Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league?

Moderators: Clav, bwgood77, bisme37, zimpy27, KingDavid, cupcakesnake, Dirk, Domejandro, ken6199, infinite11285

Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league?

Yes, Kobe Bryant was the best player in the league for at least one season.
122
64%
No, Kobe Bryant was never the best player in the league in any season.
68
36%
 
Total votes: 190

MannyRam99
Banned User
Posts: 3,321
And1: 33
Joined: Apr 28, 2012

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#101 » by MannyRam99 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:55 pm

Illmatic21 wrote:
Lightning25 wrote:
Illmatic21 wrote:0A-0B means from the season beginning in year 0A, to the season ending in year 0B.

I've usually seen people refer to Kobe's best seasons from 06-08 so I was just curious. I'm assuming many others are like me though which is why people are wondering why they are seeing 05 especially when it was an off-year for Kobe.

Nah man, you still don't get it. '04 was his off year (the season beginning in '04 aka 2004-2005).

Why would you refer to a season by the year it ends in? 2005-2006 = '05, because 2005 was when one began playing games that counted towards the 2005-2006 season.

I still can't believe this has to be explained in detail.
Lightning25
Banned User
Posts: 1,309
And1: 29
Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Location: The Windy City

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#102 » by Lightning25 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:55 pm

Illmatic21 wrote:
Lightning25 wrote:
Illmatic21 wrote:0A-0B means from the season beginning in year 0A, to the season ending in year 0B.

I've usually seen people refer to Kobe's best seasons from 06-08 so I was just curious. I'm assuming many others are like me though which is why people are wondering why they are seeing 05 especially when it was an off-year for Kobe.

Nah man, you still don't get it. '04 was his off year (the season beginning in '04 aka 2004-2005).

Why would you refer to a season by the year it ends in? 2005-2006 = '05, because 2005 was when one began playing games that counted towards the 2005-2006 season.

I said usually people don't do that though. They usually say Kobe was the best from 06-08/09 and they refer the 06 season the 05-06 season. I know what you meant, I am just saying it is not that common which is why some people were confused in this thread.
Ayt
RealGM
Posts: 59,451
And1: 15,214
Joined: Jun 27, 2005

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#103 » by Ayt » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:05 pm

MannyRam99 wrote:
Illmatic21 wrote:
Lightning25 wrote:I've usually seen people refer to Kobe's best seasons from 06-08 so I was just curious. I'm assuming many others are like me though which is why people are wondering why they are seeing 05 especially when it was an off-year for Kobe.

Nah man, you still don't get it. '04 was his off year (the season beginning in '04 aka 2004-2005).

Why would you refer to a season by the year it ends in? 2005-2006 = '05, because 2005 was when one began playing games that counted towards the 2005-2006 season.

I still can't believe this has to be explained in detail.


You are wrong. It is standard to refer to a season in the NBA by the year in which it ended.

Miami are the 2012 champs. LeBron was the 2012 MVP. Kobe made the 2012 All-Star game.
MannyRam99
Banned User
Posts: 3,321
And1: 33
Joined: Apr 28, 2012

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#104 » by MannyRam99 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:11 pm

Ayt wrote:You are wrong. It is standard to refer to a season in the NBA by the year in which it ended.

Miami are the 2012 champs. LeBron was the 2012 MVP. Kobe made the 2012 All-Star game.

its not the same when you're discussing players peaks/primes and what not, some like to say...

" _____ was the best from 0(beginning of season in which era started) to 0(end of season in which the era ended)"
Lightning25
Banned User
Posts: 1,309
And1: 29
Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Location: The Windy City

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#105 » by Lightning25 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:06 am

Best player from 2000-2010 to me.

2000 - Shaq
2001 - Shaq
2002 - Shaq
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Garnett
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe/LeBron - slight favor for LeBron
2010 - LeBron
User avatar
Bertrob
RealGM
Posts: 27,394
And1: 8,823
Joined: Sep 08, 2011
Location: Boognish

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#106 » by Bertrob » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:09 am

Lightning25 wrote:2007 - Kobe


I agree with your list for the most part but I cannot, for the life of me, see how you can think this
Please explain
Lightning25
Banned User
Posts: 1,309
And1: 29
Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Location: The Windy City

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#107 » by Lightning25 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:12 am

bertrob wrote:
I agree with your list for the most part but I cannot, for the life of me, see how you can think this
Please explain

Nitro's post from earlier about Kobe and his '07 season should do the trick.


