Magic Want A Carmelo Like Trade

[richboy]

Centers in this league with legitimate post game are hard to find. Lopez is 1. How many others?

Lopez weakness is rebounding. That is fine but realize they use to say the same thing about Pau Gasol.

not true

Two years ago Lopez averaged 8 rebounds a game. I was in many debates back in the day where people were saying Pau Gasol can't rebound. The reality is Pau Gasol in Memphis was a 8 rebound per game guy.

Legitimate footwork maybe. Legitimate post game? If Lopez had legitimate post game he'd be more dominant.

...and you do realize Orlando is more Memphis than Lakers right?

This is not to say Orlando can't get a steal with Lopez but it's not because Lopez is hard to replace but because Lopez ends up being a better superstar than Dwight Howard. If Lopez pans out any less, Orlando is stuck in mediocrity even if it's playoff mediocrity.

I don't get the point. Realize if they don't get Lopez then Big Baby is starting at Center for the Magic.

End of discussion unless you have a better player to play center for them.

[Jordan-esque]

@ChrisMannixSI

Oklahoma City is not in the Dwight Howard sweepstakes. Not giving up Harden/Ibaka. Not happening.

https://twitter.com/#!/ChrisMannixSI/st ... 3435435008

[richboy]

OkC must be planning om having thr biggest payroll in the league. Ibaka and Harden might be worth 24 million combined per year. Might be smarter to combine them for 1 Dwight. Throw in Perkins as well.

[Hon-essim]

I don't get the point. Realize if they don't get Lopez then Big Baby is starting at Center for the Magic.

End of discussion unless you have a better player to play center for them.

It depends on which point you're talking about.

If it's Orlando finally having a roster that would tank even with a head coach like SVG under BBD then that's great news versus getting Brook which SVG could still somehow convert into a playoff piece that can't win anything.

If it's about Brook's footwork versus his post game, a good traditional C is always hard to replace especially for a shooting team because it creates space that fits in with the other rosters. That's where the post game becomes valuable because footwork can open up the game for an individual but it doesn't create the style to open up the game for a shooting centric team as bad as Orlando is.

Hakeem is actually the most extreme example of this. As great as Hakeem was, he couldn't win more championships because his footwork doesn't create much for his teammates. Hakeem has a hell of a talent into combining his footwork with his post game though and that's able to mess up team defense and it didn't matter that Hakeem was basically playing a post-up sg style.

If Brook improves his post game, Orlando solves two of their key issue. Someone who can create and draw the defense away from the shooters and someone like Hakeem who still has the footwork to stretch and expose the paint. If Brook doesn't improve on that aspect then all Brook's footwork does is the same value Gasol brought to Memphis.

They become a tough team but with no place that can improve and one that relies their future roster being tailored around Brook setting aside lucking out on a superstar.

[humblebum]

The Nets would literally trade anyone except Deron to get dwight. They would trade all their assets if it meant getting him. They want to win but they want to market the Brooklyn Nets more. They know that with Deron and Dwight alone, they'll be sold out every night and the team will become instantly profitable.

thing is...why would nj blow up their roster to get a player who all indications suggests wants to go to nj anyways. He can just sign in the offseason and get to play with brooks and lopez and their lottery pick too. i dont see why trading for him now makes sense. If he doesnt want to go to NJ then trading for him wont keep him there...he'll just bolt. But if he does want to go to nj then he'll go there in the offseason regardless. Why trade assests that are best served to entice him to come to Brooklyn along side Deron?

Fear. The Magic need the Lakers to be in the mix because they would want to convince teams like NJ that Dwight might be traded there. You might think Dwight might resign with the Lakers. Same with the Bulls. Same with OKC. You are correct. If I was Dwight I would say I'm opting out no matter who trades for me. Next July 1 show me what team is in position for winning. That is the one I'll sign with. If NJ can go into next year with Dwight, Deron, Brooks, Lopez, and top pick. That is second best team in the league. Watching Dwight destroy Chicago last night if he had that kind of talent around him they are a instant 60 plus win team and title contender.

