Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series...

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Result after swapping LeBron for Kawhi

...worse, they wouldnt have won 3 games (explain below)
6
4%
...same, LeBron couldnt have stopped Jokic or scored significantly more to make a difference (explain below)
20
13%
...better, LeBron would have won the series because (explain below)
127
83%
 
Total votes: 153

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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#41 » by Godsplan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:29 pm

I’m not certain. PG just stinks. Playing with Bron wouldn’t help much. I don’t think there’s anything Bron could do about PG. maybe set him up for some off ball cuts?? I’m not sure. PG just stinks in the post season. Easily would be Lebrons worst teammates at a “star” level. Harrell stinks, Lou Williams on defense stinks. Morris is too inconsistent. I’ve seen lebron win with far less talent so I want to say yes but god that team looked so terrible, batchy, just like a lot of talent thrown together with nothing else. I lean towards them losing by 7-10 instead of 20 if they have lebron instead of Kawhi for the simple fact I could see them still not taking things serious and the chemistry being off even with lebron there. Don’t help that Pat bev/Morris would challenge lebron’s authority i bet. That’s another thing too.
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#42 » by The Master » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:29 pm

Arrow wrote:Lol @ eventually catching up to LeBron as a passer.

'When you accidentally show your anti-LeBron agenda' :lol:
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#43 » by Homer38 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:29 pm

Don't blame his teammates...

Read on Twitter
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#44 » by JoeyLightYears » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:29 pm

PaulieWal wrote:Dude, are you even reading the replies in this thread?

Keep in mind that this is what you are conversing with. I mean JFC it's like the insane postings of a QAnon supporter. Disingenuous as can be.
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#45 » by Bornstellar » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:30 pm

Lebron would average a 30 points triple double with that roster around him. His #2 is superior in Davis but the Clippers have so many weapons and LeBron would have gotten the best out of them. Clippers definitely win with LBJ in Nephews place
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#46 » by LesGrossman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:31 pm

JoeyLightYears wrote:The premise of this thread seems to be that Kawhi needed more help.. that it wasn't his fault they lost, but rather that his teammates missed open shots. Overlooking, of course, that Kawhi probably had his worst game in years yesterday.

I'd venture to say that the OP would not give LeBron the same benefit of the doubt should their places be swapped.

Kawhi had a terrible choke game without doubt. He's still young and its not the end of the world, everyone had them including LeBron. Not the point of this thread though. It was a collective meltdown and GB made it like its Kawhi's fault alone, my point was to discuss wether a swap on one position would have made a difference.

We could also discuss swapping PG and AD, and look how this would have ended. Also a very interesting discussion i guess. But please try your best not to make it a personal attack and stick to the topic instead.
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#47 » by nikster » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:32 pm

JoeyLightYears wrote:The premise of this thread seems to be that Kawhi needed more help.. that it wasn't his fault they lost, but rather that his teammates missed open shots. Overlooking, of course, that Kawhi probably had his worst game in years yesterday.

I'd venture to say that the OP would not give LeBron the same benefit of the doubt should their places be swapped.

Nope, Lakers are "loaded" and Kawhi needs more help, Kawhi was "clearly the better player". Guy also has quite the obsession with Lebron stans
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#48 » by mademan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:34 pm

Homer38 wrote:Don't blame his teammates...

Read on Twitter


lines up pretty perfectly with the Clippers second half collapse the last 3 games (though Kawhi did his job in game 5)
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#49 » by JoeyLightYears » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:34 pm

LesGrossman wrote:
JoeyLightYears wrote:The premise of this thread seems to be that Kawhi needed more help.. that it wasn't his fault they lost, but rather that his teammates missed open shots. Overlooking, of course, that Kawhi probably had his worst game in years yesterday.

I'd venture to say that the OP would not give LeBron the same benefit of the doubt should their places be swapped.

Kawhi had a terrible choke game without doubt. He's still young and its not the end of the world, everyone had them including LeBron. Not the point of this thread though. It was a collective meltdown and GB made it like its Kawhi's fault alone, my point was to discuss wether a swap on one position would have made a difference.

We could also discuss swapping PG and AD, and look how this would have ended. Also a very interesting discussion i guess. But please try your best not to make it a personal attack and stick to the topic instead.


Why don't we just swap the entire teams see what happens. We'll have the results in a week or two.

