A big misconception about the Nuggets

[MHZ]

Camby might be the most overrated defensive player in the NBA though..sadly, blocks go a long way for the DPOY voters..

I actually think it is quite sad that he is often not even the best defender on his team, hey.... BLOCKS!!! OMG.

Most of the time that's the case. K-Mart's just a better overall defensive player.

[Phobo_Phile]

I don't really have an opinion but I do want to say this.

When we played Denver over on the Pistons board we had a bunch of posters come on and say "Denver is a great defensive team you guys don't know anything" and they were posting all those same stats that OP posted. Yeah, we ended up dropping 136 in the game. Which for Detroit is a very high point total. Season high in regulation and I don't think it's even close.

[kevC]

Here's a concept guys, when you shoot more, you score more! PACE MATTERS.

[carrottop12]

They have terrible rotations and it kills them.

[L-Burna89]

They've dropped two spots from 6th for the 1st half of the season, then 7th more recently, and now 8th...

106.6(NO), 106.7(LA), 106.7(DAL), 106.9(DEN)

That is the difference from 5th and 8th in the league right now. One pretty good defensive game(or **** one) can move a team from 5th to 8th, not really as big of deal as you try to make it sound like.

One thing about pace is if you are very high paced, both teams play a little sloppy and value each possession less, making the points per possession a little lower. Can the Nuggets defense force the stops when it counts? I really don't know I havent watched them much but I think that's really the key to being a good defensive team.

Ok, then explain why none of the other fast paced teams were able to luck into having a defensive ranking....

Denver Nuggets: #1 in pace, 8th in defense
Golden State Warriors: #2 in pace, 22nd in defense
Indiana Pacers: #3 in pace, 16th in defense
Phoenix Suns: #4 in pace, 15th in defense
Seattle SuperSonics: #5 in pace, 24th in defense
Los Angeles Lakers: #6 in pace, 6th in defense
Memphis Grizzlies: #7 in pace, 28th in defense
Sacramento Kings: #8 in pace, 26th in defense

Besides the Lakers, playing fast hasn't translated to better defense for anyone. In fact, most of the best defensive teams are at the very bottom of the league in terms of pace(17, 21, 28, 30, 27, 24).



The Nuggets may not be a traditionally great defensive team, but it gets the job done pretty well. And certainly, certainly, they're not as bad as all the analysts make them out to be.....at worst they're average, if you don't believe in the pp100 rankings.

[milehigh]

What really pisses me off is when I hear that without Camby on this team we would be horrible. A Nene/K-Mart frontcourt would be way more sound defensively. Camby gambles too much to get blocks and when he doesn't have a shot to block he doesn't even try.

AI
Diawara
Melo
K-Mart
Nene

I would not mind seeing that lineup at all it would be very defensively sound, without removing our two stars from the lineup.

[Optimus_Steel]

I think i rather trust my eyes than use Per whatever stats. They def dont look like a good defensive team.

[HarlemHeat37]

I find Denver's offense to be overrated by many..

#1 pace, 11th ranked offense..
#2 in pace is Golden State with a 4th ranked offense..
#4 in pace is Phoenix with a 1st ranked offense..
#6 in pace is LA with a 3rd ranked offense..

the 2 teams in between are Seattle and Indiana, who don't belong anywhere near the discussion..

Denver has a great offense, but I think there's a misconception about how good their offense really is..the fact that they have a high pace makes me think that's why so many people regard them as such a great offensive team..

[Ballings7]

They've dropped two spots from 6th for the 1st half of the season, then 7th more recently, and now 8th...

106.6(NO), 106.7(LA), 106.7(DAL), 106.9(DEN)

That is the difference from 5th and 8th in the league right now. One pretty good defensive game(or **** one) can move a team from 5th to 8th, not really as big of deal as you try to make it sound like.

Okay.

It actually was just something I noticed as an add-on to my post, and obviously didn't put any emphasis on it. Considering my post wasn't based on that quote, it was seperate from the rest. It's minor, but I decided to point it out because it was a change.

What is a big deal is Denver's defensive problems, and not being a proven, respectable defensive team over time.

Here's a concept guys, when you shoot more, you score more! PACE MATTERS.

Unless in a certain situation, it (high pace) means significantly less in the playoffs (and in general against balanced, versatile teams). That especially has been so for the Nuggets.

[ambiglight]

I am tired of ignorant posters/media people saying that the Nuggets can't defend.

They are 8th in the league in defense allowing 102.6 points per 100 possessions. In fact, they are a better defensive team than they are an offensive team. They are currently 11th in the league in offense, scoring 107.2 points per 100 possessions.

Where does this misconception stem from? PACE. They are the fasted paced team in the league with a pace factor of 101.8 edging the Warriors' 101.2. Fast pace does NOT equal good offense OR bad defense.

Thats part of it but a lot of it has to do with the bad defender labels that some of their players have. AI and carmello both are considered poor defenders especially AI. So generally when people see them getting scored on the assumption is that the scoring must be as a result of bad defense. In truth denver has a good defensive scheme for the personnel that they have. They try to force everybody into the interior and they kind of concede the three point line. This is fine when you're dealing with teams that can't knock down shots from distance but they get in trouble with the good three point shooting teams.Which are most of the better teams in the west.

There real problem is on the offensive end. Camby hangs out on the three point line. They refuse to play JR consistently. And Carmelo is turnover prone at the wrong times.

So the vast majority of their flaws are surmountable. They just need to get camby moving to the basket, play JR more, and convince melo to pass the ball out of double teams instead of forcing it. On the defensive end they just need to stop giving up so many second chance shots.

[e in boulder]

Detroit dropped 130 on em, trust me they are a bad defensive team.

[Patterns]

Detroit dropped 130 on em, trust me they are a bad defensive team.

And the Lakers toyed with them 3 times already. I know they're not a good defensive team. Maybe when they want to, they can be but against good teams, they're usually not.

[Death Knight]

All I know is that Denver and Golden State are both great teams for fantasy basketball.

[corona]

Detroit dropped 130 on em, trust me they are a bad defensive team.

i really dislike these posts...and there have been quite a few in this thread.

there's no question that denver's an inconsistent defensive team. they're putrid at times, but also really good at times. they're generally full of themselves offensively and think they can win that way in the regular season...even though they're pretty average. so it comes as no surprise (in fact i fully expected it) that after they scored 168 points against the sonics....they'd come out and half-ass it defensively and try to win the game on the offensive end. and they did, and failed miserably.

why gather so much from one game if you know a teams inconsistent at something?
they held the spurs to 77 points and 37% shooting earlier this season...does it make them the best defensive team in the league? no...one game.

but being very good against san antonio in the playoffs last year does tell me a little more....as does watching the team on a regular basis. when they're motivated (in the playoffs or in random games throughout the season after they get embarrassed or lose a couple straight games)...they're a very good defensive team. they lose the majority of games (they do) in the regular season, and they lost all 4 in the playoffs last year because their offense failed them. multiple under-20 quarters, bad shooting percentages, and limited perimeter shot making.

The best defenders out of there are Carter, Diawara, and Kleiza. But the first two have different flaws and questions preventing them from being what's needed defensively.

kleiza's one of denver's best defenders?
i'm not sure you've been watching the team enough. kleiza plays hard, but he's just not good/quick...etc physically. despite his reputation, i'd say smith is better.

opp. offensive rebounds: 12.7, #28
opp. 3PM: 7.5, #28
opp. 3P%: 37%, #21
opp. points in the paint: 40.2, #25

it should go without saying that they'll rank near the bottom in those categories when they play 98 possessions a game.
pace adjust them to the rest of the league and they don't look nearly as bad.