Will this be John Walls breakout year?

[hands11]

It's much easier to "run a team" if you are a viable threat to sink a 17-foot pull-up jumper. That prevents the defender from going under the high screen and completely opens up the offense. If Wall develops that shot, then everything changes.

I have total respect for Rose's game. It's clear that he is a vastly superior player right now. I'm just saying that this notion that Rose is better in numerous aspects of the game is false. He's really only better in one key aspect of the game: the midrange shot. Wall may never develop that shot, but if he does, there will be very little difference in the effectiveness between Wall and Rose.

I think decision making and leadership are also very important. Things like playing under control and limiting turnovers, learning how to score in the halfcourt instead of just transition, and running offensive sets are also areas where he needs to improve.

There's also the fact that the Wizards have seen no improvement as a franchise since drafting Wall, and actually had a worse winning percentage the last 2 years than they had in the year before they drafted him. It should be very concerning when you see 0 improvement from year 1 to year 2.

Its call rebuilding and tanking for high picks. They are done with that phase now.

This year you will be able to judge Wall more completely. Two years under his belt and finally a mature post player who is a leader for him to run with. He never had that. Wall commented more then once about how once Nene got there, everything changed. Well now they even have Okafor to help anchor the front court. With those two vets, the younger players like Kevin Seraphin, Ves and Booker have players who can help lead by example and help lead on the court. Wall never had a front court like this. And now they also added Beal who if it all goes well, will be his back court partner for the next 10 years.

Its a very different team then anything Wall has had before.

[hands11]

i don't blame wall at all for his team's struggles, there's nothing a young player can do with no structure and no talent around him, i just think it's sad because, as a talent, i do think he is on rose's level. but you don't get these developmental years back, and washington has stunted his ceiling by allowing whatever the **** theyve allowed to go on over there for the past three years to go on. its one thing to be an undertalented, rebuilding squad, but to bet on guys with terrible attitudes, selfish games, horrific bbiqs, no work ethic, and just let a spineless coach phone it in... sad. now hes 22 and is still working on developing a jumper and playing rhythmic, team basketball. i still think he can be the best player on a very, very good team. they need to bring in a new coach, a name that's going to take control, shake things up, impose a defensive system... randy wittman isn't acceptable.

2 years not 3 years.

And it is not unusual for a #1 pick to go to a team that sucks and is rebuilding. That usually takes at least two years.

They did bring in a new coach who has taken control, shook things up and implemented a good/great defensive system. Randy is going to prove to be a lot better then you think.

[SCourGe OF GoD]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw[/youtube]


How can you not think he was gonna be a hybrid of DWade/Drose ? We'll see this year...

[barelyawake]

Bullsnewdynasty, I have zero misconceptions about the 2009-2010 Bulls (Rose's second year) which is what people were comparing. That team was better than the 2011-12 Wiz at every single position, as I said. And it was constructed by adding and trading a decade worth of top ten picks, as I said. Kirk Hinrich (number 7 pick), Noah (number 9 pick), Deng (number 7 pick), Rose (number 1 pick), Brad Miller, "Flip," Warrick, Devin Brown. Deride them all you wish, the fact is they were significantly better than their Wiz counterparts (some remarkably so). And as many have said, the Wiz owner's plan for last year was to tank. By Rose's second year, with so many top picks (and vet leadership) in the stable, Rose was expected to make the playoffs. That would be where the Wiz are today, not last year. Comparing the two teams in their respective evolutions is laughable, and that was my point.

[Brenice]

One huge difference on Rose's early Bulls teams and Wall's Wiz teams is that the players around Rose defended and competed. The players around Wall cumulatively, aren't competitive at all. That's why they had to be broken up. It's not like Nick Young, JaVale McGee, and Andray Blatche don't have physical talent. If you don't have bbiq and don't compete, you can't win. If they didn't break that squad up, Wall most definitely would have jumped to another team ASAP. They got rid of those players and started playing Nene, Seraphin, Booker, and everyone else and the difference was better BBIQ, but they also defended and competed, and the difference was night and day. Wall looked much better on both ends. The team beat OKC and the Lakers. Not that they are consistently on their level, but they competed and beat teams playing for playoff positioning, not tanking games.