Nitro1118 wrote:05-08 he was the best player in the league IMO, with 06-07 being his best season. That season he had 10 games scoring over 50pts which is insane...basically, every 8 games he dropped over 50. That was also his most efficient year scoring the ball, with a TS% of over .580. That's huge for Kobe, as for the last 8-9 years he's had IMO the most polished, versatile set of weapons scoring the basketball the league has ever seen. However, what has killed him at times in the past was his efficiency (due to shot selection), so back in 06-07 when he still had most of his athleticism in-tact and was done adding every type of move in the book to his arsenal, he started picking and choosing his spots better than the previous seasson when he averaged 35PPG. Therefor, he was as explosive and unstoppable scoring the ball as I have ever seen anyone post-Jordan (02-03 T-Mac and current Durant and LeBron aren't far behind, though). He had the talent, skills and moves to counter every single defense thrown at him, and he had that Jordan-like killer instinct to bury teams by himself with his scoring. Occasionally, he would shoot himself and his team out of games as a result, but in 06-07 him winning his team games by obliterating the other team was a far more common occurance.

Also, that season he really started learning how to become a better leader. He became a better and more voal teammate off the court, more of a teacher on the court (as opposed to simply chewing people out like he did in the past), and he started to trust his teammates. As a result, he got a LOT more out of that awful roster of role players than anyone could have predicted.

Like virtually every season, Kobe averaged over 5 rebounds and assists, and compared to his 05-06 campaign he did put in a considerably greater amount of effort into his defense on a nightly basis.

In 06-07 Wade missed a lot of games due to injury, LeBron's jumper was still iffy as was his defense, KG was starting to decline and couldn't get his team a playoff birth, Dirk's game wasn't as well-rounded as Kobe's and he was completely shutdown in the playoffs as the 8th seeded Warriors took down his Mavs, and Duncan started to decline and didn't need to play like a superstar every single night with the emergence of Manu and Parker. Therefor, that season Kobe was without a doubt the best player in the league IMO. 05-06 and 07-08 he was also the best player in the league, but those seasons you could make stronger cases for some of his individual competition.


It sums it up perfectly. Duncan has the best argument over Kobe in '07 though but I'm still rolling with Kobe that season.
HurricaneKid
General Manager
Posts: 8,093
And1: 5,052
Joined: Jul 13, 2010
Location: Sconnie Nation
 

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#108 » by HurricaneKid » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:16 am

parapooper wrote:most seasons top3 in WS:
1. Wilt Chamberlain 11
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 11
Michael Jordan 11
4. Oscar Robertson 8
Karl Malone 8
6. LeBron James 7
7. Larry Bird 6
Dirk Nowitzki 6
9. Tim Duncan 5
Magic Johnson 5
Shaquille O'Neal 5
David Robinson 5
....
....
....
??? Kobe Bryant 0


most seasons top3 in Player Efficiency Rating:
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 12
2. Shaquille O'Neal 11
3. Michael Jordan 10
Wilt Chamberlain 10
5. Jerry West 9
6. Oscar Robertson 8
7. Bob Pettit 7
David Robinson 7
Karl Malone 7
10. LeBron James 6
Larry Bird 6
...
...
?? Kobe Bryant 1

most seasons leading the league in PER:
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 9
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 8
3. Michael Jordan* 7
4. Shaquille O'Neal 5
LeBron James 5
6. Bob Pettit* 4
7. George Mikan* 3
David Robinson* 3
9. Jerry West* 2
Larry Bird* 2
Kevin Garnett 2
Moses Malone* 2
...
...
??? Kobe Bryant 0


If you want to see a more damning stat take a look at this one: How many times has Kobe been in the top 2 in PLAYOFF PER? I mean the whole thing is that he is better in the playoffs right? Except thats not it either. He has never been in the top two in PLAYOFF PER either.

Kobe is an all-time great but this shows what a lot of us are saying. While he played at a remarkable level for an incredible period of time, at his very best he was never the best player in the league.

Kobe fans seem to point to 05-06 through 07-08 as his peak years. Yet those are the years he led his team to 7th place finishes (twice) and a 57 win team in 08 when he won the MVP.

