around, and he is averaging close to 30 points, as he is guarded by players his size and he is allowed to play in the 15 foot range as Shaq stays inside....

Shaq in the last 4 games have shown some energy and apparently has gotten better in shape, losing weight too. No doubt due to the Suns running in practice and all game. I think another 10 games and Shaq's fitness will be his best in 3 years. One thing he has done well already is cheer the Suns up back in the locker room, with Marion, he was very professional, but everyone was "down" on themselves... hunger was gone. Now... Im not so sure about hunger, but atleast they are laughing a lot with Shaq.

NetsNash13 · Post #29 » by **NetsNash13** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:07 pm

Nebroc wrote:Just because you make a trade for the playoffs doesn't mean you can't realize it was a horrific failure before the playoffs start.

How was it a horrific failure? Your post history seems to suggest you are anti-suns so I guess I can forgive you for being a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) and passing judgement based on it.

Nebroc · Post #30 » by **Nebroc** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:21 pm

I'm a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) for realizing that your franchise has been a utter failure. Don't cry just because you have three MVP trophys in Phoenix but not a single championship trophy. It's OK. Maybe in year two of this failed experiment afte missing the playoffs due to being weighed down by Shaqs gigantic contract you can get that Rubio fellow and you guys will finally get a point guard who isn't soft as a little girl and can actually play defence. Miami is getting Beasly... I guess this Shaq trade has been a smashing sucess since you guys copped wins from the Spurs on a off day and a drunken Celtic team even if every point guard in the NBA has ripped you a new one since. After all it's not like they have alot of good guards in the West. Don't have to worry about Nash getting exposed when you have Grant Hill to replace Marion!

NetsNash13 · Post #31 » by **NetsNash13** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:32 pm

Nebroc wrote:I'm a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) for realizing that your franchise has been a utter failure. Don't cry just because you have three MVP trophys in Phoenix but not a single championship trophy. It's OK. Maybe in year two of this failed experiment afte missing the playoffs due to being weighed down by Shaqs gigantic contract you can get that Rubio fellow and you guys will finally get a point guard who isn't soft as a little girl and can actually play defence. Miami is getting Beasly... I guess this Shaq trade has been a smashing sucess since you guys copped wins from the Spurs on a off day and a drunken Celtic team even if every point guard in the NBA has ripped you a new one since. After all it's not like they have alot of good guards in the West. Don't have to worry about Nash getting exposed when you have Grant Hill to replace Marion!

I guess its an utter failure because guards destroy the Suns as they havent for the past couple years WITH Marion. Would you be willing to bet your life the Spurs are going to win it all or even the West? As i said in the other thread, NO team is a lock and just because people like the Lakers doesn't mean you have to try and convince them about the Spurs. No one forgets about them trust me its just too hard for any1 to say they are a lock to win it all. History is against them too!

Nebroc · Post #32 » by **Nebroc** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:44 pm

No team is a lock... except for the Suns. And logic says the Lakers are in the same boat.

NetsNash13 · Post #33 » by **NetsNash13** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:58 pm

Nebroc wrote:No team is a lock... except for the Suns. And logic says the Lakers are in the same boat.

?? Who said the Suns or Lakers are a lock. Lakers are the favorites in my eyes.

Nebroc · Post #34 » by **Nebroc** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:10 pm

I'm talking about a lock to get beat by the Spurs. Much like the way I wouldn't count on the nets to beat the Celtics. And if you don't think the Suns will win it all this year who in the world can you concider this trade sucessful? The suns could atleast "get close" more times if they had Marion instood of having this seemingly 1 year window with shaq.

NetsNash13 · Post #35 » by **NetsNash13** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:26 pm

Nebroc wrote:I'm talking about a lock to get beat by the Spurs. Much like the way I wouldn't count on the nets to beat the Celtics. And if you don't think the Suns will win it all this year who in the world can you concider this trade sucessful? The suns could atleast "get close" more times if they had Marion instood of having this seemingly 1 year window with shaq.

It is nothing like the Nets upsetting the Celtics as that series could be played 5000 times and the Celtics will win 5000 of them. Everyone in the West that has a big man is a legit contender and the Suns fit that bill.
The Suns would not have won in this current western conference with Marion but at least with Shaq they have a better chance.
You also forget how Marion was somewhat of a cancer in the locker room. He always thought he was much better than being the 3rd guy(sometimes 4th if u consider Barbosa) and would let it be known. He also did not like being rumored in trades so all roads led to him opting out after this year and Nash retiring in the next few years.
Do you think a core of Barbosa, Marion and Amare can win it all when Nash retires? If not then this trade was a must and it may or may not work out. All of the other trades besides the KG one were for other lesser SFs that wouldn't have helped. I do not think Marion is worth the max either but will probably get it because a guy like Rashard can. And you know he would have expected it from the Suns who just did not want to give it to him.

BRINGTHEPAIN · Post #36 » by **BRINGTHEPAIN** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:12 am

If you take away the first 10 adjustment games (games that I expected to be even worse than they were) the Suns are a better regular season team than they were with Marion. Just watch them play and you see it. And the aspect of Shaq's game people were worried about is actually his strength, he is in love with hustling and not struggling at all with the pace of the game. He is also not fouling out.

NetsNash13 · Post #37 » by **NetsNash13** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:14 am

BRINGTHEPAIN wrote:If you take away the first 10 adjustment games (games that I expected to be even worse than they were) the Suns are a better regular season team than they were with Marion. Just watch them play and you see it. And the aspect of Shaq's game people were worried about is actually his strength, he is in love with hustling and not struggling at all with the pace of the game. He is also not fouling out.

Agree 100% and great win vs. Celtics minus Ray Allen by the Spurs at home.

Nebroc · Post #38 » by **Nebroc** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:22 am

Being a 8 seed and facing a T-mac lead team with no Yao or a very unexperienced hornets team that's never been anywhere before>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Going up against Dallas- the only team to beat us in the playoffs since the Kobe/Shaq days. Don't let records fool you. Playing The rockets, Lakers, or Hornets would be alot better then facing the mavs in the playoffs.