After Ricky Rubio, Jonas Valanciunas=International Superstar

[sisibilio]

Well ignoring defense because that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, are raptors fans looking for at Val hopefully averaging like 11 and 11? Basically Biedrins stats when he was good?

His rebounding rate does indicate 11/11 is more likely than 18/7, yes. Looks like Biedrins with excellent free throw shooting is his floor (imo).

He's got a much better touch than Biedrins and already at 19 more variety of post moves that Biedrins ever had. He also has a wider frame that will alow him to bulk up easily once he matures.
Other than being from a baltic country i don't see much similarities between them.

[Mefisto]

No, not really. Upside is Gortat IMO

Wow, you again with nonsense posts, why is that hate for Val? Must be something personal.

[BossHoggin]

Raptors fans arguing with Raptors fans. Why is Mufusa not allowed to have his own opinion. JV hasn't played in the NBA so he could well suck in the NBA. It is *posible*. Let the man have his opinion and drop the elitist attitudes.

[ilikecb4]

Well you guys I wasn't impressed with this pick as Raptors fan...

but the kid's very very talented....

I saw him play live in Eurobasket

He's got some really lenghty arms....he gave Kaman, Krstic, Dirk, Gasol brothers trouble in post...

He alterted a lot of shots and blocked a bunch of shots...

He has to get stronger but he's already decently built....

He's very good at finishing at rim....He's still raw ...and he still fouls too much

He lacks confidence sometimes too which concerns me


If he gets proper NBA training, puts 20 lb of muscle on his frame, get more exlposive, and work on his jumpshot he could be like Gortat....at least

With pick #5 in a so so draft he's great pick

[ilikecb4]

Jonas and Nenad have nothing in common....Krstic has a money midrange shot and great post game..and slow feet, and can't rebound or play defence....oh and krstic is not athletic


Jonas is opposite...rebounds plays defense, has a raw post game and is fairly athletic

[UcanUwill]

Raptors fans arguing with Raptors fans. Why is Mufusa not allowed to have his own opinion. JV hasn't played in the NBA so he could well suck in the NBA. It is *posible*. Let the man have his opinion and drop the elitist attitudes.

Most of he said is not true and thats the problem. Things like

His basketball IQ is average at best

JVal is not a post up threat and is uncomfortable anytime he makes physical contact with a player

Are just non sense...

[Regulio]

"He doesn't dominate EuroCup opponents" is the most ridiculous argument I've seen in a while. How many 19-year old C's you saw dominate playing against grown-up men ?
He was playing like equal against Kaman, Gasol Bros, Mozgov, Ibaka. That must be really discouraging if you are 19... since you didn't dominate, that means you suck.
I can understand how one can dislike a player, but please at least try to be objective.
Can't think of a reason why Valanciunas should fail to at least become 14/10 player or so. Putting on mass is very very very easy that is not a problem.
Basically he has every tool to become a top5-10 center in NBA.
His foul trouble is overstated. Yes it was a problem a year ago, now - not so much. He can pass quite ok, he can rebound, he can shoot from mid-range. Is it really that hard to develop a couple post moves given his soft touch and good body control?
If he avoids injuries, I would be very surprised if he fails to perform in NBA.

[pass first]

Well ignoring defense because that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, are raptors fans looking for at Val hopefully averaging like 11 and 11? Basically Biedrins stats when he was good?

His rebounding rate does indicate 11/11 is more likely than 18/7, yes. Looks like Biedrins with excellent free throw shooting is his floor (imo).

He's got a much better touch than Biedrins and already at 19 more variety of post moves that Biedrins ever had. He also has a wider frame that will alow him to bulk up easily once he matures.
Other than being from a baltic country i don't see much similarities between them.

Yes, I agree (except they're both good rebounders). Bertrob was comparing statlines. I expect Val's statline to be more like Biedrins than Krstic. That was the point.

[sanity]

I'm on the side that says it doesn't mean anything until he steps foot in the NBA.

I want him to succeed and AM a Raptors fan (trust me, it sucks), but I will not proclaim anyone to be the savior of this franchise until they actually amount to something and the team becomes respectable for once. This team is very, VERY bad and it will take a lot more than 1 youngster (or star player---if by chance its true) to turn things around.

[Johnny Firpo]

From what I have seen he can't even dominate Eurocup teams. And before someone goes blaming his teammates it is not like he would get a great supporting cast in Toronto to do miracles on bigger level.

