Realgm wiretap article gets pwnd

Post #21 » by **semi-sentient** » Fri Jun 6, 2008 4:54 am

lol...

TheSheriff · Post #22 » by **TheSheriff** » Fri Jun 6, 2008 5:00 am

T-Mac United wrote:Christopher Reina: 1
Kelly Dwyer: 0

Bad day to post this thread.

magicfan4life05 · Post #23 » by **magicfan4life05** » Fri Jun 6, 2008 5:02 am

so which poster wrote the article

Miami's Finest · Post #24 » by **Miami's Finest** » Fri Jun 6, 2008 5:39 am

9 for 26 usually loses no study is needed for that. But the article is right, the lakers shot a decent % tonight except for kobe and he shot them out of the game, if he shot less the lakers have a better chance to win.

Post #25 » by **BrooklynBulls** » Fri Jun 6, 2008 6:00 am

I'm not sure JGeils, thats the poster's name, is arguing that the research is worthless. Just the conclusion that comes out of it is wrong. Frankly, I agree. Reina really doesn't talk about WHY 20 shots is the qualifier for a ballhog, nor does it adjust for minutes played (if Kobe shoots 19 times in 25 minutes in a huge blowout, but 20 in 50 minutes in an OT loss, what does this statistic reflect?).

Kobe's gotten a reputation as a "changed man" in the media. As a guy who will NOW defer to his teammates. But he always wanted to defer to teammates. He's a VERY smart ball player. He has no desire to launch low quality shots. Now that the teammates around him are GOOD, he may pass a tiny bit more. But the big difference is that they make their shots now.

To make the study a bit more valid, examine games where he shoots 20 times or less, and 25 times or more. Accept only games with a range of 34-44 minutes (or something like that). Examine the context of these games to evaluate the significance of such research. Then it'll be a more honest analysis.

Miami's Finest · Post #26 » by **Miami's Finest** » Fri Jun 6, 2008 6:05 am

BrooklynBulls wrote:
Kobe's gotten a reputation as a "changed man" in the media. As a guy who will NOW defer to his teammates. But he always wanted to defer to teammates. He's a VERY smart ball player. He has no desire to launch low quality shots. Now that the teammates around him are GOOD, he may pass a tiny bit more. But the big difference is that they make their shots now.

So i'm guessing he got his old teammates back tonight? Tonight his teammates shot a good % but Kobe shot them out of the game by trying to be the man and settling for jumpers while shooting 9 for 26.

Post #27 » by **BrooklynBulls** » Fri Jun 6, 2008 6:12 am

Miami's Finest wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

So i'm guessing he got his old teammates back tonight? Tonight his teammates shot a good % but Kobe shot them out of the game by trying to be the man and settling for jumpers while shooting 9 for 26.

I managed to miss the game tonight, so I can't comment specifically. But he's a scorer first. Looking at the boxscore, Vujacic, Walton, Radmonavic weren't sparkling players tonight. But again, I can't comment.

Kobe's a scorer first. Sometimes, they don't fall. When they don't, its harder to win. Especially on the road, in the damned finals, vs. the winningest team in the league this year.

Maybe that had something to do with them losing. Not him shooting. Just him not making.

Post #28 » by **TMU** » Fri Jun 6, 2008 7:40 am

snaquille oatmeal wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

(picture)

Funny how you dared to respond to your own thread that has been demolished by none other than Mr. Kobe Bryant himself.

I could care less who this Christopher Reina is, but it appears to me that you were upset with his article. "Realgm wiretap article gets pwnd." Really? Dwyer's article which measured nothing but a bunch of subjective claims thrown all over the page.

I want you to read Reina's short article again.
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/ ... e_shooter/
You Kobe fans must understand that it's not attempting to bash Kobe Bryant. It's a simple article that analyzes Kobe's shot attempts in two scenarios (FGA of over 20 and FGA of under 20) and shows where they lead to in the win-loss column. I don't see the author saying "Kobe's a ball-hog" or Kobe should do this and that. On the other hand, Dwyer's attempt to refute those numbers is funny, especially when he has objective arguments to contradict Reina's article nor suggestions to support his criticism.

So game 1... Kobe went 9 - 26, and Lakers lost the game. The series is far from over, but as of now, Reina's numbers seem to translate to the finals.

I am not being a suck-up. Most rational non-Kobe fans will admit that Dwyer's article did nothing to refute Reina's.

You Kobe fans should stop being overly defensive when people talk about Kobe Bryant. It's unhealthy, sometimes it's better off to let things go.

JGeils · Post #29 » by **JGeils** » Fri Jun 6, 2008 9:49 am

[quote="T-Mac United"][/quote]

Nice sample size, mug.

Read more carefully next time. Or, read.

3pt % · Post #30 » by **3pt %** » Fri Jun 6, 2008 11:32 am

The first article points out an interessting fact.

The second article is a 'homer' defence. Nothing wrong with it, and a good piece of passionate fan writting but no 'pwning' going on.

Hunter · Post #31 » by **Hunter** » Fri Jun 6, 2008 11:37 am

Eh, I thought it was a good read and I tend to agree with most of it. I hate stat mongers. The damn things do lie. :-)

Post #32 » by **snaquille oatmeal** » Fri Jun 6, 2008 10:38 pm

T-Mac United wrote:
snaquille oatmeal wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

(picture)

Funny how you dared to respond to your own thread that has been demolished by none other than Mr. Kobe Bryant himself.

I could care less who this Christopher Reina is, but it appears to me that you were upset with his article. "Realgm wiretap article gets pwnd." Really? Dwyer's article which measured nothing but a bunch of subjective claims thrown all over the page.

I want you to read Reina's short article again.
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/ ... e_shooter/
You Kobe fans must understand that it's not attempting to bash Kobe Bryant. It's a simple article that analyzes Kobe's shot attempts in two scenarios (FGA of over 20 and FGA of under 20) and shows where they lead to in the win-loss column. I don't see the author saying "Kobe's a ball-hog" or Kobe should do this and that. On the other hand, Dwyer's attempt to refute those numbers is funny, especially when he has objective arguments to contradict Reina's article nor suggestions to support his criticism.

So game 1... Kobe went 9 - 26, and Lakers lost the game. The series is far from over, but as of now, Reina's numbers seem to translate to the finals.

I am not being a suck-up. Most rational non-Kobe fans will admit that Dwyer's article did nothing to refute Reina's.

You Kobe fans should stop being overly defensive when people talk about Kobe Bryant. It's unhealthy, sometimes it's better off to let things go.

first, understand that the reina article didn't bother me at all.
after all the stats are correct.

I posted the article because it was realgm related not because I was butt hurt about it.

the reason why the Reina article got pwnd was because (and you will relate to this) it was obiously written by somebody that does not watch Kobe play on a regular basis and the counter argument was. yes the counter argument was subjective, but true as well.

last night was a perfect example. stats wise Kobe made the Reina argument true, but if you watch Kobe on a regular basis you would know that the easy looks he got he usually makes.

maybe a handfull of his shots were bad shots due to Celtics defense and he should have deffered to his team mates, but if Kobe would have made the easy look shots that he usually makes, then what?

you have to look beyond the stats. how many of his shots in the 4th did Phil call for him to take? when you have kobe on your squad you insist the ball be in his hands etc.

the counter argument is about the context of the stats, but the hate for Kobe don't allow haters to see it that way.

don't let your hate for Kobe keep you from enjoying a great basketball player.