Don't matter to me with Lopez. Lopez has had 2 fluke injuries. He scored 38 points against Dallas right before the last. Before this year he was pretty much healthy. Look at the Magic roster. We built the team around a center. It is the hardest position to fill in the league. Lopez is a 20 point center.

I love Rondo but the PG position is the easiest to fill in the league right now.

Even if the Jersey pick became less if Dwight is traded to them we still be in position to get a good player. I would be very surprised if Dwight is traded to NJ and they keep that pick. They just gave up a lottery pick just to get Deron. It would make no sense to not do it for Dwight and risk loosing Deron too.

I just don't think the Celtics have a package that can get even close to Dwight. If the Celtics wanted to go after Deron then they could land Dwight as a free agent. The reality is Dwight and Deron are going to find a way to play with each other most likely. If the Nets were willing to do Rondo/Allen/Pick for Deron. Then I think Dwight would go Boston as a free agent. I don't think Boston has a deal that Orlando would love for Dwight. JJJ has barely played. Rondo has an attitude. Even if not the case he seems pretty high maintenance.

You want to show me that your serious about getting Dwight then use Paul Pierce to make the package stronger. Something like Pierce to the Lakers, Gasol to Orlando. We give you back Big Baby and throw in Hedo. That would be a deal to get people excited. Rondo and Gasol coming in. Maybe I could sell that. Right now I can't imagine trying to sell Magic fans we traded Dwight for Rondo and a late round rookie who hasn't played and future picks. They rather take there chances with free agency.

The problem is this thing is just set up for Brooklyn. Boston wouldn't do this deal because there no guarantee that Dwight going to stay with them. That not going to get guaranteed unless you could get Deron to come to Boston. That isn't likely to happen because if Dwight is traded to Boston then Deron is likely going to the Lakers in a trade right after. NJ has no reason to trade Deron to Boston because they know as long as they have Deron there in good shape to get Dwight. NJ carries all the cards and that only changes if Dwight is traded to a team like OKC or Chicago. I can't even put the Lakers in that group because Dwight doesn't want to go to the Lakers if they trade Gasol to get him. The reason for that is because they need Gasol to do the Deron trade.

Interesting.

Two things that I think on Howard getting traded: I don't believe that teams, given the new cap restrictions are going to be willing to take Hedo + another bad contract like Duhon or Davis (his deal is TERRIBLE, coming from a Celtics fan). But you might find a team that's willing to take back Hedo or another contract like Duhon/Meer.

I just don't see how a team that's going into a rebuild and already has a ton of bad deals (Davis, Meer, Hedo, Richardson, Duhon plus paying for Gilbert's amnesty) is going to be interested in sinking near max dollars on an all offense no defense/rebounding center in Lopez. As soon as he's signed he becomes another bad contract on the Magic books. So again, his value is greatly greatly diminished by his RFA status. His contract situation is a net negative for a team like Orlando.

When ranking all the assets being potentially on the table from NJ or Boston I'd say that, depending on where the NJ pick lands, it's either the NJ pick or Rondo as the best asset. Then you'd have the Houston and Boston/LAC firsts all being in that same value range. Than Marshon, Jajuan Johnson in that next tier of value. Then you have expiring contracts (whichever team takes back the worse contract wins... and then you have Lopez, Bass... guys who are going to be getting overpaid in FA.

It's really pretty close, especially if that pick lands in that 7-9 range.

Are you really comparing Lopez and Bass. Lopez is a 20 point per game scorer. Yeah he doesn't rebound. He is a skilled 23 year old 7 footer. 90% of the teams don't have a center even as good as him. You can get a PF to rebound. Bass is a journeyman PF with no trade value except maybe to help a contending team off the bench.

JJJ has to play before I give him Marshon Brooks value. They might have been drafted next to each other but right now that is the end of it. Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams was drafted right next to each other but it don't mean they have comparable trade value.

