Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever?

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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#41 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:02 am

Man, people are putting some trash above AI.

Dude put up 30+ multiple times at 6 foot 165lbs, put some respect on his name.
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#42 » by BoatsNZones » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:13 am

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:Man, people are putting some trash above AI.

Dude put up 30+ multiple times at 6 foot 165lbs, put some respect on his name.

This is lost on the efficiency crowd, especially all those who haven't seen him play. Have to realize he also spent the majority of his career with some of the worst starting offensive players of the generation (no other star player had a worse offensive cast, period). His efficiency immediately jumping while past his prime with a better cast in Denver (still being a 25+ PPG scorer) says everything about that.

Top 10 scorer ever? Tough to say. But I've never seen a better scorer at his size. As an aside, Westbrook would be the closest player I've seen to demonstrating as much effort as a top player on a night to night basis. The slander AI gets is wild. I don't think many of you guys understand how much harder it is to dominate in the NBA as a 6 footer, and he did that. Through the TOUGHEST defensive era (pace/rules wise specifically) of the modern NBA by the way.
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#43 » by Dr Aki » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:20 am

Mujahydeen wrote:
Pelly24 wrote:
SharpyShuffle wrote:This is the thing, people leave the 'skillless' big men off lists like this. Giannis may not have the natural talent of AI, but he's a much better scorer. Beat scorer doesn't mean 'best at getting buckets in ways you find skillful or fun to watch'. It just means 'best at getting buckets'. Once you add in guys like Shaq, Giannis, and Embiid, there's no way AI cracks the top ten


With the bolded, I think there's a mix. If you're assisted on most of your buckets, I wouldn't say you're one of the best scorers in the same way, or I'd detract some of that efficiency value and put you closer to the guy who scores a bit less efficiently but generates more of their own buckets. If it's the end of the game and you are stuck and unable to generate easy looks and take over when needed, that's a big problem.


That depends on the assist, a lot of basic entry passes to Shaq when his teammate was credited with assist were still buckets generated by Shaq where he did the work of establishing position and putting the ball in the basket. It's different than the likes of Clint Capela ending up alone under the basket because someone needed a double team.


Considering how bad some players are at making a post entry pass these days, maybe it's time to consider the post-entry pass a proper skill/lost art
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#44 » by MrBigShot » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:20 am

No. Kareem, LeBron, Kobe, MJ, Dirk, Shaq, Hakeem, KD, Curry, Harden, DWade, Tmac are/were alls superior scorers just to name a handful. Its amazing a player of AI's size was able to be put up the kinds of raw scoring numbers he did, but he's not a top 10 scorer for the same reason Kyrie isn't a better scorer than LeBron: he had to work really damn hard to get his points compared to some of the other guys. His playoff TS% is 48%...that's really rough. Yeah, he was the focus of the defense for those Sixers teams and average efficiency was lower back then than it is now, but it's just difficult to be a top 10 scorer when you have to take so many tough shots and everyone on the court is taller than you.
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#45 » by BarbaGrizz » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:41 am

ElectricMayhem wrote:Efficiency isn't ever entirely an individual stat. When Iverson's out on the court with Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, George Lynch, and Dikembe Mutumbo, the defense pretty much know who's going to take the shot. The fact that he could score as much as he did with no Option B on the team is amazing. Then again, he was never one to want to play with an Option B so his strength was also his downfall.


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Celtic Koala wrote:The only player from the 90's that would have been a top 10 player in the modern league would have been MJ and if you stretch it a bit Olajuwon.
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#46 » by FreeSpiritNY » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:49 am

Not even top 10 in this league.
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#47 » by God Squad » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:53 am

Probably not. But I have a serious soft spot for A.I. He was my Jordan in a lot of ways.
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#48 » by MrPerfect1 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:58 am

SUPERVILLAIN wrote:I don't know. But I will say this.

I can't instantly name 10 guys that I'm certain is a better scorer than Iverson.


I could name 50. The 2 primary metrics to determine how good of a scorer some is Efficiency (how efficientlythey score) + Quantity (how much they score).

Here are 10 just off the Top of my head tjat are vastly better scorers than Iverson.

Giannis >> Iverson
Shaq >> Iverson
Kareem >> Iverson
Wilt >> Iverson
Durant >> Iverson
Harden >> Iverson
Lebron >> Iverson
Jordan >> Iverson
Malone >> Iverson
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#49 » by Jables » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:09 am

What's the argument for him unless you just ignore the fact that he chucked like no one else in the history of the game? I respect his career but I'm not gonna pretend he was an actual top 10 scorer, deadass, one of those 30+ ppg years he wasn't even shooting 40% but people are happy to keep making fun of Kobe?

Yeah Iverson is the best scorer ever then, number 2 I got Pistol Pete, then I can't decide, I gotta put my boy Adrian Dantley but Russell Westbrook has a strong case, seeing as we're completely disregarding reality.
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#50 » by picko » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:58 am

Even if you restrict it to non-bigs I doubt he's a serious contender.