If you are honest with yourself, you know for a fact that if LeBron had this kind of "choke", you and others would be posting nonstop about it and blaming him and him alone, refusing to fault his teammates or credit the other team. We know this because this happened in 2011 (although it wasn't as big of an upset). Since then I'm sure you've been waiting patiently but LeBron has just been too good. Maybe he will next round and then your wish will come true. I wouldn't put money on it though.
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#50 » by nikster » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:36 pm

LesGrossman wrote:
nikster wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:Every season Kawhi adds something to his game - this year i felt he put concious effort into passing (previously iso game, 3pt shooting..). I also wrote theres no denying LeBron as of today is far superior as a play maker. I also dont think there are 15 better guys in the league. At the same time i dont think he is among the top 3 currently, in contrast to guys here hilariously claiming he is "the best ever".

Kawhi isnt suddenly changing from mediocre playmaker to Lebrons elite level just because he tries to add something new to his game. Hes barely a floor general at all. How many possessions did Kawhii initiate? How many times did he bring up the floor, etc....Let alone actually developing elite passing and vision

Well maybe its a language issue. I thought when i wrote he would catch up that the gap between them would shrink. I dont think he'll ever get near to LeBron level because thats just not who he is, but in comparison on that particular skill he looks pretty mediocre right now and he will get better over time. Sorry if i didnt make myself clear here.

Still Dont see how he is getting any where as a floor general. Like Not even top 15. Man just doesnt bother to create for his teammates. How many possessions do we see Kawhi just run up the floor to the corner 3 and just wait for a play to develop, and wait for his iso oppurtunity
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#51 » by LesGrossman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:36 pm

Bornstellar wrote:Lebron would average a 30 points triple double with that roster around him. His #2 is superior in Davis but the Clippers have so many weapons and LeBron would have gotten the best out of them. Clippers definitely win with LBJ in Nephews place

Thanks for that opinion. I have two questions:
1. What happens if we assume he cant change the offense but has to take what Doc runs?
2. There were many weapons, but said weapons missed open shots in the actual game!! What could he have done other than get them open shots, and why would they have made them in contrast to the missed ones in the actual game?
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#52 » by Run DLC » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:37 pm

Mk0 wrote:Pretty sure you swap Jimmy with Kawhi and the Clippers close out the series. For all the talent on paper that Clippers squad doesn't have a leader.

Just look at how good CP3 made everyone on OKC. That wasn't just being a point guard, that is the effect of good leadership.

* Full disclosure I can't stand Chris Paul, but that doesn't mean I don't respect his leadership.


They don’t see little things like that. It’s all about raw scoring stats to them. As the best player on the roster or in the league, you got to have a few head coach traits within you in terms of being able to guide your team when things are tough and being able to manage a lot of egos. If you look at the Lakers roster with the exception of AD, it’s a roster full of misfit personalities. Rondo, Dion, Kuzma, Howard, etc, from the outside looking in seem to be the types who want to do things their own way and think they’re better than they actually are. It’s hard to manage those type of massive egos and bring out the best out of those guys with a Kawhi’s or KD’s lackadaisical style of leadership.
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#53 » by LesGrossman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:40 pm

JoeyLightYears wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:
JoeyLightYears wrote:The premise of this thread seems to be that Kawhi needed more help.. that it wasn't his fault they lost, but rather that his teammates missed open shots. Overlooking, of course, that Kawhi probably had his worst game in years yesterday.

I'd venture to say that the OP would not give LeBron the same benefit of the doubt should their places be swapped.

Kawhi had a terrible choke game without doubt. He's still young and its not the end of the world, everyone had them including LeBron. Not the point of this thread though. It was a collective meltdown and GB made it like its Kawhi's fault alone, my point was to discuss wether a swap on one position would have made a difference.

We could also discuss swapping PG and AD, and look how this would have ended. Also a very interesting discussion i guess. But please try your best not to make it a personal attack and stick to the topic instead.


Why don't we just swap the entire teams see what happens. We'll have the results in a week or two.

If you are honest with yourself, you know for a fact that if LeBron had this kind of "choke", you and others would be posting nonstop about it and blaming him and him alone, refusing to fault his teammates or credit the other team. We know this because this happened in 2011 (although it wasn't as big of an upset). Since then I'm sure you've been waiting patiently but LeBron has just been too good. Maybe he will next round and then your wish will come true. I wouldn't put money on it though.

Again, that is a completely different series with different players involved. Just comparing how the Lakers role players hit the open threes in contrast to the Clippers bunch, it would say NOTHING about how the two guys compare. Its almost like the question seems uncomfortable...