Right now your saying it a good deal to trade the second best player in the league for Rondo and a couple of picks. NJ is offering Lopez is still a borderline all-star. One of the better rookies in the league this year. Potential a top 5 pick. If I'm really tough I might be able to get Kris Humpries from them too. It isn't even close.

I'm comparing Lopez and Bass in the respect that they'll both likely be overpaid based on their ability to impact games this offseason. Lopez is a complete liability on defense and rebounding. That's a pretty big negative when you're looking at being held over the fire in a restricted free agency that will begin almost right after you acquire him.

Lopez on a rookie scale deal is fine because as a seven footer he can score you baskets inside. But on a 40 or 50 million dollar deal? His lack of defense and rebounding become huge negatives. His value in a deal really isn't great because the Magic will be locked into expensive mediocrity, which is the worst place to be in the NBA. Even at 23 we all know what type of player Lopez is and though what he brings to the table is valuable to an extent it's almost a guarantee that he'll be an albatross contract immediately.

The Nets package is great if that pick lands in the top five. What if that pick lands at #9 with the Nets getting on a hot streak with Deron and Dwight?

Outside of the picks you're talking about a nice piece in Brooks, an expiring contract in Humpries, a soft no defense/rebounding and soon to be overpaid big in Lopez. That's really not a great haul for the best Center in the game.

With Rondo you get a dynamic All Star who's a much better centerpiece than Lopez. The picks are not quite as good but they will land some pretty good players in this deep draft. JaJuan Johnson isn't on Marshon's level but he's talented and inexpensive at the PF spot. And the Celtics can take a bad contract back as well.

The Nets offer might be in the lead but it's really not a great package, which is why I don't think that Howard will be dealt at the deadline. If he does it will be a closer competition than people seem to be assuming.

[Ice Trae]

D12 for Marvin, Horford, Teague + picks

[humblebum]

Centers in this league with legitimate post game are hard to find. Lopez is 1. How many others?

Lopez weakness is rebounding. That is fine but realize they use to say the same thing about Pau Gasol.

not true

Two years ago Lopez averaged 8 rebounds a game. I was in many debates back in the day where people were saying Pau Gasol can't rebound. The reality is Pau Gasol in Memphis was a 8 rebound per game guy.

Legitimate footwork maybe. Legitimate post game? If Lopez had legitimate post game he'd be more dominant.

...and you do realize Orlando is more Memphis than Lakers right?

This is not to say Orlando can't get a steal with Lopez but it's not because Lopez is hard to replace but because Lopez ends up being a better superstar than Dwight Howard. If Lopez pans out any less, Orlando is stuck in mediocrity even if it's playoff mediocrity.

I don't get the point. Realize if they don't get Lopez then Big Baby is starting at Center for the Magic.

End of discussion unless you have a better player to play center for them.

Playing Baby at Center would be GREAT for improving the position of Orlando's draft pick! Haha...

Looking at it realistically Lopez just isn't that good. He's a guy who's essentially useless if he's not scoring. Terrible on the boards, terrible defensively and though his offense is good it's not like you can build an offense around his skills. He's not good enough to be a top 2 player on a winning team yet he'll be paid like one this offseason.

Lopez isn't close to being equal value for D. Howard. He's not even good enough to get a guy like Monta or Rondo in a straight up trade. That's pretty rare for a seven footer who can score you 20 to not have the trade value to land somebody like Monta. There are good reasons for that being the case.

[turtlesnjoi]

Wanting a 'Carmelo like' haul for Dwight isn't saying much considering the Nuggets didn't get jack outside of Gallo.

[tiderulz]

D12 for Marvin, Horford, Teague + picks

why would Orlando do this? Marvins horrible contract, Horford who is a good, but not great player, Teague who is inconsistent. Picks would be late. Orlando would be better off Dwight leaving, and ride out some bad contracts with bad records and high picks.