That's just stupid, especially coming from a european fan. A handful of NCAA prospects in basketball history could dominate against professionals. 18-19 years old kids doesn't dominate professionals, whether it be Euroleague, or Eurocup. Not to mention, in Europe, a core player usually plays like 25-26 (max. 28-30) minutes, a young big even less. He shot 66% against the best european teams in the summer, he showed he can score in every level, and his body is nowhere near where it will be in a couple of years. That "he doesn't even dominate against european competition" is an extremely dumb argument, and we saw he it turned out with Rubio.

[lothy]

This kid is a BEAST, he would easily manhandle NCAA competition. Unfortunately he's from Europe, so he doesn't get the credit nor the recognition he deserves. Easily ROY next season IMO.

[doc.end]

No, not really. Upside is Gortat IMO

This. From what I have seen he can't even dominate Eurocup teams. And before someone goes blaming his teammates it is not like he would get a great supporting cast in Toronto to do miracles on bigger level.

And what do you mean ''he can't even dominate Eurocup teams''? Who dominates Euro tournaments anyway? You think NBA prospect should just dominate these sub par teams?

I think you guys don't really understand how Euro hops works...

The guy here already said

Marc Gasol was not only dominant in Europe, he was the next level.

And its just getting weirder...

During his last year in Europe, Marc Gasol averaged 13.6 ppg. (64FG%) 6.6 rpg. 2.5 apg. 1.4 bpg. in 27 min. per game in the Eurocup.

Jonas is currently averaging 10 ppg. (60FG%); 7.7 rpg. 0.8 apg. 1.7bpg. in 23 minutes per game., 12.3 ppg. 10.7 rpg. in 27 mpg. in the second round.

Those are very similar stat lines, VAL numbers looks even better IMO, and he is not a big fat 23 year old, he is 19 and is nowhere close to his prime body and strength.

If Jonas reaches Gortat's level on his prime, that may be alright, but I will be really disappointed... Saying that his ceiling/upside is Marcin Gortat is ridiculous. He is best Euro big prospect in recent history.

You are the one being ridiculous. It would help to notice where I am from before lecturing me on european basketball. Jonas won't be stuck behing Howard or anything so his career should evolve quicker but really (to not sound "ridiculous") he is very unlikely to say the least to be better than Gortat. Age is not a skill, that's a condition. Being young and good doesn't meant you'll get much much better with age.

I don't care about numbers, those won't translate to NBA and are almost irrelevant. You better watch him playing. I did. For someone who is supposed to dominate NBA in nine months he is a no-show. That's nothing against him rather a knock against that ridiculous OP's statement. He is not bad, his physical abilities are there but he does not have an impact you would expect. That's ok, he can still succeed in NBA and even if he doesn't it wasn't a bad decision from Raptors as they weren't going nowhere at that time anyway. He is a top 5 pick so he is guaranteed to get his chances and have a name because of that. On the other hand being best euro prospect for a long time doesn't win games.

[doc.end]

Don't get me wrong I like Gortat. I just don't see any idication why Jonas should be even better than him. if he becomes a Gortat tier center, it was a good pick. Although some would even call him bust in that scenario because of the hype. He may not adjust so well and become lesser player than Gortat, I guess you can never rule out a failure and there are busts every year. We all naturally see prospect as chances to become something special replacing stars of previous generations, or at least becoming a solid starter, key bench players and solid rotation guys later in the draft. Like someone has to be there to become one of the prominent players of the new generation. Once the team picks one we hope for the best and unless we have a real reason to dislike the player we become optimists till proven otherwise. Most of the time players are what they are and should be viewed that way - not many develop skills/abilities they don't have at least a bit. It is natural to overlook some signs and hope for the jackpot, rarely it pays off. We all do that, I just have no reason to do that in case of Jonas.

[doc.end]

From what I have seen he can't even dominate Eurocup teams. And before someone goes blaming his teammates it is not like he would get a great supporting cast in Toronto to do miracles on bigger level.

That's just stupid, especially coming from a european fan. A handful of NCAA prospects in basketball history could dominate against professionals. 18-19 years old kids doesn't dominate professionals, whether it be Euroleague, or Eurocup. Not to mention, in Europe, a core player usually plays like 25-26 (max. 28-30) minutes, a young big even less. He shot 66% against the best european teams in the summer, he showed he can score in every level, and his body is nowhere near where it will be in a couple of years. That "he doesn't even dominate against european competition" is an extremely dumb argument, and we saw he it turned out with Rubio.

What was the title of this thread again? Got it?

[C-izMe]

Jonas will be the next Gortat. Book it. (this is a compliment.)

[lobosloboslobos]

I don't claim to know the future but as a Raps fan i do have hope.

I can however weigh arguments and it seems to me that there are three posts directly above mine that say a lot without saying much. .doc your statement that Marc Gasol was on a whole other level than Jonas was wholly refuted above and all this other rambling stuff above adds nothing to the conversation other than you insisting that you know better than everyone else.