Jordan
LeBron
Durant
Curry
Harden
Kobe
Bird
West
Wilkins
Wade
Barkley
Dr J
Malone

There is no doubt that he was an absolute warrior. I'll always admire him for that. However, there are clearly a lot of guys who were simply better at putting the ball in the basket consistently night-in and night-out.
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#51 » by Narigo » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:13 am

No not even close
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#52 » by hardenASG13 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:23 pm

Without a doubt. Guy had 0 help on offense and did what he did. Any stars efficiency would suffer in that situation, especially one AIs size (he wasnt even 6 feet if you saw him live w good seats). Those saying he didnt want help, how do you know? Because he didnt want to take a back seat to jerry stackhouse and keith van horn? Because larry brown was old school and thought they could win with defense?
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#53 » by Mujahydeen » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:06 pm

hoosierdaddy34 wrote:Wouldn’t it be amazing to to see Iverson with today’s freedom of movement rules and an inability for defenders to just hold him all the time?

The rules are such an advantage to players of today over what The AI and other scorers of his era had to deal with.


His minutes and shot attempts would be scaled back to today's standards, his ppg would suffer.
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#54 » by TravisScott55 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:13 pm

How many players have more than 4 scoring titles?
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#55 » by Bergmaniac » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:44 pm

Top 10 is plain absurd. Even if we limited to the last 30 years, he has no case whatsoever over any of the following:

MJ
Shaq
Kobe
LeBron
Curry
Barkley
KD
Dirk
Harden
Wade
Hakeem
Giannis
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#56 » by nikster » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:45 pm

TravisScott55 wrote:How many players have more than 4 scoring titles?

How many players took as many shots as him? Every year he won he was the leader in FGA, often by a significant margin, while being among the leaders in FTA. In 01-02 he took 5 more shots than the next closest player. He lead the league in FGA 6 times, was 2nd twice, and top 5 another 2 finishes.
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#57 » by Harry Garris » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:59 pm

SharpyShuffle wrote:
Optms wrote:Top ever? No. Top 10 for the last 20 years? Absolutely. In no specific order:

Kobe
Harden
Curry
T-Mac
Lebron
KD
Iverson
Carmelo
Wade
Dirk

Just fell short:

Pierce
Lillard
Arenas
Kyrie
Ray Allen
This is the thing, people leave the 'skillless' big men off lists like this. Giannis may not have the natural talent of AI, but he's a much better scorer. Beat scorer doesn't mean 'best at getting buckets in ways you find skillful or fun to watch'. It just means 'best at getting buckets'. Once you add in guys like Shaq, Giannis, and Embiid, there's no way AI cracks the top ten


Bigs never get any credit on people's individual all time scoring lists. The fact that OP left off Kareem who was the greatest scorer ever by volume is just hilarious. Shaq and Wilt who were the most dominant and unstoppable scorers the NBA has ever seen are also absent.
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#58 » by madmaxmedia » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:39 pm

BoatsNZones wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:Man, people are putting some trash above AI.

Dude put up 30+ multiple times at 6 foot 165lbs, put some respect on his name.

This is lost on the efficiency crowd, especially all those who haven't seen him play. Have to realize he also spent the majority of his career with some of the worst starting offensive players of the generation (no other star player had a worse offensive cast, period). His efficiency immediately jumping while past his prime with a better cast in Denver (still being a 25+ PPG scorer) says everything about that.

Top 10 scorer ever? Tough to say. But I've never seen a better scorer at his size. As an aside, Westbrook would be the closest player I've seen to demonstrating as much effort as a top player on a night to night basis. The slander AI gets is wild. I don't think many of you guys understand how much harder it is to dominate in the NBA as a 6 footer, and he did that. Through the TOUGHEST defensive era (pace/rules wise specifically) of the modern NBA by the way.


God Squad wrote:Probably not. But I have a serious soft spot for A.I. He was my Jordan in a lot of ways.


I think I personally settle this by calling him one of the top 10 most skilled scorers ever, if not an actual top 10 scorer.
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#59 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:46 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:
BoatsNZones wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:Man, people are putting some trash above AI.

Dude put up 30+ multiple times at 6 foot 165lbs, put some respect on his name.

This is lost on the efficiency crowd, especially all those who haven't seen him play. Have to realize he also spent the majority of his career with some of the worst starting offensive players of the generation (no other star player had a worse offensive cast, period). His efficiency immediately jumping while past his prime with a better cast in Denver (still being a 25+ PPG scorer) says everything about that.

Top 10 scorer ever? Tough to say. But I've never seen a better scorer at his size. As an aside, Westbrook would be the closest player I've seen to demonstrating as much effort as a top player on a night to night basis. The slander AI gets is wild. I don't think many of you guys understand how much harder it is to dominate in the NBA as a 6 footer, and he did that. Through the TOUGHEST defensive era (pace/rules wise specifically) of the modern NBA by the way.


God Squad wrote:Probably not. But I have a serious soft spot for A.I. He was my Jordan in a lot of ways.


I think I personally settle this by calling him one of the top 10 most skilled scorers ever, if not an actual top 10 scorer.

The fact that he's doing most of his scoring at the rim is lost on people who didn't actually watch him.
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Re: Is Iverson a top 10 Scorer Ever? 

Post#60 » by Marcus_Shart » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:27 am

To put Iversons chuckery into perspective he averages the 4th most field goal attempts per game in NBA history. Of the top 25 players on this list he has the 3rd lowest field goal percentage. The 2 guys who out chucked him, George Mikan and Joe Fulks. Never heard of them??????? Perhaps that's because you'd have to set the flux capacitor in your DeLorean back to 1955 just to catch their farewell tours.

His numbers are massively inflated by taking an asinine amount of shots, and playing an asinine amount of minutes. It's heroic and all, but it was never really in the best interest of his team and was at best misguided. The little guy thing is overhyped "because Iverson" as well. Nate Archibald did it better before him, and IT did it better after him.

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