Wall will develop into an all-around guard who can score, dish, and defend. He will soon be defending at the highest level for a point guard, on a level with Rondo; offensively, a pass-first point guard who can score near the top level, with the top level being Rose and Westbrook for scoring, next level Wall; assists at the top level being Nash, Rondo and CP3, Wall at the next level. Where he trails is shooting. But he will end up shooting much better than Rondo.

[tosi]

All he has to do is play with the Raptors and he will blow up and leave. That's the secret of having a good year.. you just play on the raptors and then you can go to any other team.

[B-easy]

Wall's rookie season was better than Westbrook's second.

Wall has improved on the smaller things like positing and timing. He has also improved HUGELY on defense, somehow his 3 point percentage dropped from 30% from the prior year which is very confusing (how does that happen?).

Lets be honest when rose and Westbrook were in there second season no one thought they were going to be as good as they were in the third. Lets just wait for the third season.

Some people calling him "bust" are being stupid for no reason and they know it.

[bledredwine]

Wall's rookie season was better than Westbrook's second.

Wall has improved on the smaller things like positing and timing. He has also improved HUGELY on defense, somehow his 3 point percentage dropped from 30% from the prior year which is very confusing (how does that happen?).

Lets be honest when rose and Westbrook were in there second season no one thought they were going to be as good as they were in the third. Lets just wait for the third season.

Some people calling him "bust" are being stupid for no reason and they know it.

The question is,

will Wall ever even have a season as good as Westbrook's 3rd?

[Brovva Blaqq]

Some people calling him "bust" are being stupid for no reason and they know it.

Definitely no bust, but at the same time I don't see him become a superstar or All-star type of player. Maybe the hype was too big.

[bledredwine]

John Wall's being called a bust because he's not even a top 10 PG in the league and there was beyond too much hype over him.

Until he's one of the top 5 PG's in the league,

he is technically a bust (compare him to the other no. 1 picks, you'll see why)

2012 Anthony Davis <---- looks very promising but we don't know yet, was excellent on USA
2011 Kyrie Irving Cleveland Cavaliers <-------turned out to be awesome, already better than Wall
2010 John Wall Washington Wizards <-----------average starting PG in the league (so far)
2009 Blake Griffin Los Angeles Clippers <---------stud
2008 Derrick Rose Chicago Bulls University of Memphis <--------already has an MVP, lead team to 2 1 seeds and ECF
2007 Greg Oden Portland Trail Blazers <---------- played really well, but bust
2006 Andrea Bargnani Toronto Raptors <--------------------similar to Wall, good but underwhelming
2005 Andrew Bogut Milwaukee Bucks University of Utah <--------------top defender and center bar injury...
2004 Dwight Howard Orlando Magic <------------------best center in the league
2003 Lebron James Cleveland Cavs <-------------------hehehehe. Hehehe well hehe yeah.

Out of all of those 9 players (excluding the new Davis), the only players that haven't proven that they can play at the highest level is John Wall, Bargnani, and somewhat Oden.

When you're not a franchise player or at least an all-star as no. 1 pick, that's what you typically call a bust.

And I'm not one to care much about PER + EFF rankings (it's efficiency, but not the way to rank players).... but 18 in PG's is pretty pretty bad.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinge ... osition/pg

Anyway, judged on how they've played so far (not future, I do think Wall will improve), I would easily take

Derrick Rose
Deron Williams
Russell Westbrook
Chris Paul
Rajon Rondo
Tony Parker
Steve Nash
Kyrie Irving (was a rookie)
Stephen Curry
Jeremy Lin (so far)
Ty Lawson
Kyle Lowry
Brandon Jennings
Goran Dragic

over wall. That's 14 PG's. For a #1 pick, Wall's not playing well, at all. That's why people are calling him a bust.

[dangermouse]

Wall's rookie season was better than Westbrook's second.

Wall has improved on the smaller things like positing and timing. He has also improved HUGELY on defense, somehow his 3 point percentage dropped from 30% from the prior year which is very confusing (how does that happen?).