The year he won the MVP he was 28.3/6.3/5.4 on .459. The same year LeBron was 30.0/7.9/7.2 on .484 and CP3 led the league in WS by 2+. At the end of the day LBJ had 29.1PER, CP3 had 28.3 and Kobe finished 8th right between Manu and Bosh. In LeBron's loss against the Celtics that year Cle not only took them to a G7 but outscored them in the series. LeBron's 45 points in game 7 weren't enough. But it was a far better showing than Kobe's deciding game 6 when he was a team worst -35 in +/- with an O rating of 79 and a D rating of 141.
fishnc wrote:If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, Bin Laden, and LeBron, I would shoot LeBron twice.
starvinmarvin17
Banned User
Posts: 1,688
And1: 23
Joined: Jul 10, 2008

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#109 » by starvinmarvin17 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:23 am

Stunnaboy2K11 wrote:Anyhow I'd say Kobe was the best from 2006-2008 then LeBron took over from there

Agreed especially 06 and 07 kobe was clear cut better then everyone. Bron was close especially because of his playoff run in 07 I believe. In 08 I belie both bron and cp were better individual players. Despite that Kobe playoff run puts him ahead. From 09 and moving Kobe has no case over bron
LUUUKE
Sophomore
Posts: 163
And1: 43
Joined: Aug 18, 2005

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#110 » by LUUUKE » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:23 am

parapooper wrote:Please tell me how Kobe was even remotely close to Wade and Dirk 2006, Duncan 2007, Garnett 2008 and LeBron 2009

And somebody please call an ambulance for the guy who just wrote Kobe was the best player in 2005.


Stop trolling
Image
Jimmy Recard
RealGM
Posts: 10,417
And1: 5,846
Joined: Feb 08, 2009
 

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#111 » by Jimmy Recard » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:24 am

Maybe 06. But LeBron's been better since 07-08
LUUUKE
Sophomore
Posts: 163
And1: 43
Joined: Aug 18, 2005

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#112 » by LUUUKE » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:25 am

And lol at people counting MVP votes by the media
Image
Lightning25
Banned User
Posts: 1,309
And1: 29
Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Location: The Windy City

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#113 » by Lightning25 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:25 am

Jimmy Recard wrote:Maybe 06. But LeBron's been better since 07-08

I don't see much of an argument for Lebron those two seasons. He was just a worse overall player than Kobe was in '07 and '08.
HurricaneKid
General Manager
Posts: 8,093
And1: 5,052
Joined: Jul 13, 2010
Location: Sconnie Nation
 

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#114 » by HurricaneKid » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:28 am

Lightning25 wrote:
bertrob wrote:
I agree with your list for the most part but I cannot, for the life of me, see how you can think this
Please explain

Nitro's post from earlier about Kobe and his '07 season should do the trick.


Nitro1118 wrote:05-08 he was the best player in the league IMO, with 06-07 being his best season. That season he had 10 games scoring over 50pts which is insane...basically, every 8 games he dropped over 50. That was also his most efficient year scoring the ball, with a TS% of over .580. That's huge for Kobe, as for the last 8-9 years he's had IMO the most polished, versatile set of weapons scoring the basketball the league has ever seen. However, what has killed him at times in the past was his efficiency (due to shot selection), so back in 06-07 when he still had most of his athleticism in-tact and was done adding every type of move in the book to his arsenal, he started picking and choosing his spots better than the previous seasson when he averaged 35PPG. Therefor, he was as explosive and unstoppable scoring the ball as I have ever seen anyone post-Jordan (02-03 T-Mac and current Durant and LeBron aren't far behind, though). He had the talent, skills and moves to counter every single defense thrown at him, and he had that Jordan-like killer instinct to bury teams by himself with his scoring. Occasionally, he would shoot himself and his team out of games as a result, but in 06-07 him winning his team games by obliterating the other team was a far more common occurance.

Also, that season he really started learning how to become a better leader. He became a better and more voal teammate off the court, more of a teacher on the court (as opposed to simply chewing people out like he did in the past), and he started to trust his teammates. As a result, he got a LOT more out of that awful roster of role players than anyone could have predicted.

Like virtually every season, Kobe averaged over 5 rebounds and assists, and compared to his 05-06 campaign he did put in a considerably greater amount of effort into his defense on a nightly basis.