And as for your argument that people would point out LeBron's choke jobs. Do you not think that his self promoting in contrast to Kawhi's very quiet persona brings much of this upon him? I mean when and where did Kawhi call himself the GOAT? You cant do that and expect to get a pass if you choke. So yeah at some point different treatment is warranted and self inflicted imho.
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#54 » by homecourtloss » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:40 pm

LesGrossman wrote:...not changing anything else, particularily the performance (or lack of) of everyone else including the coach of the clippers. Do you believe the result would have been worse, equal or better?

To me, the key reasons for the three losses after being up double digit leads were not primarily in Kawhi's hands. There is no competent play making on the clippers, true; but still, just looking at that last game, guys got more than enough open shots to close the Nuggets out. I didnt feel like Kawhi got them, which probably contributed to his miserable shooting, but theres a difference between missing a tough contested shot or an open short corner 3 that is your bread and butter (hitting the side of the backboard... :lol: ) , or missing layups and floaters. So

1. Guys didnt make the shots their offense generated for them,
2. The coaching didnt at all react to Jokic, instead sticked with Trez instead of the other options,
3. Coaching didnt react to choking and runs by the Nuggets.

All in all i do not believe that it would have made any difference to swap Kawhi for LeBron here, given the rest remains the same, looking at those last three games. Whats your ideas?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

3,000+ posts of basically LeBron bashing and now you post this after all your Kawhi this and Durant that and Giannis, etc.

LeBron would tear through the league with the Clippers’ roster. It’s tailor made for him man.

Lol
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#55 » by donnieme » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:40 pm

Actually this series showed a flaw in Kawhi's passing. In the last couple games they would have 3 guys collapse on Kawhi right when he gathered to shoot, as opposed to collapsing on the drive, Kawhi showed inexperience as a focal point and a passer where the likes of Lebron or even Doncic can generate a split second kick out from any motion.
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#56 » by PaulieWal » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:41 pm

donnieme wrote:Actually this series showed a flaw in Kawhi's passing. In the last couple games they would have 3 guys collapse on Kawhi right when he gathered to shoot, as opposed to collapsing on the drive, Kawhi showed inexperience as a focal point and a passer where the likes of Lebron or even Doncic can generate a kick out from any motion


But hey Kawhi is going to catch up to Lebron as a playmaker lol
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#57 » by LesGrossman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:42 pm

JoeyLightYears wrote:
PaulieWal wrote:Dude, are you even reading the replies in this thread?

Keep in mind that this is what you are conversing with. I mean JFC it's like the insane postings of a QAnon supporter. Disingenuous as can be.

I've actually tried my best to keep the discussion in here as rational and civilized as possible while you keep divertinng the topic and attacking me personally.
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#58 » by LesGrossman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:43 pm

donnieme wrote:Actually this series showed a flaw in Kawhi's passing. In the last couple games they would have 3 guys collapse on Kawhi right when he gathered to shoot, as opposed to collapsing on the drive, Kawhi showed inexperience as a focal point and a passer where the likes of Lebron or even Doncic can generate a split second kick out from any motion.

That is a very good point, it reminded me of undeveloped Dirk who took multiple seasons to learn how to pass out of double and triple teams. THank you.
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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#59 » by Benedict_Boozer » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:46 pm

LesGrossman wrote:Again theres no question that LeBron is superior playmaker (Kawhi improved this season and will eventually catch up), but my point was that guys got open shots actually! They just continued to choke and miss in the 2nd half of games.


Eh no, he will never catch up. Court awareness and passing skill like that is an innate skill you either have or don’t. The great passers don’t “learn it”, they always have it.

He can get better at reading double teams and passing out of them, but if you seriously expect him to equal Lebron as a passer.....ehh don’t hold your breath.

Btw respect to you for showing up on here after the debacle yesterday, takes some guts!


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Re: Swap Kawhi and Lebron in the Nuggets series... 

Post#60 » by JoeyLightYears » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:47 pm

LesGrossman wrote:
JoeyLightYears wrote:
PaulieWal wrote:Dude, are you even reading the replies in this thread?

Keep in mind that this is what you are conversing with. I mean JFC it's like the insane postings of a QAnon supporter. Disingenuous as can be.

I've actually tried my best to keep the discussion in here as rational and civilized as possible while you keep divertinng the topic and attacking me personally.


I'm just reporting what I'm seeing, my man. People might want to know what your true thoughts on the matter are. Like, I'm not going to engage in a political discussion with Alex Jones because I know that it won't go anywhere.

Why don't you just say what you really want to say instead of playing this passive aggressive game to try to somehow use a series that has nothing to do with LeBron against him?

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