Too much time spent playing pick up games, not enough time working on his game. That falls squarely on his head. Is the Wizards org to blame? No, it was a lockout. Read my post on the first page to see what he is up to now.

Lets be honest when rose and Westbrook were in there second season no one thought they were going to be as good as they were in the third. Lets just wait for the third season.

Some people calling him "bust" are being stupid for no reason and they know it.

I don;t think it is any kind of coincidence that 75% of them are fans of one particular bovine-related team. Rather than enjoy the anticipation of what could amount to be a great rivalry developing between several young PG's in the East, they have to fling poo and write him off.

Looking forward to minor improvements in Wall's game this year, a few more wins, and therefore proving doubters wrong (thats all it will take).

[Brenice]

Wall should never have the scoring stats of Westbrook or Rose. There are different things that Wall does better than all those PG's. They all have flaws but everyone wants to focus on Wall's. I wonder what Wall would look like playing with Durant? Both Rose and Westbrook work better in a shoot-first capacity. Nothing wrong with that. People are judging Wall primarily in that mode as well. But that is not his natural mode. That is a mode he went into unnaturally playing with blockheads.

[Wharton Alum 08]

Wall should never have the scoring stats of Westbrook or Rose. There are different things that Wall does better than all those PG's. They all have flaws but everyone wants to focus on Wall's. I wonder what Wall would look like playing with Durant? Both Rose and Westbrook work better in a shoot-first capacity. Nothing wrong with that. People are judging Wall primarily in that mode as well. But that is not his natural mode. That is a mode he went into unnaturally playing with blockheads.

No offense but your replies are hilarious. Why so many excuses for Wall? He wasn't a particularly great half court player in college and has failed to get much better at in the NBA. He's a really good transition player but you should be more than that as a #1 pick and a PG. He's not a particularly gifted passer he's good on drive and kick but that's about it, he's not a Rondo or Nash type PG that can manipulate a defense without driving to the basket.

He's not a bust but blaming his ineffectiveness on his teammates and saying he changed his style due to who he was playing with is kind of silly, that's the kind of player Wall is you can call him pass first all you want, APG is not indicative of how pass first you are. If you're a ball dominant player your bound to put up solid assist numbers.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

John Wall's being called a bust because he's not even a top 10 PG in the league and there was beyond too much hype over him.

Until he's one of the top 5 PG's in the league,

he is technically a bust (compare him to the other no. 1 picks, you'll see why)

2012 Anthony Davis <---- looks very promising but we don't know yet, was excellent on USA
2011 Kyrie Irving Cleveland Cavaliers <-------turned out to be awesome, already better than Wall
2010 John Wall Washington Wizards <-----------average starting PG in the league (so far)
2009 Blake Griffin Los Angeles Clippers <---------stud
2008 Derrick Rose Chicago Bulls University of Memphis <--------already has an MVP, lead team to 2 1 seeds and ECF
2007 Greg Oden Portland Trail Blazers <---------- played really well, but bust
2006 Andrea Bargnani Toronto Raptors <--------------------similar to Wall, good but underwhelming
2005 Andrew Bogut Milwaukee Bucks University of Utah <--------------top defender and center bar injury...
2004 Dwight Howard Orlando Magic <------------------best center in the league
2003 Lebron James Cleveland Cavs <-------------------hehehehe. Hehehe well hehe yeah.

Out of all of those 9 players (excluding the new Davis), the only players that haven't proven that they can play at the highest level is John Wall, Bargnani, and somewhat Oden.

When you're not a franchise player or at least an all-star as no. 1 pick, that's what you typically call a bust.

And I'm not one to care much about PER + EFF rankings (it's efficiency, but not the way to rank players).... but 18 in PG's is pretty pretty bad.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinge ... osition/pg

Anyway, judged on how they've played so far (not future, I do think Wall will improve), I would easily take

Derrick Rose
Deron Williams
Russell Westbrook
Chris Paul
Rajon Rondo
Tony Parker
Steve Nash
Kyrie Irving (was a rookie)
Stephen Curry
Jeremy Lin (so far)
Ty Lawson
Kyle Lowry
Brandon Jennings
Goran Dragic

over wall. That's 14 PG's. For a #1 pick, Wall's not playing well, at all. That's why people are calling him a bust.

bledredwine, this is a very good summation of why Wall is a bust relative to being picked #1 overall.