In 06-07 Wade missed a lot of games due to injury, LeBron's jumper was still iffy as was his defense, KG was starting to decline and couldn't get his team a playoff birth, Dirk's game wasn't as well-rounded as Kobe's and he was completely shutdown in the playoffs as the 8th seeded Warriors took down his Mavs, and Duncan started to decline and didn't need to play like a superstar every single night with the emergence of Manu and Parker. Therefor, that season Kobe was without a doubt the best player in the league IMO. 05-06 and 07-08 he was also the best player in the league, but those seasons you could make stronger cases for some of his individual competition.


It sums it up perfectly. Duncan has the best argument over Kobe in '07 though but I'm still rolling with Kobe that season.


The Lakers were 42-40 so it really wasn't that much more common an occurance. Has the best player in the NBA EVER played on a .500 team? I doubt it. Meanwhile, Dirk carried his team to 67 wins with Josh Howard as the 2nd best player. And Duncan was an alltime defender that played elite offense and took his team to its 4 championship. Saying Kobe was the best that year, like all others, is more than a stretch.
fishnc wrote:If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, Bin Laden, and LeBron, I would shoot LeBron twice.
MannyRam99
Banned User
Posts: 3,321
And1: 33
Joined: Apr 28, 2012

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#115 » by MannyRam99 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:30 am

Jimmy Recard wrote:Maybe 06. But LeBron's been better since 07-08

:lol:

LeBron was being compared to Melo and Wade back then, Kobe was clearly better than LeBron and the rest.
Lightning25
Banned User
Posts: 1,309
And1: 29
Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Location: The Windy City

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#116 » by Lightning25 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:31 am

HurricaneKid wrote:The Lakers were 42-40 so it really wasn't that much more common an occurance. Has the best player in the NBA EVER played on a .500 team? I doubt it. Meanwhile, Dirk carried his team to 67 wins with Josh Howard as the 2nd best player. And Duncan was an alltime defender that played elite offense and took his team to its 4 championship. Saying Kobe was the best that year, like all others, is more than a stretch.

I didn't know one player was responsible for a team's W/L success. :roll:

Dirk choked in the 1st round and was simply a worse overall player than Kobe was. Can you even name an aspect Dirk was better than Kobe that season?

Duncan didn't go up against much competition in the playoffs and he relied on Parker and Manu more than ever that season compared to every other championship run.

I suggest you just read Nitro's post again.
IG2
Head Coach
Posts: 6,033
And1: 4,518
Joined: Jul 12, 2011

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#117 » by IG2 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:32 am

This is how I see it post-MJ:

1999 Duncan
00-02 Shaq
03-05 Duncan
06-08 Kobe
09-10 LeBron
2011 No one
2012 Still don't think there's a clear-cut choice, but since LeBron won the title, I guess it's him.
MannyRam99
Banned User
Posts: 3,321
And1: 33
Joined: Apr 28, 2012

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#118 » by MannyRam99 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:33 am

HurricaneKid wrote: Has the best player in the NBA EVER played ona .500 team?

are you really this ignorant of NBA history ?

good god, would it kill a you guys to know what you're talking about once in a while ? jeez.

I'll give you a hint, the GOAT had the EXACT same team record and was WIDELY regarded as the best player that season.
lakersin4
Starter
Posts: 2,211
And1: 788
Joined: Dec 22, 2011

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#119 » by lakersin4 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:34 am

Shaq & Lebron were the only players better than Kobe at any point after the 1st ring.. This Wade/Dirk/Timmy talk is hilarious.. When all is said & done, the legacy will speak for itself.. Even at his age with his knees in the condition they are, he was still better than anyone besides Lebron or Durant this season.. None of the guys people try to compare to Kobe will do what he's doing at this age..
HurricaneKid
General Manager
Posts: 8,093
And1: 5,052
Joined: Jul 13, 2010
Location: Sconnie Nation
 

Re: Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league? 

Post#120 » by HurricaneKid » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:34 am

Lightning25 wrote:
Jimmy Recard wrote:Maybe 06. But LeBron's been better since 07-08

I don't see much of an argument for Lebron those two seasons. He was just a worse overall player than Kobe was in ... '08.


Oh good, you were just trolling. No argument?!??

28.3/6.3/5.4 on .459.
30.0/7.9/7.2 on .484.

Christ, the difference between them, 1.7ppg, 1.6reb, 1.8asst would make a guy a decent amount of money.
fishnc wrote:If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, Bin Laden, and LeBron, I would shoot LeBron twice.

Return to The General Board