I can also use my eyes and Mufasa's trip about JV not having strength seems silly to me as he is a very big and wide boy for a 19 year old. That he is afraid of contact is ridiculous too from what I have seen. Dude loves to mix it up in close.

I for one am very much looking forward to next year. (see my sig!)

[ATLTimekeeper]

From what I have seen he can't even dominate Eurocup teams. And before someone goes blaming his teammates it is not like he would get a great supporting cast in Toronto to do miracles on bigger level.

That's just stupid, especially coming from a european fan. A handful of NCAA prospects in basketball history could dominate against professionals. 18-19 years old kids doesn't dominate professionals, whether it be Euroleague, or Eurocup. Not to mention, in Europe, a core player usually plays like 25-26 (max. 28-30) minutes, a young big even less. He shot 66% against the best european teams in the summer, he showed he can score in every level, and his body is nowhere near where it will be in a couple of years. That "he doesn't even dominate against european competition" is an extremely dumb argument, and we saw he it turned out with Rubio.

What was the title of this thread again? Got it?

I think the OP's thread title was over the top just like your "no show" statement is over the top or perhaps based on a limited sample size. Right now you're not really giving a tangible argument as to why you think he won't be anything special. Not only that, but you've claimed that you've seen him play more than a Lithuanian . If that's true, then good on you.

[sca]

This. From what I have seen he can't even dominate Eurocup teams. And before someone goes blaming his teammates it is not like he would get a great supporting cast in Toronto to do miracles on bigger level.

And what do you mean ''he can't even dominate Eurocup teams''? Who dominates Euro tournaments anyway? You think NBA prospect should just dominate these sub par teams?

I think you guys don't really understand how Euro hops works...

The guy here already said

Marc Gasol was not only dominant in Europe, he was the next level.

And its just getting weirder...

During his last year in Europe, Marc Gasol averaged 13.6 ppg. (64FG%) 6.6 rpg. 2.5 apg. 1.4 bpg. in 27 min. per game in the Eurocup.

Jonas is currently averaging 10 ppg. (60FG%); 7.7 rpg. 0.8 apg. 1.7bpg. in 23 minutes per game., 12.3 ppg. 10.7 rpg. in 27 mpg. in the second round.

Those are very similar stat lines, VAL numbers looks even better IMO, and he is not a big fat 23 year old, he is 19 and is nowhere close to his prime body and strength.

If Jonas reaches Gortat's level on his prime, that may be alright, but I will be really disappointed... Saying that his ceiling/upside is Marcin Gortat is ridiculous. He is best Euro big prospect in recent history.

You are the one being ridiculous. It would help to notice where I am from before lecturing me on european basketball. Jonas won't be stuck behing Howard or anything so his career should evolve quicker but really (to not sound "ridiculous") he is very unlikely to say the least to be better than Gortat. Age is not a skill, that's a condition. Being young and good doesn't meant you'll get much much better with age.

I don't care about numbers, those won't translate to NBA and are almost irrelevant. You better watch him playing. I did. For someone who is supposed to dominate NBA in nine months he is a no-show. That's nothing against him rather a knock against that ridiculous OP's statement. He is not bad, his physical abilities are there but he does not have an impact you would expect. That's ok, he can still succeed in NBA and even if he doesn't it wasn't a bad decision from Raptors as they weren't going nowhere at that time anyway. He is a top 5 pick so he is guaranteed to get his chances and have a name because of that. On the other hand being best euro prospect for a long time doesn't win games.

Sorry but making a statement such as "he can't even dominate Eurocup teams" is stupid, no matter what you actually meant by saying it or how you try to spin it now. Who the hell dominates European competitions, anyway?

Jonas is 19 years old right now. He'll be 20 when he starts playing in the NBA. Tell me who the **** argues that he'll dominate the league right away. Nobody's comparing current Val with current Gortat. You just don't seem to understand how ridiculous you sound. None of you have managed to actually show us why Val will never be able to pass current Gortat's level. And you'll never do, because you don't have any arguments and you just like hating on the kid. Admit it.

edit: Gortat is actually a very, very good player and I'd be happy if Val reaches his level. But to say his ceiling is Gortat without putting any arguments is really, really stupid because he's better now than Gortat was his age.

[andyo]

I never said his ceiling is Krstic

I said his ceiling is Gortat months before last year's draft

His ceiling is higher than Gortat but projecting as good as Gortat is now is not a bad comparison. Gortat is a very good and underrated center.

However, weren't you the same guy that wanted Kanter in the draft? People were calling shades of Aruajo way before he even stepped on the floor. Can't say they were wrong.

[KING CB4]

He won't be that good imo.