To paraphrase Coach Dennis Green, he is who I thought he was even before the draft. I wanted his rights traded on draft day, and I really thought trading his rights for Irving and a pick would have been possible last draft. Now, I think Wall will fare better with a more solid cast of teammates around him. He will become a borderline all star, but IMO is not a superstar by any stretch.

I have seen a lot of players come and go on the Wizards. Flip Saunders got fired, and rightly so, about a year-and-a-half after making Wall team captain from day one. Wall is not a great competitor on the defensive end, even with his high amount of blocks, because he doesn't move his feet particulary well while defending. He has not gotten physical with opponents, but I think with added strength he can and will. When Wall starts to play meaner and when his shot improves a bit, he'll be good but never IMO a superstar.

[Brenice]

No offense but your replies are hilarious. Why so many excuses for Wall? He wasn't a particularly great half court player in college and has failed to get much better at in the NBA. He's a really good transition player but you should be more than that as a #1 pick and a PG. He's not a particularly gifted passer he's good on drive and kick but that's about it, he's not a Rondo or Nash type PG that can manipulate a defense without driving to the basket.

He's not a bust but blaming his ineffectiveness on his teammates and saying he changed his style due to who he was playing with is kind of silly, that's the kind of player Wall is you can call him pass first all you want, APG is not indicative of how pass first you are. If you're a ball dominant player your bound to put up solid assist numbers.

I understand all that. His game was green when he signed with Kentucky. It was green when he was drafted. It is not as green as it was, but it is still not ripe. Now, you tell me when he was "coached"? He is doing a lot for a "green" player who played with blockheads and mediocre at best coaches. Yes, a Kyrie came in more polished. I agree. But Wall still has a ton of potential and is finally in a reasonable environment.

The thing about being the #1 pick, you are the #1 pick depending on who is in your draft. I'm still waiting on other players to find a player from his draft better than him. Durant was not a #1 pick. He was a coin-toss though between him and Oden. There were no coin-tosses in Wall's draft. Everybody is developing. Wall has more potential than most point guards and we'll see. IMO, it is too early to label him a bust based on the dysfunction he was drafted into. Whether you want to admit it or not.

[GhostsOfGil]

Wall should never have the scoring stats of Westbrook or Rose. There are different things that Wall does better than all those PG's. They all have flaws but everyone wants to focus on Wall's. I wonder what Wall would look like playing with Durant? Both Rose and Westbrook work better in a shoot-first capacity. Nothing wrong with that. People are judging Wall primarily in that mode as well. But that is not his natural mode. That is a mode he went into unnaturally playing with blockheads.

No offense but your replies are hilarious. Why so many excuses for Wall? He wasn't a particularly great half court player in college and has failed to get much better at in the NBA. He's a really good transition player but you should be more than that as a #1 pick and a PG. He's not a particularly gifted passer he's good on drive and kick but that's about it, he's not a Rondo or Nash type PG that can manipulate a defense without driving to the basket.

He's not a bust but blaming his ineffectiveness on his teammates and saying he changed his style due to who he was playing with is kind of silly, that's the kind of player Wall is you can call him pass first all you want, APG is not indicative of how pass first you are. If you're a ball dominant player your bound to put up solid assist numbers.

Believe me, Wizards fans are well aware of Wall's flaws. Theres no sugar coating it. However, Brenice is right. There was a serious lack of talent on the Wizards last year which forced Wall to shoulder a much heavier offensive role. Also, your exaggerating his inability to play in the half court. He's not an elite level passer like Rondo or Nash but he's certainly shown flashes of it.

I know its easy to point fingers and say why so many excuses, but lets be real... it's completely justified. Nick Young needed the playbook simplified for him to understand it, Javale Mcgee is incapable of setting solid picks, Jordan Crawford was the NBAs worst shooter in terms of efficiency and volume, Reshard Lewis shot 23% from 3 last year, and the only decent shooter (roger Mason) only averaged 13 minutes per game.

[nate33]

There are some perfectly reasonable "excuses" for Wall's mediocre performance.

As a rookie, he was pretty much what everyone expected: a hyper-athlete with excellent pass-first instincts and a suspect outside shot who still had much to learn about running a team. He was thrust into a the role as primary option and team leader before he was ready and the end result was a productive but inefficient rookie year. I don't think anybody was disappointed in his rookie season. He showed flashes of greatness along with the typical mistakes expected of such a young, inexperienced player. He clearly wasn't a polished PG as a freshman in college, so everyone expected that it would take some time to develop him.

His second season was the disappointing year because he showed very little improvement over his rookie year other than becoming a better defender. The excuse Wall has is the lockout. He had no training camp, no opportunity to work with the coaches, and no experience in how to properly train for an NBA offseason. He spent his offseason traveling the country and playing in a lot of charity games, thinking the more he played, the better he would get. By all accounts, he is a hard worker and a dedicated professional, but that's not enough. You can't just practice hard, you have to practice smart. Without a proper coaching staff and training program, Wall merely reinforced his existing bad habits.

Now that Wall is having an off-season without a lockout so he can communicate with his coaching staff, I expect to see significant improvement in his fundamentals. I consider last year a "lost season" which should be written off. I think of this coming season his second year. If he doesn't show significant improvement this year, then I'll be worried that he is a bust. But for now, I think his relative lack of improvement last year is understandable.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

There are some perfectly reasonable "excuses" for Wall's mediocre performance.

As a rookie, he was pretty much what everyone expected: a hyper-athlete with excellent pass-first instincts and a suspect outside shot who still had much to learn about running a team. He was thrust into a the role as primary option and team leader before he was ready and the end result was a productive but inefficient rookie year. I don't think anybody was disappointed in his rookie season. He showed flashes of greatness along with the typical mistakes expected of such a young, inexperienced player. He clearly wasn't a polished PG as a freshman in college, so everyone expected that it would take some time to develop him.

His second season was the disappointing year because he showed very little improvement over his rookie year other than becoming a better defender. The excuse Wall has is the lockout. He had no training camp, no opportunity to work with the coaches, and no experience in how to properly train for an NBA offseason. He spent his offseason traveling the country and playing in a lot of charity games, thinking the more he played, the better he would get. By all accounts, he is a hard worker and a dedicated professional, but that's not enough. You can't just practice hard, you have to practice smart. Without a proper coaching staff and training program, Wall merely reinforced his existing bad habits.

Now that Wall is having an off-season without a lockout so he can communicate with his coaching staff, I expect to see significant improvement in his fundamentals. I consider last year a "lost season" which should be written off. I think of this coming season his second year. If he doesn't show significant improvement this year, then I'll be worried that he is a bust. But for now, I think his relative lack of improvement last year is understandable.

I think you're on point, nate.

Another reason for optimisim is I believe Bradley Beal will come in day one playing smart--and he can speed John Wall's improvement. I think a very good Wall is worth keeping. Just because I don't think he's a superstar doesn't mean I don't think he can't have bright future. If he plays smarter, not necessarily harder, I think Wall will do well in his role.

[Rerisen]

The excuse Wall has is the lockout.

Maybe he should have been working on the flaws in his game, instead of running it up on lesser competition in Pro-Am games? Because I remember several threads started on this very forum about how him dominating those silly games meant he was primed for a bust out last year.

I remember questioning the value of such games at the time and being blasted as just 'hating' on him by all his fans who were so sure those games were heralding his arrival. Now all of a sudden it was a lost offseason because of a lockout.

[Brenice]

You sound irritated. LOL

Wall is not a bust and will be better than you forcast. Whether you want him to or not. We'll see. The only thing that he has really proven is that he needs work is with his jumpshot. Everything else, he is being underrated. LeBron, as great as he is, is still working on his game. I guess all these point guards are finished products. LOL